Cancelling Henry Kaye

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From: Solomon Louie


Hi all,

I was wondering if there is anyone who could help me out with my problem. I paid a deposit and signed a finance contract with 'investment source' on the 3 July, but am now seriously considering cancelling the contract. However, a complication is that they obtained finance for me (paid directly to INVESTMENTSOURCE) from a group called:

SELECT CAPITAL GROUP PTY LTD
ABN 72 088 884 151
MELBOURNE HOUSE, 316-320 ST KILDA ROAD
ST KILDA VICTORIA 3182

I haven't been able to find a contact number for them (Not listed in www.yellowpages.com.au). I also signed a reciept with INVESTMENTSOURCE that contains an elaborate refund and transfer policy (no easy way out!!):

(A) To qualify for the refund the participant must request the presenter for such a refund before the conclusion of the afternoon tea break on the 3rd day of the seminar.

(B) To qualify for the refund the participant must attend the seminar and all sessions of the seminar prior to the afternoon tea break on the 3rd day of the seminar, and should the participant not attend the above mentioned courses, the participant shall forfeit the deposit and shall not qualify for the refund.

(c) All documents, notes and other materials given the participant (before and during the seminar) must be returned (without having been copied or duplicated) to the presenter upon the participant exercising its right to refund.

(d) Any breach by the participant of this agreement or any other agreement entered into between the participant and the presenter will render the guarantee null and void.

(E) The participant acknowledges that this agreement overides and renders null and void any representations or warranties made by the presenter.

The first of the seminars is to be held this Saturday 21 July. The four day seminar from the 27 July. My faith in this company is completely diminished after last night's episode of MONEY. They were even fairly accurate about the pricing!! Even if I qualify for a refund, how do I know that they will refund the money and cancel the contract with the loan provider?? If anyone can help me out, I would greatly appreciate it.

Balance financed: $14 280
Deposit: $685
Monthly payments (24 mths): $595

Thanks
 
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Reply: 1
From: Paul Zagoridis


Get in touch with the Department of Fair Trading in your state.

The finance should be covered by the CCC so you should have cooling off provisions. Cooling off provisions could also be applicable via various other legislation.

Regards

Paul Zag
Dreamspinner
 
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Reply: 1.1
From: Robert Forward


It was only a matter of time for people started cancelling these seminars after last nights "Money" show, there presenters phones must be running hot today. Not to be rude to anyone but I couldn't stop laughing during the whole article on these "How to make a Million Dollars" seminars.

My question is Solomon, why did you want to do it in the first place. Especially since it cost you so much and you had to take out finance to attend the seminar. Why couldn't you have received this information elsewhere or is it your just didn't know where to look for this information.

Any sort of unsecured/personal finance will only cut deeply into your borrowing capacity for buying IP's. Thus attending these seminars (to my mind) will only cut you further out of the market instead of getting into the market.

I am not advocating nor denigrate any of these seminars but would like to know why people go to them.

Cheers
Robert

PS: I say this as I stand beside my new flash Red Ferrari, only joking...
I'd rather spend my money on something less flash and use the rest of it on an income churning investment.
 
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Reply: 1.1.1
From: Duncan M


>I'd rather spend my money on
>something less flash and use
>the rest of it on an income
>churning investment.

You have the Millionaire Mind!

Duncan
 
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Reply: 1.1.1.1
From: Funky Whuff


Hi Solomon,
I too, was in the same boat as you, attended the Property Genius and the 4-hour event but after much careful consideration didn't think I could afford to pay a premium for information I could probably discover a lot of myself... also realised it is down to the action you take, not how much money you spend that determines your success. Anyway, it goes a little something like this. I too had put down $685 deposit, which you are right, you cannot get back unless you attend all the course up till the third day teabreak. If you do this, you will receive all your money refunded. If you do not wish to attend the full seminar (as I don't - and despite people's ideas to the contrary pulled out way before the Money program :)), then you have to forfeit your $685 deposit and all your monthly repayments will be refunded in full (the ones that have already been taken out). I left my deposit as it would cost me nearly that much to travel to Sydney and get accom for the four days and I see that it is worth paying that anyway for teh information I have already received... despite having to return the course notes.
Anyway, that is my experience, any questions email me at [email protected]
Good luck
Liz
 
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Reply: 2
From: David U


Hi Solomon

320 St Kilda Rd is a newly renovated block of units. I should know I signed a rental lease there last week!!! They previously were offices, but obviously are no longer. LJ Hooker are dealing with the residential leases and may have some info re this. Their number is (03)3662 4411

Hope this helps

Regards

David U
 
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Reply: 1.1.1.2.1
From: O B


Guys,if your thinking about doing seminars in future run it by the regulars on this site FIRST!!.They will save you a lot of heartbreak and money.
 
