Cause for concern?

building ins. vs landlord ins.

guys can someone help me...in order to be covered for harm suffered by tenants or others do you need landlord ins. or will simple building ins. cover this?

rich
 
Terry,

Not much has happened, my insurance sent around a Loss Adjuster to interview me. He wanted the full history on the IP from when/why I bought it and everything has happened to the property up till now. I have a good filing system and have supplied him with every PCR uptil now and photo's of the property prior to this tenant, as well as a detailed expense list of all maintenance done to the property.

My PM also gave a statement to another Loss Adjuster in WA who asked similar questions although she has only been managing the property for a short time.

The tenant moved out on the 20th June and as expected the IP has been left in less than desirerable condition. I'm also paying for the removal of various handrails the tenant installed around the house to help with his disability. This involves patching and painting along with some tile replacements. The total cost for all this exceeds the value of the tenants bond.

As also expected the tenant is demanding full reimbursement of bond. This is why I use a PM, I cant stand having to deal with situations like this.

As far as I know no court documents have been issued, which makes me wonder why my insurer has started to spend money without being pushed.

The Loss Adjuster who interviewed me did make a comment that "the claim looks a little suspect".

I'm going over to WA for other business in a couple of weeks, I'll drop by the property and see for myself what all the drama is about.

Mark
 
Things are starting to get messy.

I should explain at this point some of the mishandling that has taken place by previous property management in regards to this IP.

All my properties in Mandurah where managed by Real Estate "A" who sold their rent roll to Real Estate "B". I had concerns about the management "B" where providing and moved everything to Real Estate "C". Hope your still with me.

As it turns out the PCR was given to the tenant to complete at the same time "A" was sold to "B" and the original PCR was never returned to "B".

As such there is nothing other than routine inspection forms to go on, and as such my tenant is claiming that the holes in the walls, stains on the carpet, brown patchy grass etc where in place when he took possession.

To prove his point he found the "original" presumed missing PCR with all these notes on it backing his claims.

I have contacted the original PM from "A" and asked her to validate the PCR, in her words the PCR he has supplied is blatantly fraudulent (surprise, surprise).

He has signed her name and claimed that the property was in a poor condition when he moved in. He even wrote the wrong dates on it.

It's fair to say I've moved on from having a "Cause for concern" to having a "Cause to Press Charges".

Has anybody else come across a situation like this before? What action can be taken? Is it worth pushing it or just give him his bond back and move on?

Anybody know ACA phone number?

Mark
 
Well, I am sure your Insurance company will be very pleased with that development. Your PM from "A" should put her claims of fraud in writing while still fresh in her mind and get this to your Insurance company as soon as possible. They will be the ones to press charges because really, the fraud is against them, as your Insurers rather than you. And, sorry to say, they count much more than you do (in the nicest possible way). And they will have a field day.

Sounds like he will have to call stumps on this one!
 
Hi there
just wondering if this tenant should be listed on the black books that the agents review? also a handwriting expert could perhaps be called in to verify the fraud as well as the suggestion to get a statement from the first PM.
This fellow is definately trying to recover funds to which he is no longer entitled by deception - which I am sure would be a criminal offence in WA.
I would be letting the insurance company know and possibly the police. Also I think you can email a current affair with the story but you may wish to let the insurance company have their go first.
thanks
 
My current PM "C" has had a meeting with the tenants explaining our concerns over the PCR they have supplied.

Of cause they have refuted any inference that the document is anything other than legitimate and have stated that the witness on the document they supplied is a JP and that PM "A" is a "liar".

I'm sure most people who have had anything to do with a PM will know they can be extremely volatile during times of stress and should not be fooled with, special note should be given to NOT calling one of them a "Liar".

WOW you should see the emails I've been CC in on over the last 24hrs. I have never heard anybody scream in a letter before.

It's fair to say the insurance company is now aware of the latest circumstances, if they aren't they could probably open up their window and they will hear about it.

PM "A" is also seeking advise to protect her professional name and if appropriate is considering legal action against my tenant for defamation.

