Charging for water usage in QLD - 'water efficiency certificate' required?

[DavidMc]

Hi everyone,

I understand in QLD that traditionally it's the landlord that pays for water usage and that's what everyone is used to. This is very different that what we have in Victoria where the tenants have paid for years. In QLD in July 2009 this was changed to be more like Victoria (with the exception of the bill still being in the Landlords name and the cost passed on, rather than the tenants having their own account (which would be much more simpler - a limitation of the Utilities billing system no doubt)).

I'm keen to have the tenants pay for water usage, I believe it is the environmentally responsible thing to do. When people do not have to pay for what they use then wastage occurs and I'm sure QLD is just as dry as Vic (why would anyone bother having a 4 minute shower if they don't have to pay for the water?).

Based on the fact sheet from the RTA (http://bbpm.com.au/uploads/water.pdf), my understanding is that I am entitled to charge the *full* water consumption as long as:

1. There are water meters.
2. The rental premises is 'water efficient'. The definition of this provided by the RTA is that the taps and showerhead must be at least WELS 3 star or higher (i.e. max flow rate of 9 litres/min) and the toilets must be dual flush.
3. We write it into the lease.

I have noticed on the RTA website (http://www.rta.qld.gov.au/Resources...cy-fact-sheets/Water-charging-fact-sheet.aspx) it says that landlords 'should' be able to demonstrate the presence of water efficient devices by way of plumbing reports, etc if it is unclear. I note that 'should' does not mean 'must' and in the case of such new-ish houses I would argue it would not be unclear. I have just spoken to a lady named Rufaro at the RTA in QLD and she has confirmed that landlords are not required to provide any kind of water efficiency certificate or report.

My PM, however, is saying we need this water cert.

I think it would be overkill to spent $150 (or whatever it is) per property to get a plumber in to prove that the devices are water efficient.

My thoughts on the best way to go about this is to write something short and simple in the lease and leave it at that 'as per 2009 RTA legislation the tenants are liable to pay for water usage'. I can imagine some tenants won't like this, perhaps they didn't have to pay in their previous property, however the law is on our side.

In the rare case a tenant disputes that the water devices are not efficient then at that stage we can then think about engaging a plumber (in fact, that's something the tenants can do). I will personally inspect and test the taps when we are up in my properties at settlement and also take photos of them, as I have no way of stopping a tenant putting a water wasting shower head on.

Question - has any QLD investor faced an issue where a water certificate was required by a government agency?

 

[wylie]

We had our houses tested under the free (or very cheap - cannot recall) offer where shower heads were tested, toilets were checked as being dual flush and we have that certificate filed.

We've been charging tenants for water usage from the first leases after the new laws came in and have never had any issues, nor any requests to show anybody any paperwork.

We do tick the box on the paperwork where it asks if the house is water efficient.

 

[DavidMc]

Thank you Wylie!

We had our houses tested under the free (or very cheap - cannot recall) offer where shower heads were tested, toilets were checked as being dual flush and we have that certificate filed.

Can I ask who did this?

We've been charging tenants for water usage from the first leases after the new laws came in and have never had any issues, nor any requests to show anybody any paperwork.

Does your PM take meter readings? Do they do calcs right up to the move in/move out dates or just the first full bill during the tenancy?

We do tick the box on the paperwork where it asks if the house is water efficient.

Can I ask what paperwork you are referring to?

 

[shuggy]

Can I ask who did this?

A plumber.. don't be tight, spend the $150, get it done properly and act within the law.

Can I ask what paperwork you are referring to?

Probably the one shown here in a similar thread i also made about this topic, have a read..

http://somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53445

 

[wylie]

Thank you Wylie!

Can I ask who did this?

Does your PM take meter readings? Do they do calcs right up to the move in/move out dates or just the first full bill during the tenancy?

Can I ask what paperwork you are referring to?

It was a Water Wise service where I called the council, who organise for a local plumber to call and check the rate of the shower flow, check for dual flush loos and issue a certificate stating we are Water Wise. I just cannot find it right now, but that is due to my file on the IPs being too full of papers. I am happy to look more thoroughly. From memory it was a scheme being pushed when the dams were getting low, but I might have that wrong. I don't know if it is still offered, but a call to BCC will confirm that (3403 8888).

