Carbon tax

[lizzie]

Considering Japan puts out something like 1.2 billion tonnes of carbon a year - what the heck does the government think our reduction of 10 million/year is going to do?

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8271132/gillard-reveals-details-of-carbon-price

... asides from forcing up prices of essentials and pushing more of our industry overseas to non-regulating countries that has no controls at all.

 

[Dazz]

Just saw the smug Greens trio in the press conference saying it was a great day for Australia, and especially for Tasmania.

1 out of 150 MHRs and 2 senators and they are driving policy.

Unrepresentative swill the lot of 'em.

Designed and released for no parliamentary scrutiny...outrageous.

 

[bluestorm]

The Carbon Tax has never been about the environment. It's revenue raising, and wealth re-distribution. Raising the tax free threshhold from $6 to 18K removes 1 million from contributing their fair share of tax(and guess who this lower end tend to vote for ).

And they have increased the bottom two tax rates from the 15 cents to 19 cents and the 30 cent rate to 33 cents. Why no mention of that?
Gillard is gutless to not mention this in the actual press conference. Bracket creep will eventually recoup a lot more in tax over time. But the lemming Australia public will have already been fooled by then.

Anyone who thinks this is about the environment are just really gullible. Looks who’s in control (Greens and Gillard (very left)). This Carbon Tax is all about a start on hitting the “rich” more, and giving the bludgers an even greater free ride.

I'll tell you what it will achieve. Companies are not stupid. They will offshore what can be offshored to reduce the amount of tax they need to pay. The result, Australia will reduce the amount of CO2 emissions, because effectively we will produce less goods in Australia. Greens will feel all warm as fuzzy about saving the planet.

 

[bluestorm]

So evand, as you are the Greeny on this forum, please explain to me how the Carbon Tax and the environment have anything to do with Gillard's Income Tax reform. The two are completely seperate.

New income tax :
Tax free threshhold from $6000 to $18200. 15% tax rate up to 19%. 30% tax rate up to 33%. I assume they maybe may also play with the levels each of these rates kick in.

I have to say Labor is smart though. An increase in tax revenue longer term with bracket creep and people paying more tax, and people feel all warm and fuzzy that they are helping the planet. It's the holy grail for governments. Make people want to pay more tax.
In 3yrs with bracket creep, compensation paid out will fall, tax revenue increases.

Lovely. Well at least I have to give Labor credit for that. At least they release that their huge debt has to be paid off eventually by increasing taxes. Doing it under the cover of a warm and fuzzy environmental policy is genious. The Australia public will be non the wiser.

As for the Carbon Tax itself, it will have absolutely no effect on climate change. Could actually backfire as companies more more offshore when controls are more lax. Australia will look saintly for "reducing" CO2 emissions, but globally things will increase.

Call me cynical. It was too politically sensitive to raise the GST from 10% to 12.5%. They have effectively achieved the same here, and everyone feels warm and fuzzy, none the wiser.

 

[coastymike]

Bluestorm

Thanks for that. Was trying to understand how someone earning over $80k per annum only got back $3 per annum when the tax free threshold had increased. They did it by increasing the other thresholds !!!

So further incentive not to work or better yourself because if you do you just get taxed on it. Love this socialist regime.

I agree with you re outsourcing. Companies now have an incentive to send more of their manufacturing facilities offshore where there is no carbon tax and then just import the goods. More manufacturing offshore. And what happens when China and India start looking elsewhere ? Where are we then ?

Didn't see any benefits either for small business except for an increase to the tax break for equipment replacing old equipment up to $6,500. Awesome. Increased food costs means the business is no longer as profitable but hey I can buy a new fridge. Oh wait I don't have any money.

 

[bluestorm]

Bluestorm

Thanks for that. Was trying to understand how someone earning over $80k per annum only got back $3 per annum when the tax free threshold had increased. They did it by increasing the other thresholds !!!