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Reply: 1.1.1.2.1.1
From: O B


Oh and I forgot BEWARE of ANYBODY that has something to gain from your investment.There are lots of sharks out there and a few nice people as well(many on this site).
 
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Reply: 3
From: Mr S


Contact the Dept of Fair Trading and the Australian Securities Commission. Find out where you stand and what you must do.

Then demand a refund in writing using both Dept's as a back up.

The question has to be asked... were you under duress when you were signing the contract and did you understand it.

If still not successful... Go to A Current Affair.

Normally the more noise you make the faster the problem is fixed.
 
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Reply: 1.2
From: Lan Diep


Hi Solomon and others

I must confess I am also in the same boat. However I have not yet given my financial details to the financier to fund the program.

I, too watched the money program! This morning I received a phone call from investment source asking me why I haven't sent in my pay slips for financing...I didn't understand why they wanted to process the financing before I agreed to continue with the program. It was my intention of going to the seminar and only continuing if I was satisfied with what I learnt and could learn! Hence I took advantage of the money back guarantee.

I will be attending the Sydney seminar as per the contract. I must attend all seminars - to qualify for the refund, as long as I ask for the refund before the afternoon tea break on the 3rd day..

However I am unsure whether they will refund $685, as I noticed there was an application fee of $125 on the contract.

Despite everything I haven't regretted anything, because I have learnt so much. Making the decision to attend the seminars have brought me to here..I am so glad I went out and brought Jan Somers books, of which investment source recommended, so I suppose I can thank them for that. Her books have taught me there is no easy way to get rich - It's a lot of hard work (work that I can undertake myself) and personal financial sacrifices!

I hope to meet you there and we can discuss our 'exit' strategy then :)

Lan
 
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Reply: 3.1
From: Anonymous


Solomon,
If you made the mistake of sighing up for the course in haste, I would like to suggest that you do not pull out of the course in haste all because of a television program that may be biased. If Henry Kaye wanted to advertise during their commercial breaks, do you think they would knock him back? I doubt it. I did not watch the program, but did read the story on their web site after you posted it here. I have noticed that MLC(fund managers etc) appears quite prominently on the "money" website with investment advice. Could it be possible that it is in their interests to have people invest their money with managed funds rather than empower them with the knowledge to do it themselves?
These are the type of questions you should ask yourself before you pull out. I too am going to Sydney end of July, and I would like to reassure you that I have contacted both the Office of Fair Trading and ASIC.
ASIC informed me that because it relates to real estate, the Office of Fair Trading would be handling it. As of a few weeks ago, the Office said that they were aware of him, but they had nothing on Henry Kaye, however they would investigate any complaints(none as yet). They suggested I write down exactly what I have and will pay and the exact copy of the refund terms and any copies of receipts etc. They will them keep my records on file just in case they have reason to investigate him in the future as a result of any similar complaints or reports.
The moral here is, if you have gained anything from the Henry Kaye experience, it is do do your own due diligence on every body and every thing. Do not take any information given to you for granted. Not even mine. And especially not the opinion of a television program. I have not come across many people that do not have their own agenda. Including people on this forum. In my own experiences in life and business, often the ones that criticize are the ones that are ignorant of the topic, or have something at stake. You have nothing to lose by attending the seminar and making your own decision as the information is presented to you.
Good luck with any decision you take.

Topaz
 
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Reply: 3.2
From: Colin Mills


What was I saying on this site just last week about those ridiculous over-priced seminars! Obviously Paul Clitheroe agrees! Of course due to the over the top libel laws in this country he could not speak his mind. So he made a mockery of the whole shoddy get rich quick seminar industry by suggesting the only way you could achieve that goal was to run your own seminar!
I loved the closing segment where he stood next to the Ferrari!!! I'm sure everybody on this site knows EXACTLY who he was poking fun at! That knucklehead always appears standing next to some flash car in his pathetic ads. Hopefully the industry will finally die off. Quicker the better - there are enough scam merchants without this bunch of rogues.
 