What a mess. I'm going to sit on the sidelines and watch. Halftime! Change sides.

Mark
 
Well, I think any concerns you may have had have gone out the door because this has moved far beyond the scope of the original claim!
 
very interesting story... I work for one of the largest prosthetic manufacturers, so if you need any assistance with pricing/ repair costs, I can probably find out some information for you. (i work in the wheelchair side of the business, so don't know much myself about prosthetics, except that $8000 doesn't go far in getting you a new prosthetic. So, you can be grateful it wasn't a new beaut $60 000 one!!)
I certainly wouldn't go to any of the current affairs shows, because once someone has a disability, they will make it look like you are the villian. So many of the stories I've seen on those shows about people with disabilities not getting the services etc they need are a complete fabrication! Its a small industry, and we often know whats happening behind the scenes.
I hope it works out for you. Certainly the fact that the guy is making fradulent claims should help your situation.
Pen
 
Pen,

Thanks for the offer, I was just kidding about ACA it's not really my thing.

The latest on the PM drama, PM C arranged with PM A to meet with the tenant to "find out who is telling the truth". PM A jumped at the offer, however the tenant declined stating "I've had enough arguing this, I'm going to take this to court... he's [the landlord is] only picking on me because I have a claim against him".

I don't really expect anything further from him, it's quite evident that the documents he has supplied are fake. Reducing his chances of successfully pursuing a claim over his broken leg.

If there is anything else this person comes up with I will post but I'm expecting that this is the last post on this subject.:)

Mark
 
God MarkC I was just reading your post and felt sick!!!!

My tenant has just rung me up and told me that she fell through the back porch and hurt herself. I looked back at the condition report we did at the time of letting to her (8 months ago) and shore enough, I see there that the porch was ticked off as being damaged and that the gutters and downpipes need replacing.

I am now worried as I haven't got around to doing those jobs yet! How do you think that would stack up if she decided to put a claim in? I self manage the property. Maybe if I was taking steps to have this done????!!!! Would that be enough to clear me??!!

Lets hope I am just being paranoid :eek: ..........she is on really good rent and loves the place.....

sq
 
SuzieQ - Go buy her a very big pressie and suck up big time. Wouldn't want to be you if she has a friend who's a lawyer. :eek: :D

Even if you were taking steps, which you haven't unfortunately, I'd suggest you would not be covered. You are responsible for providing a safe and secure environment to the tenant. I've seen landlords sued for some very BS stuff so on the face of your info it would be a battle to prove a case.

Hopefully she isn't the type to go down the legal path.....

Kev
www.gogecko.com.au
 
thanks for your reply Kev......I spoke to her and said get the verandah fixed and send me the bill. I will however need to attend to those gutters and down pipes before next winter. She wants to paint the house internally so I will ring her today to see how she's going and perhaps say I am happy to pay for the paint - do you think that might keep her happy :D

sq
 
Hi SuzieQ,

Hopefully it won't become a legal matter. However, if it looks like it might, make sure you let your insurer know straight away. My understanding is that your public liability insurance would cover you for something like this.
 
thanks for your reply Kev......I spoke to her and said get the verandah fixed and send me the bill. I will however need to attend to those gutters and down pipes before next winter. She wants to paint the house internally so I will ring her today to see how she's going and perhaps say I am happy to pay for the paint - do you think that might keep her happy :D

sq

We used to own a Roller Skating Rink. What I learnt from that experience is that the more concern you show someone who has injured themselves, the more they are likely to try to sue you.

Keep everything business like & don't show emotion, as those who are of the nature to try to get "something for nothing" will smell any weekness a mile away & do their best to get "what they deserve". I even heard one talking at the scene of an accident that "they are rich anyway" & "it doesn't cost them (us) anything as it's all covered by insurance". Well, what about the increase in premiums? And what about the excess that we have to pay each & every time it happens which at the time was in excess of $1000. Please note that we were not negligent in any claims, however that didn't stop some getting payouts.
 
Back
Top