Yeah, initially during the press conference I thought "cool" tax cut of about $1800/yr with the increase in tax free threshhold. But the devil is in the details. I think it's extremely gutless of Gillard (and the media and papers for that matter), not to give the complete facts.
But the public is plain stupid. Wave a hand and tell them they will be a few dollar better off. But leave off the part that they will be MUCH more worse off in 2yrs time.

But reading the posts in the papers, most people are fooled and happy to be "saving the planet" and penalising the EVIL big polluting companies. So you can't feel sorry for them later when they actually start feeling the pain of this Carbon Tax.

 

[willair]

Considering Japan puts out something like 1.2 billion tonnes of carbon a year - what the heck does the government think our reduction of 10 million/year is going to do?

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8271132/gillard-reveals-details-of-carbon-price

... asides from forcing up prices of essentials and pushing more of our industry overseas to non-regulating countries that has no controls at all.

When you try and look at this in a simple way like Miss Gillard spins it all out every time the mouth is open i still can't understand it all,every new tax will cost every person that walks out their front door each day in several ways,and how can a few dropkicks hold the entire 22 million plus voting public to the mindsets of a few that look after their own..

Just one simple question if you were to buy a simple brick,one brick with all the new taxes,how much will that brick cost to be Australian Made,or will it be cheaper to bring the same brick in from China and wipe out that
section of our building sector,??..

 

[IndexFund]

Carbon tax is a scam, it's designed to leach more and more money just like GST out of the average person. The government taxes corporations while the corporations pass on the price hike to consumers.

Carbon dioxide is a naturally occurring gas which comes and goes depending on the oceans and the sun.

Climate scientists use computer models to work out what will happen in 100 years time, when they can't accurately predict what will the weather be like in 2 weeks.

According to their theories in a decade my outer suburbs property will be a beach front paradise. Ha! I' like to see that.

Sure the north pole may be slightly melting, but does anyone mention that Antarctica's ice shelves are GROWING rapidly in size, upwards. In nature there is always a healthy balance.

The planet warms up and cools down by a few degrees every century, it's a natural occurrence.

In the 70s and 80s they were scarring us into thinking that the world is rapidly freezing over.

Follow the money trail, carbon taxes imposed on us are a fraud.

http://www.news.com.au/antarctic-ice-is-growing-not-melting-away/story-0-1225700043191

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtevF4B4RtQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr5O1HsTVgA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u81qXOYfKg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Btd6L31ZYg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stij8sUybx0

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v158890018kQaxQaK

 

[austini]

Bluestorm

Thanks for that. Was trying to understand how someone earning over $80k per annum only got back $3 per annum when the tax free threshold had increased. They did it by increasing the other thresholds !!! ....

Must admit I was damn confused trying to figure out the same. The detail can be found in the following document (see New Tax Scales):

http://www.cleanenergyfuture.gov.au/household-assistance—tax-reform/

What an absolute con!

Cheers - Gordon

 

[austini]

The next thought to go through my head is that even for low income earners this makes putting extra into Super that little bit more attractive with its effective rate of 15%. Up till now if you earned less than $37,001 it is generally suggested that it is not worthwhile locking money into Super given that the tax rates are the same (excluding the Medicare levy). Going forward it will be 19% outside Super (above the tax free threshold) Vs 15% inside Super. Mind you most of those i know who are lower income earners have zero interest in Super anyhow!

Cheers

 

[Casserole Dish]

What a sad day.

 

[bluestorm]

Must admit I was damn confused trying to figure out the same. The detail can be found in the following document (see New Tax Scales):

http://www.cleanenergyfuture.gov.au/household-assistance—tax-reform/

What an absolute con!

Cheers - Gordon

Yeah, was this a Carbon Tax, or Income Tax reform hidden under the cover of a Carbon Tax. Changes to Tax scales, Low Income Tax Offsets, etc.
The voters will be clueless and cheers that action on climate change is finally happening. Meanwhile, they'll pay more over the long run.

I have to admire Labor for the audacity to try and pull the wool over the voters eyes like this. Brilliant. Liberals could not have done it better.