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Reply: 3.1.1
From: Lan Diep


In reply to Topaz

Here Here!
 
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Eric Snow has no status in here..

Reply: 3.2.1
From: Scott Marshall


I just ignore ALL the fools above. Oh and remember, when you pull out of Kayes $15,000 seminar, you still have to get back, its not a return ticket I bet. It will cost less than $15,000 to get back, while visiting Thailand, Russia, USA, Antarctica.....
 
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Reply: 1.1.1.3
From: Terry Avery


Actually he doesn't have the Millionaire Mind as defined by the book of the
same name. Millionaires go for value not flash. It is the ones who are
perpetually struggling to maintain the image lifestyle that drive Ferraris
and who never make it to the ranks of the rich because they waste their
money on toys. But each to his own.
 
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Reply: 1.1.2
From: Solomon Louie


Thanks for the advice!! I was sucked into their scam because I didn't really know much about property investment, just the basics (negative gearing, etc). I never thought that making a 3000% return was possible with property investment (Henry Kaye says so!!). I guess returns like that make almost any other investment look pale in comparison, and was an effective lure. Sad story is that this isn't the first time I've been sucked into a scam. Remember the emus investments?? $12000 down the drain!!!
 
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Reply: 3.1.2
From: Solomon Louie


You're right Topaz, the MONEY program are biased to some extent. They have a vested interest in the continued growth of the financial services sector, as they are heavily financed by at least one financial services group. This would suggest that whilst they promote financial independence, they would rather it be through conventional means and through the services that a financial planner could provide, rather than by these promoters whom left unchecked and unhindered could mean bad news for the industry. Thankyou for the advice everyone, I'm not quite as panicked as this morning, i guess the reason i was in such a state was because INVESTMENTSOURCE likes to keep people in the dark. I had a whole bunch of questions to ask in the free consultation, and they refused to answer any of them!!! Still seems like a scam. The info they give might be legit, but from what I've been reading INVESTMENT INSTITUTE is better value for $$$.
 
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Reply: 1.1.2.1
From: Terry Avery


What Henry Kaye says is true. You can make 3,000%. What you have to bear in
mind is the following:

If you invest $1 and make $2 then you have made 100%
If you invest $1 and make $11 then you have made 1,000%
If you invest $1 and make $31 then you have made 3,000%

Easy isn't it?

The trouble is that people are attracted to statements like make 3,000%. It
is not hard to do. The trick is to turn that humble dollar into $1 million
or more. You need to keep things in perspective and to educate yourself not
only about investing but how to crunch the numbers as well, then interpret
what they mean. That way you will truly understand the value of an
investment.

My value for education cuts out at about $5-600 for a weekend. To pay
$15,000 for a seminar blows my mind as to how you could possibly get value
for that money on a ROI basis. To get a 3,000% return on $15,000 you would
have to make $45,015,000.

If you look at the truly rich people around, they made their money the hard
way, over time with a lot of hard work and a high level of risk. Sadly too
many people believe that a seminar will magically replace that proven
method.

I know there are some out there who made a killing in the tech boom, I just
wonder how long they will keep their wealth. If they are truly smart they
will put their money into a variety of low risk assets and live well for the
rest of their lives. I suspect though that they will succumb to greed or the
thrill of the risk and gamble with it.

For those who lost money in the past you have my sympathies, I too have made
mistakes with my money. Hopefully I have learnt the lesson available and
will continue to learn and invest.

Cheers

Terry
 
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Eric Snow has no status in here..

Reply: 3.2.1.1
From: Solomon Louie


I would have to disagree with you on at least one point Scott. A lot of the advice given above was very useful, helpful, reassuring and given freely out of concern for a fellow human being that is something that I appreciate greatly. Thanks a lot guys!! As for the travelling, I don't mind it as I like to visit the city occasionally (and live only an hours drive away!!). Though I would definitely agree that the money could have been better spent elsewhere (can anyone say HARDMAN!!).

:)
 
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