I suspect there are a few non standard things with yours : )
Bush, lo doc, cap left off the toothpaste in the bathroom
ta
rolf
CBA Valuation - are they undervaluing properties?
- Thread starter sash
- Start date
I suspect there are a few non standard things with yours : )
Bush, lo doc, cap left off the toothpaste in the bathroom
ta
rolf
In the case of where we can presebt comparable sales that are 0 to 20 % greater than the val we ALMOST always have success in having the valuations overturned and a check val done with another valuer.
Where the success is much lower is where the differential is under 10 %
ta
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I have been in meetings with valuers where they point blank asked "would you like this property to come in cheap, or expensive?" with a 25-30% deviation from other valuers - and that's private valuations. If you think for a second that banks with trillions on their balance sheets aren't going to influence their valuers in some way shape or form, then you're on massive amounts of drugs and/or writing these posts from a mental asylum in a little computer room with padded walls, wearing a straight jacket, using voice recognition software.
My loan is through a broker and I couldn't get the valuation through her still. I was trying to get a desktop val which she said they can do if the top up loan has an LVR of 80% but it still didn't come in. I think it's a sign of the times. I was attempting to not get it physicalled valued as the place will probably need a small reno; money which I could use for another deposit anyway.
nah, its the same room we shot the moon landing from
Even at our pleb level, if a val comes in low, the valuer may call and ask whats the go, where does it need to be. Its possible to influence a val a little up or down.
Thats not the point though.
My interpretation of the start of this thread is the following.
Is CBA specifically asking valuers to come back with valuations below market; that is, CBA is doing this and other lenders ( at least some ) are not.
The answer I suggest is NO, based on a few quiet words to a number of valuers that we know, but they may be sworn to secrecy too.
My view is that Vals such as Sash's where the vals are 20 % below market arent conspiracy, they are an issue of individual opinion and sometimes valuer "incompetence"
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the issue here then is that a Client ordered val is a full val...................
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Could not agree more.
Banks like CBA and Westpac made some very poor decisions around lending to FHB when the govt was handing out 14k plus any state concessions ...potentially savings of 22k.
Despite what the govt is saying things are not so rosy from an economic point of view. The banks are seeing this well ahead of the govt and are trying to impose similar credit limits to the GFC! But they are not differenciating from the old hands who have ridden out many downturns and the newbies.
Also, have been looking at the prices of properties in Sydney in areas like Lilyfield, Balmain, Mosman, Hunters Hill, and Rozelle. Interesting things are happening....the prices are coming off. In some instances up to 200k off what they would have gone for early lasy year.
On lower end properties ...the drop is not as much but things are still slow.
I think we are in for a short period of turbulence.....thus my thoughts as to why there will be rate cut later this year.
The funny thing is this time around the well off will feel it more....labor has cut some of the benefits and cost of living is starting to affect people.
An article which supports my position:
http://www.news.com.au/money/david-...property-porkies/story-fn7kicty-1226065440533
Banks like CBA and Westpac made some very poor decisions around lending to FHB when the govt was handing out 14k plus any state concessions ...potentially savings of 22k.
Despite what the govt is saying things are not so rosy from an economic point of view. The banks are seeing this well ahead of the govt and are trying to impose similar credit limits to the GFC! But they are not differenciating from the old hands who have ridden out many downturns and the newbies.
Also, have been looking at the prices of properties in Sydney in areas like Lilyfield, Balmain, Mosman, Hunters Hill, and Rozelle. Interesting things are happening....the prices are coming off. In some instances up to 200k off what they would have gone for early lasy year.
On lower end properties ...the drop is not as much but things are still slow.
I think we are in for a short period of turbulence.....thus my thoughts as to why there will be rate cut later this year.
The funny thing is this time around the well off will feel it more....labor has cut some of the benefits and cost of living is starting to affect people.