It's communist removing 1 million people from paying any tax, but increasing the tax intake is what Australia will need to pay off the Labor debt. Labor have played a master stroke here I have to say. More tax, and the lemming voters feel good about the environment. I'm impressed.

 

[gottabespotless]

Many workers who fall into the 'earning less than $20 000pa' bracket (and who, from next year, won't have to pay any tax on their earnings) are Mums working part-time to supplement their family's income - am I just being cynical in thinking that the next announcement will be a reduction, or atleast a freeze on Family Tax Benefits and child care rebates for these families to make up for the tax Mum now won't be paying?

 

[StefanA]

Isn't the primary purpose of the carbon tax to motivate us to reduce our carbon emissions?

Consider :
- 90% of households will receive some form of compensation
- 70% of households will have more money in their pockets
- petrol is excluded
- meat consumption is excluded

This tax is a nefarious scam by deluded ideological socialists.
It finally drives home that the Greens are nothing less than a front for deceptive hard core Marxists, and Labor are not far off as well.

Can anyone explain to me where the cuts to Australia's carbon emissions are going to come from, as initiated by this tax?

As Professor Judith Sloan said in the Australian yesterday, this tax fails the three key tests of an effective tax - efficiency, equity, simplicity:
- $23 is not high enough a charge to dissuade CO2 emissions. therefore it fails the efficiency test.
- it is not an equitable tax because it is regressive in that lower income earners are hit harder by it, and this drives a need for bean counters to redistribute. This also creates further disincentive to reduce CO2 emissions. Therefore, it turns out to be primarily a redistributive tax.
- Compensation of some and redistribution make it a complex tax, which will be expensive to administer. Therefore it fails the simplicity test.

It is time for Australians to wake up to how ideologically driven our well meaning but impractical governors are. And it is time to wake up to the truth about the Greens.

 

[bluestorm]

Can anyone explain to me where the cuts to Australia's carbon emissions are going to come from, as initiated by this tax?

I intend to increase by carbon emissions now. If I'm to pay more through the tax system, with no way of reducing my costs by doing things greener, then I'll pollute more.

StefanA, when you realise all this is not about the environment, it all makes sense. It's about getting more money out of the more wealthy, and having the poorer and lazier pay a lot less. Classic communism.

 

[jrc77]

I intend to increase by carbon emissions now. If I'm to pay more through the tax system, with no way of reducing my costs by doing things greener, then I'll pollute more.

StefanA, when you realise all this is not about the environment, it all makes sense. It's about getting more money out of the more wealthy, and having the poorer and lazier pay a lot less. Classic communism.

Has anyone seen any news on whether the increased tax free threshold as also applicable for distributions from trusts to minors?

Regards,

Jason

 

[pennyk]

I'm a climate change fence-sitter...... I believe neither the sceptics nor the zealots. I was prepared to be open minded on the idea of a carbon tax. I didnt think it was going to destroy the economy....... or make a big difference to the environment.

My biggest concern with what I've seen so far today on the scheme is it appears very complicated. There are taxes here, exemptions there, mixed in with changes to tax scale etc. It seems like a dogs breakfast.

 

[lizzie]

Was impressed with Abbotts reply - once he got past the initial bagging. Sounds like the Librals had a workable, thought thru, policy in reply.

 

[Intrinsic_Value]

My biggest concern with what I've seen so far today on the scheme is it appears very complicated. There are taxes here, exemptions there, mixed in with changes to tax scale etc. It seems like a dogs breakfast.

ah but this is where the fun will be.
Lots of pork to be given out.

After Howes of the unions opened his mouth last month, i started betting on a recovery in the share prices of the australian main steel producers: BSL and OST.

Now dont get me wrong, these are crappy companies for investment purposes, but the recent tanking in the shareprice created a great opportunity to buy call options.

And today gillard has announced some very positive assistence schemes, so positive in fact that OST made a press release saying 'thank you'.

You beeeeaaauuuty

 

[weg]

It's about getting more money out of the more wealthy, and having the poorer and lazier pay a lot less. Classic communism.

This seems to be the recurring theme. Saving the planet my @$$.