We self-manage. We do read the meters and depending on timing and how much the charge is, we choose to pay the first water bill or pass it on. Because the meter readings are three months behind this can be a PITA to work out, so I choose on a case by case basis whether to work it out or wait until the tenant has been there for the complete time that the account covers.

It is only the first and last accounts that need to be worked out manually. Eg, first water account for our new tenant covers three months of the outgoing tenant's usage, and only about ten days of current tenant's usage. We had the option of charging the outgoing tenant when he left, but we chose not to, so we paid the last three months of his water usage (about $50).

Before I get jumped on I will say that he moved out the day after we landed from overseas, we were horribly jetlagged and didn't want to bother with reading the meter, and he had also been extremely cooperative in allowing entry for photos and inspections, so we were happy to do that for him. Each case on its merits...

If a new tenant moves in just after a bill has been issued, then we would read the meter and charge that first three months. From then on, the water used is for them and not any previous tenant, so they just pay the usage amount from the bill.

 

[DavidMc]

I have just spoken to a lady named Rufaro at the RTA in QLD and she has confirmed that landlords are not required to provide any kind of water efficiency certificate or report.

A plumber.. don't be tight, spend the $150, get it done properly and act within the law.

Ummm.... see my post above. The RTA has said these are not required by law.

It's not a matter of being tight, it's a matter of being smart and not paying for stuff I don't need. The RTA has said it's not required and I am yet to hear of a case where such a certificate was requested by someone other than an over-conservative, misinformed or lazy PM or property owner.

It's obvious there is confusion around this issue and I'm trying to get some clarity.

Thank you for sending me that thread Shuggy, it's great information. I have seen that some people have Marg4000 has paid $253 for her certificate, so over $1.2k for the 5 properties I have an interest in in QLD... I'd rather not unless its something I have to do by law.

 

[NedKelly]

I spent the money on a plumber. It cost $175 for the certificate and a few showerheads. I now charge all the water usage to the tenants.

Here is the interesting thing. Their water consumption has pretty much halved since they have been paying and I doubt very much if it was due to the showerheads, more likely the fact that now they are paying for it they don't waste it.

Don't you just love 'em?

 

[DavidMc]

I have just requested the RTA email me something stating that such a certificate is not mandatory.

They agreed to, hopefully it comes through...

 

[Peterw]

David, I must say, I would be interested in seeing what they send through. While, the wording is, "should be able to demonstrate the presence of water efficient devices" as they are listed, however should you end up in the QCAT for one reason or another, how do you "demonstrate". Do you know if the shower head is in fact efficient, or has a flow restrictor been installed. How would you know if an outgoing tenant remover the restrictor, and then the new tenant complains about the water bill. Sadly, as an agent, we must recommend the "best practice" path. Every time, new legislation is introduced, it seems that the practicalities don’t seem to really be taken into consideration.

 

[DavidMc]

Hi Peter,

The RTA have emailed me confirmation that my interpretation is correct and getting a certificate is not mandatory.

The ways to demonstrate are listed on the RTA's website.

A smart agents would note the presence of compliant taps, showers and toilets on the condition reports to reduce the risk of tenants changing them.

If the tenant was to complain saying that they are not liable for any water other than what is over the average amount, it would be pretty easy to prove that they changed them by way inspection (look for WELS 3 start rating written on the product (or worst case, a plumbers test)). Or, (I'm no plumber but) why not just turn the thing on full bore and if you fill a 9L bucket in less than a minute?

If you want to be 100% sure, a basic water saving shower head is only $12 - 19 from Bunnings.

http://www.bunnings.com.au/products...name--Water+Saving+Shower+Heads&sort=priceasc

Even I can install those and I work in Software (I can barely pick up a hammer).

Don't forget, an annual water bill can easily be $600+ for a property in QLD (and from reports, is usually DOUBLE when the landlord is paying and there is no financial incentive to save water). It's well worth doing, just requires that little extra thought/effort.

Yes, the website doesnt' cover all the practicalities but I suppose that's what happens with new laws. Also, it sucks that because the Water companies billing systems aren't up to it the calculations are handballing that problem down onto the landlords/agents. That's something agents should take up with their government - having the bill in the tenants name would be so much simpler.


David.

