Choose your builder carefully

[Mike]

Hi,

Came across three case studies of poor building quality on this UK site. I suggest you save it and show it to potential builders and your solicitor to ensure that you have an easy legal out if you are dissatisfied with the quality of progress or completed work.

http://www.inspectorhome.co.uk/caseStudies.html

Regards, Mike

 

[Queen Bee]

Builders

Don't even mention the word "builder" around me. As far as I'm concerned the majority of them are crooks and cowboys. One just tried to rip me off to the tune of $8.5k.

 

[frenzy]

these sound like a company we know in syd called me.....n

 

[Michael Croft]

Hi Mike,

Thanks a lot for the link, it has given me a whole new business idea! A great service to consumers and clients - bet they have a few enemies in the industry though. It seems to me that there is a huge need for this type of business Australia wide and I will set about investigating this option.

So I have a big favour to ask can you (or anyone else for that matter) tell me if there is any such biz in Aust? I would do it myself but at 7200bps I would still be searching next month.

Regards, MC

 

[Mike]

Hi Mike,

Got a name for the biz - The Equalizer.

The Equalizer which ran in the United States on CBS from 1985 to 1989. Robert McCall was a retired espionage agent who'd been working for an American agency (probably the CIA). After forcing the agency to let him go, he decided to use his professional skills to aid helpless people beset by human predators in the urban jungle, usually free of charge. His ad running in the New York classifieds read: "Got a problem? Odds against you? Call the Equalizer." Although McCall's clients came from all walks of life, they shared one thing in common: they all had a problem that conventional legal authorities, such as the courts and the police, could not handle.

Hi Michael, if you are thinking of going up against the crooks and cowboys in the building trade then you may need some of McCall's attributes: "brave, aggressive, and can be quite ruthless when he believes in the justice of his cause."

Regards, Mike

 

[Michael Croft]

Hi Mike,

Me thinks you watch too much Television I seem to remember the guy who stared in The Equalizer or something like that was the English actor who starred in the series Callan (or similar sounding name) which was on the ABC back in the 70's?

But seriously though I suspect there is a call for this in Oz - what do you reckon? As for the "brave, aggressive, and can be quite ruthless when he believes in the justice of his cause." yep - must be that Saggitarian blood coursing through my viens! Give me that sword an' I'll smite their asses (Donkey derivatives for the thought police).

regards, MC

 

[Mike]

Hi Michael,

The English actor you refer to is Edward Woodward and the Callan character was very similar to the Equalizer character. Apparently Woodward has appeared in no fewer than 2000 television productions. I assume that includes each episode of Callan 1967-73 and Equalizer 1985-89.

But seriously though I suspect there is a call for this in Oz.

I think there was a parliament enquiry into the building industry recently but haven't caught up with the findings.

Have a look at these two links for starters and see if there is still room for the type of service you are thinking about.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/10/29/1035683412404.html
http://www.dft.nsw.gov.au/building/miscellaneous/sitemap.html

In the meantime, as time permits, I'll browse the internet for similar services to the UK one. Of course, there are inspection services around including reports on new builds but I'm not sure that these services also include negotiating with builders to rectify faulty or poor workmanship.

If that is the case then I think a service like that would be welcome. If it helps to lift building practice standards then more individuals would be encouraged to give new builds ago thereby providing more jobs to the industry.

Regards, Mike

 

[The Fence]

The Equaliser was a guy with three bits of timber stuck to his head..................
Edward Woodwood.

Sorry

Thorpey

P.S.
Not all Builders are crooks you know. Also, the crooks will soon be gone as the requirements Builders have to meet now are getting serious. And I am seeing many leave building lately.

Cheers!

 

[Michael Croft]

Thanks Mike, all info gratefully received.

Thorpey, I know not all builders are crooks - I do hold an unrestricted builders licence ACT and did have one in NSW but let it lapse - could always get it back though due to mutual recognition.

I also do pre purchase building inspections and can tell you that dodgy builders are alive and well, particularly in the addition/extension market which may be bigger than new homes in Oz. The problem is that although we have fairly good legislation, enforcement is another issue due to lack of govt agency staffing. If the regulartory agencies were working the courts would be out of work - I don't see that happening anytime soon.

regards, MC

 

[Queen Bee]

I think it seems to be like that here. The government recently introduced a new act called the Construction Contracts Act which basically gives more rights to the subbies for getting their money etc.

It only came in, in April this year and it will be interesting to see if builders try to get around the Act. And who will enforce it!

Another way they're getting around things here and not taking responsibility for their work is they create a new limited liability company for every big job they do. Like they create a company called ABC 2002 Ltd, build a house for Mr & Mrs Bloggs, close that company and create new company called ABC 2003 Ltd, and build a new house etc. Six months after their house is built, Mr & Mrs Bloggs find something wrong with their house, but ABC 2002 Ltd doesn't exist anymore so there's no liability. It's a loophole which government are apparently going to close, but I've been hearing that for a while now and in the meantime, people are still getting ripped off.

Workmanship I think, has gone down the gurgler here too. I can't remember when, but either the 70's or 80's the government decided that apprenticeships weren't the way to go. They bought in unit standards through Polytechs and alot of the young guys did alot of theory but not alot of practical. I think this was a huge mistake, the quality of work is not the same as it use to be. If I was going to hire a builder I'd always choose one that had done an apprenticeship over one that had been through school to learn his trade.