An article which supports my position:
http://www.news.com.au/money/david-...property-porkies/story-fn7kicty-1226065440533
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Eh, my next door neighbour got his house valued 2 weeks before ours for a topup loan. Different bank. Smaller house, he desperately needed money to START to renovate (roof leaks like a sieve, HWS blew up etc), smaller land, no offstreet parking, the works. Both of us were absolutely sure ours would be considerably higher than his.
His valuation came in higher than ours by about 10%.
Its just the bank. They used the valuation from 2008 and won't make it current.
Sorry elf, I meant to say the reason that a COV would not work for u is because those issues prevent one from being ordered
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Sash wow.....you really do get p*ssed when stuff doesn't go your way. (don't get me wrong from what i've read in your previous posts you seem like a pretty cool dude)
My broker suggested before doing loan top ups i order some valuations from CBA's valuer, i think at the time they had a special ($150 per valuation).
* Valuation 1 (slightly under what i thought)
* Valuation 2 (Slightly over)
Sash you must understand that variable rate means just that variable, the clause's in your new loan documents means NAB can jack up the variable anytime they want. Just don't crack it when they do.
My experience with CBA has been different to yours, in general staff are pretty helpful, good range of products, fairly competitive. I've had some negative experiences but that was with an individual and the positives outweigh the negatives.
Best of luck with your endevours
Regards,
RH
My broker suggested before doing loan top ups i order some valuations from CBA's valuer, i think at the time they had a special ($150 per valuation).
* Valuation 1 (slightly under what i thought)
* Valuation 2 (Slightly over)
Sash you must understand that variable rate means just that variable, the clause's in your new loan documents means NAB can jack up the variable anytime they want. Just don't crack it when they do.
My experience with CBA has been different to yours, in general staff are pretty helpful, good range of products, fairly competitive. I've had some negative experiences but that was with an individual and the positives outweigh the negatives.
Best of luck with your endevours
Regards,
RH
I guess I like to right a tight ship...otherwise...it magnifies your potential risks. Now is the time to rock the boat as the banks are under pressure to maintain their customer base.
CBA was good over the last 2 years....but it looks like they are tightening things to the point it is getting annoying. I tend to keep on top of these trends and make changes so that I am not cornered. Potentially we are entering a rocky period....I just want to ensure that all the ducks in a row.
As for NAB...yes that potential exists....but the otherside of the coin is that there is not fees (other than the package fee in the second year). No exit fees, no change fees, etc.
I am not saying that CBA will be not in the mix...it is just that my 30-40k cashflow per month will now probably end up in a NAB 100% offset vs CBA's pseudo offset.
Each to their own...I don't trust any ONE bank with all my funds.
Also, I am trying another avenue to get by CBA rates down. Will keep you guys advised. There are many roads to Rome.
Oh...if I give a bank $1m in loans and take some of their other products..I don't expect to be nickled and dimed on valuations. Based on a 2.8% margin less say 0.95% discountthey margin is still a health 1.85% of 18.5k a year to pay their costs and make a profit. Remeber all these fees add to the net profitability of your property business. In fact I even got CBA to not charge me any settlement fees.
CBA was good over the last 2 years....but it looks like they are tightening things to the point it is getting annoying. I tend to keep on top of these trends and make changes so that I am not cornered. Potentially we are entering a rocky period....I just want to ensure that all the ducks in a row.
As for NAB...yes that potential exists....but the otherside of the coin is that there is not fees (other than the package fee in the second year). No exit fees, no change fees, etc.
I am not saying that CBA will be not in the mix...it is just that my 30-40k cashflow per month will now probably end up in a NAB 100% offset vs CBA's pseudo offset.
Each to their own...I don't trust any ONE bank with all my funds.
Also, I am trying another avenue to get by CBA rates down. Will keep you guys advised. There are many roads to Rome.
Oh...if I give a bank $1m in loans and take some of their other products..I don't expect to be nickled and dimed on valuations. Based on a 2.8% margin less say 0.95% discountthey margin is still a health 1.85% of 18.5k a year to pay their costs and make a profit. Remeber all these fees add to the net profitability of your property business. In fact I even got CBA to not charge me any settlement fees.