 

[Peterw]

David, when we inspect a property, I do not believe that taps have a rating stamp on them, so not sure how we can make that statement on a report. The experience that a lot of agents have had with QCAT is that they have their own intrepretation of things, and there have been very few cases that have been in th elandlords/agents favour. I must say though, I am not aware of a tennat taking this one on yet, for a precidence to be set. I agree, life would be a lot easier if the utility compant would bill the tenant. There is a posible review coming up, and yes we will pushing for a change.

 

[DavidMc]

Yes, it's a difficult one and it's all still pretty new for everyone.

In Victoria we charge for water and there is none of this water efficiency stuff at all.

Personally, I'm willing just state they are compliant (the houses are really new, and perhaps I can also do some simple testing myself).

I suspect people won't challenge it. If they do challenge it, I will request them to provide proof that the place is NOT water efficient (i.e. innocent until proven guilty). At $200-250 for a certificate to prove it's not I doubt anyone would take it further (especially considering it IS compliant).

If I receive proof I will rectify I will replace whatever is required (without the issue going to QCAT (hopefully)).

FYI My research has found that pretty much everything after 2005 is WELS 3 Star.

For an agent, I agree that a certificate is the safest bet and if I were one I'd recommend that to my landlords, although as a landlord I'd rather not the extra expense unless I had to.

BTW you could do a whole house worth of taps and showerheads for cheaper than the cost of a certificate.

 

[Georod3]

who fits the separate meters ?

who fits the separate meters ?

my plumber ??

or the water company ?

I have 5 units in the block and the other day i found the washing machine hose on the ground just pouring water !

You are right - if they don't pay they don't care !

 

[babushka]

This is just my rant.

We have an IP (a house) in Brisbane. Before the legislation was brought in, we had to pay for tenants water usage. Like everyone said tenants did not care at all and bills were quite high because we found out later that there were more people living in the house than claimed on the lease agreement. Then when the legislation was brought in, the property manager insisted that a plumber came and changed all the water devices(a few hundred dollars, from memory) before we could charge tenants.

And, the real bug-bear for us, is that in QLD the water bills are months behind in meter reading and hence usage charges. The QLD Urban Utilities authority is very backward. It is very keen to invoice water charges upfront, but water usage months behind. So, when tenants move out, stupid property manager did not do the meter reading and we ended up with paying for the water usage. Property manager said she could not chase the previous tenants! Current tenants will move out in a few weeks, and we have read the riot acts to property manager to read the water meter and retain some bond money to pay for it. We will see if she does it.

Whereas, in Melbourne, the South East Water authority has been more efficient in that we get the invoices for the water charges, while tenants get the water usage bills. Except, one of the previous tenants did a dirty one on us, by phoning the South East Water authority a month before they actually moved to say that they would be moving on that day. After they moved out we got the bill in the post for their month usage. We asked the property manager to contact the previous tenants to claim reimbursements, but she said the previous tenants refused to pay!

 

[Fudge]

how do you "demonstrate". Do you know if the shower head is in fact efficient, or has a flow restrictor been installed. How would you know if an outgoing tenant remover the restrictor.

Unfortunately, you do not know what gos on in your own property once tenanted. The same thing bears true for smoke alarms...... and the obligations on tenant responsibilities (which came in a few years ago).

With all the legislation around it, informing the tenant of their obligations about changing batteries, etc, etc, the poor landlord has to fall over backwards and pay for nearly everything. Annual fees now for smoke alarm compliance are being incured by the landlord, if you don't go and check this yourself. Some tenants are so stingy, to avoid hearing the distracting beep, they can't be arsed to change a couple of batteries so they rip the unit off the wall.

They were so dense that they left it this way for an up coming periodic inspection.

Just think if the property burnt down, who do you think would be responsible.

One day, I am confident the laws will change though. I see it more becoming like the English system. (Why, for instance, would we be paying for the tenants garbage collection) Just can't wait for it to happen.

Until such a time though, just have to accept current laws.

F

 

[Specialist]

http://www.climatesmarthome.com.au/what_you_get.html

Check this out............. for $50 you get so much more (maybe even a certificate)

 

[wylie]

Whilst they will give you (it seems) one showerhead, that is really an electricity service.

The one you want to look at (if it is still running) is Water Wise. They will send a plumber who will test ALL shower heads, all loos and water outlets that need to be under a certain measurement.