I realise not all builders are crooks but it's like finding a damn needle in a haystack trying to find a good builder. There seem to be more bad ones than good ones.

 

[The Fence]

I realise not all builders are crooks but it's like finding a damn needle in a haystack trying to find a good builder. There seem to be more bad ones than good ones.

True!

The best way to find a good'n is to ask to see some of their other work that closely resembles your proposed works. If they baulk even the slightest bit.......move on to another. They should be pleased and eager to show you their 'evidence' of good workmanship. Also, their previous clients are a great source of getting the lowdown on a builder.


Six months after their house is built, Mr & Mrs Bloggs find something wrong with their house, but ABC 2002 Ltd doesn't exist anymore so there's no liability.

But isn't it the Building License holder who is responsible for warranty ???
Surely you can't go around getting new licenses with each new company created. If so, that is a gaping loophole!

I'm not a Builder as such but a Contractor and licensed to do Landscape Construction and all your outdoor type constructions such as Decks Pergolas etc.
I did not do an apprenticeship and learnt my Trade by working alongside various builders and mentors and eventually applied for a license and got it no problems by proving I could actually do the work satisfactorily. In 17yrs I have only had one complaint to the Dept Fair Trading and that was quashed as a false claim.
I feel there are a lot of customers out there who are out to get what they want for nothing and don't care who they burn in the process too. It cuts both ways.
Another friend of mine, a Builder, has spent a lot of money trying to clear his name (perfect record so far) from a client who just wanted to change things halfway through and not pay for it but has made a claim and immediatelyhad the job changed before being directed to by any (if any) resulting dispute resolution.
He should not even have a case to answer let alone go through the courts and be hassled like this.

Sorry for going on, I guess it comes down to who has the most dough and best lawyer.

Yes, choose your builder carefully, but when you do find a good one, pat them on the back and tell them, and everybody else, what a good job they did!

regards,
Thorpey

 

[Michael Croft]

Hi Queen Bee,

In Oz the licence holder is responsible for the construction until he/she drops dead! There is no get out clause as the courts have decided otherwise.

The loophole is, how much money do you have to persue the company licence and builder. Assume you are a first timer and contract a nationally recognised name to build your dream home. There are many layers to go through to get a result if you have a problem; eg. head office to franchise comapny to contract building company to company licence and eventually to licence nominee. It may not end there as the licence holder may persue the subcontractor who stuffed up even though the buck stops with him/her.

All in all you are 2 years down the track and spending money big time to get a result - no wonder many people don't bother and some less than honest traders/builders rely on this to avoid doing the right thing.

regards, MC

 

[Queen Bee]

Originally posted by Thorpey


But isn't it the Building License holder who is responsible for warranty ???
Surely you can't go around getting new licenses with each new company created. If so, that is a gaping loophole!

It doesn't work that way over here. We haven't got all the rules and regulations that you have. Basically (but don't quote me on this) anybody can say they're a builder. You can join the Master Builder Assn by paying a yearly fee and people seem to think that if they're members then they must be OK. It's actually better to get someone that's a Certified Builder. But as far as I know our Builders don't hold licenses. They either operate as Sole Traders or have Ltd companies. And they hide behind their companies so they don't have to take responsibility because there are no licenses. So yes it is a gaping loophole!

When you build a new house you can get a 5yr Master Builders warranty, but trying to get anything out of them is like trying to get blood out of a stone.

Our company subbed for a builder on a job in March and now he's trying to get out of paying a $8.5k bill from us. I looked up on the internet to see what other companies he's got registered, he has three. But I can only get him through the company that we subbed for him for. But if he goes into receivership I won't get anything. We have now found out that he's been in liquidation before but he's still able to be a shareholder of a company not a Director. His lawyer is the Director of the company that owes us money.

Apparently last time he went under, the company was in his wifes name and he made himself a sub-contractor of his jobs. When he went into receivership, he was the first one to get paid!

So we even pursue the matter the legal way or the illegal way. I personally would like to break his scrawny little neck.

 

[The Fence]

Hi Queenie,

Now that's a crook!

I'm sorry to hear of your woes, I hope you can resolve soon.

What's his name, where does he live, what other companies does he operate under ?
Answer these questions publicly along with the message that he is not doing the right thing and maybe save the next client the pain you are suffering.

Just gotta be careful of slander law.
Or better still, I'll go around and break his knees!


Regards,

Thorpey

 

[Michael Croft]

CAUTION CAUTION

Hi,

A word of caution before you post the name of a firm or person with whom you have an issue/problem; please make sure you can substantiate any claim you may make against them - and possibly prove it in a court of law if necessary.

regards, MC

 

[XBenX]

Good point, the recent actions by some people should be a warning for us all (*cough*)

Go ahead and post, just make sure you can back it up - perhaps we should begin referencing our posts

 

[Queen Bee]

It's OK

I looked in my bank account this morning and he's paid up half of it. I'm wondering if that was because I attemptd to clog up his communication system. Essentially the life-blood of any business these days. haha.

I wrote to him on Monday and have given him till 4pm Monday next week to cough up. I'm not sure what my next strategy is after that.

Clogging up his communications worked though. It's just that he's so arrogant, when you talk to him he has this annoying smirk on his face all the time. He's building this huge boat in his depot, and I mean huge. I'm wondering if a drill would be able to go through the hull? And all these boy racer cars and suped up V8's, new ones. I'm also wondering about the petrol tank, and how much sugar is too much sugar - if u get my drift.

Mmm, will have to sleep on those ones!