Ive had loads of short vals lately, not refinances, purchases of house and land.
While the market hasnt tumbled, due to their not being much turnover, the valuers have less comparable sales to use.
Valuations for constuction has always been an issue, lately however its much more dificult.
there was a comment earlier on banks overlending after the FHOG boost, and now trying to shut the gate after the horse has bolted, and throwing the seasoned property investor out with the bath water (excuse the mixed metaphors).
Durign that time, the lenders were still writing to credit standards, set by the mortgage insuer and sercuritser, as they had previously. there was no drop in credit standards.
the first home buyers equity just came from the FHOG instead of the hard earned of the client. to the bank, mortgage insurer and securitser, equity is equity.
Since then the 3 parties have tightened credit standards, and the fhog has gone back to what it had been previously. Is there any wonder valuations are now more dificult? there is less people in the market, hence demand is less, hence values fall.
Sure you can make the argument your not selling, this is just a bank valuation, and for x y and z reasons the value should be higher, but in reality, if the valuer hasnt got comparable sales to use, because current listings are sitting on the market for months, and the sales that do come through are discounted, theres not much you can do about it.
Ive long suspected conspriracy theories of banks dictating results to valuers, but in reality, the lenders are actually on the opposite side of the fence. they want increased values. It means increased lending. Valex was set up so that bank staff couldnt manipulate the system. Ive spoken to lots of valuers, who all say they have never had anyone call and ask for a low val. the call is always to increase the val.
Of course the reason they dont is because they can and do get sued by mortgage insurers.
While the market hasnt tumbled, due to their not being much turnover, the valuers have less comparable sales to use.
Valuations for constuction has always been an issue, lately however its much more dificult.
there was a comment earlier on banks overlending after the FHOG boost, and now trying to shut the gate after the horse has bolted, and throwing the seasoned property investor out with the bath water (excuse the mixed metaphors).
Durign that time, the lenders were still writing to credit standards, set by the mortgage insuer and sercuritser, as they had previously. there was no drop in credit standards.
the first home buyers equity just came from the FHOG instead of the hard earned of the client. to the bank, mortgage insurer and securitser, equity is equity.
Since then the 3 parties have tightened credit standards, and the fhog has gone back to what it had been previously. Is there any wonder valuations are now more dificult? there is less people in the market, hence demand is less, hence values fall.
Sure you can make the argument your not selling, this is just a bank valuation, and for x y and z reasons the value should be higher, but in reality, if the valuer hasnt got comparable sales to use, because current listings are sitting on the market for months, and the sales that do come through are discounted, theres not much you can do about it.
Ive long suspected conspriracy theories of banks dictating results to valuers, but in reality, the lenders are actually on the opposite side of the fence. they want increased values. It means increased lending. Valex was set up so that bank staff couldnt manipulate the system. Ive spoken to lots of valuers, who all say they have never had anyone call and ask for a low val. the call is always to increase the val.
Of course the reason they dont is because they can and do get sued by mortgage insurers.
It is not the one in Wyong....that came in on valuation. As a matter of fact the valuer said to the agent to call him if anymore came up.
It is the one in Maitland....the house next to it is on the market for 345k and the one in front is on sale for $310. They valued mine at 200K instead of 207k.
The cheapest sale in the last 2 years is 230k. So even at 10% less it should value up at 207k.
NAB valuation had not issues. It seems to be a CBA issue....though with the evidence I provided they have valued it at 207k now.
It is the one in Maitland....the house next to it is on the market for 345k and the one in front is on sale for $310. They valued mine at 200K instead of 207k.
The cheapest sale in the last 2 years is 230k. So even at 10% less it should value up at 207k.
NAB valuation had not issues. It seems to be a CBA issue....though with the evidence I provided they have valued it at 207k now.
Pft, ours is 7.8%
That's with Homestart though, which is a whole other kettle of fish with lending.