I googled and found this http://www.enviro-friendly.com/waterwise-rebate-areas.shtml but I'm not sure if it is the same we used. It was a few years ago now.

 

[babushka]

One day, I am confident the laws will change though. I see it more becoming like the English system. (Why, for instance, would we be paying for the tenants garbage collection) Just can't wait for it to happen.

Until such a time though, just have to accept current laws.

F

Agree, tenants in Australia have it better than in the UK. We are renting a small house in London, and as tenants we have to pay for the normal utilities - gas, electricity and the whole water charges (not just usage), as well as the whole of council rates (yes! - in our case it is £160 a month!) And, the real estate agent has the hide to tell us that we have to insure the landlord's building & contents. We said no-way, we will only insure our contents but not the landlord's.

 

[DavidMc]

...however should you end up in the QCAT for one reason or another, how do you "demonstrate". Do you know if the shower head is in fact efficient, or has a flow restrictor been installed. How would you know if an outgoing tenant remover the restrictor, and then the new tenant complains about the water bill. Sadly, as an agent, we must recommend the "best practice" path.

I didn't address this fully before. This is actually a very good question. Obviously the easiest way for the agent to demonstrate this is to provide a certificate.

And naturally the landlord wouldn't want to pay for a certificate if they aren't required to by law (which cost Marg4000 from a previous thread $253).

The RTA water fact sheet (http://www.rta.qld.gov.au/Resources...cy-fact-sheets/Water-charging-fact-sheet.aspx) says:

Lessors/agents should be able to demonstrate the presence of water efficient devices where it may be unclear, such as by providing copies of:

plumbing reports
receipts
packaging
warranties or instruction manuals for taps and showerheads, etc.

For any water fixtures produced from 2005 onwards, the easiest way to check if they meet the required efficiency standard is to look for products with a WELS rating of three stars or higher. WELS is Australia’s water efficiency labelling scheme which rates fixtures including taps, showerheads and toilets according to water efficiency – the more stars the better. To find out more about the scheme or search the registered product database, visit www.waterrating.gov.au.

Yes, I agree the practicalities have not been thought through.

• If you have bought an older (15+ year) house and have spent the money to convert all the taps, toilets and showerheads then you can retain photographs of the packaging/receipts/warranties/manuals etc and note this with the condition report.
• If you have built the house brand new, then it should not be unclear (to my knowledge it's not possible to buy a tap that is not WELS 3 star from any reputable shop (Bunnings, etc), although you probably can from dodgy $2 shops, etc, so even this case it's hard to prove).

However!

• In the case that you have just purchased a house that is say 10-15 years old, you obviously don't have any receipts, packaging or warranties even though you believe it is. How do you prove it then? Obviously it's stupid to have a water certificate everytime or to replace the taps every purchase?

I suppose you could get a 9L bucket and a stopwatch, checking all the taps, then writing up a certificate of my own (to my knowledge there is no such official document standard on these things, like there is with certificates of electrical safety which must be completed by a lic electrician). Just something simple like 'I have checked the following water devices in property XYZ on date x/y/z and can confirm blah blah blah and sign it'.

The other option is just to say it is compliant until such time a dispute arises and THEN get the plumbers certificate. If the property is found to be compliant I will instruct the tenant to pay for this. In reality I will just go with this as odds are nobody would complain (I've noticed that tenants tend to back down in cases where I tell them I will forward them the bill if they are found to be at fault/incorrect).

The worst case here is where I just say it's efficient, then years down the tenant complains that the house is not water efficient (i.e. if a previous tenant fitted a non-water efficient device) then I will be up for all water costs in excess of 'reasonable usage'. In this case I would pay the water excess and THEN replace all taps and get the water cert for next time.

Thoughts?

 

[Peterw]

David, sadly it only when you have had your ears pinned back after a vew visits to QCAT, that you realise, commensense etc and in fact the act, are not really whagoes on. Quite a few agents, pasically stop at the "mediation: stage. If they dont get what they think is a reasonable outcome by then, with such a high percentage of outcomes going landlord/agents way, it is a waste of time.
Yes, when a tenant is informed prior, that they will pay if they are found at fault, then they alter their view. As always, when things are negotiated, then usually things work well. Its when it goes to the tribunal, that it will more likly go astray.