Commercial Property Education

Discussion in 'Commercial Property' started by JIT, 1st Dec, 2006.

  1. JIT

    JIT Member

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    Hi,

    How does someone go about learning how to invest in commercial property in Australia?

    There is clearly a plethora of options to learn about residential property investment, but very, very few avenues to learn about commercial property investment.

    Furthermore, there are plenty of resources for commercial property investment in the US and UK, but comparatively very few in Australia.

    Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

    To start off with...

    Books

    'How to Invest in Commercial Property' by Martin Roth and Chris Lang
    'Australia's Top Property Trusts' by John Welch

    Websites

    www.gal.com.au (Gardner and Lang)
    www.propertyoz.com.au (Property Council of Australia)
    www.propertyreview.com.au (commercial property news)
    www.commercialpriceguide.com.au (commercial property auction results)
    www.realcommercial.com.au (property search engine)
    www.domain.com.au (property search engine)
    www.realestateview.com.au (property search engine)
    www.propertylook.com.au (property search engine)
    www.propertyweb.com.au (commercial property search engine and news)

    Newspapers

    The Australian Financial Review
    The Australian, Thursday Edition

    Courses

    www.investcommercialproperty.com.au (Michael McCombie DVD course)

    Investment Research Companies

    www.pir.com.au
    www.aer.com.au
    www.lonsec.com.au
    www.miaresearch.com

    That's not much of a list, but it's a start. I hope that this commercial property forum on Somersoft (thanks Moderators!) can in the future be as good a resource for commercial property investment, as it is now for residential property investment.

    I will add to the list as I find more resources.

    Any other ideas welcome.

    GSJ
     
    Last edited: 1st Dec, 2006
    redwing, Rickardo, Patosan and 2 others like this.
  2. The Y-man

    The Y-man Member

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    I think there's a huge resource on this forum that starts with a "D" and ends with "azzling" ;)

    Cheers,

    The Y-man
     
  3. JIT

    JIT Member

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    Yep, definitely read Dazzling, as well as grossrealisation posts - I certainly have, they will all be in here. I'm sure they will continue to post on these topics.

    Can also do searches on commercial property investing on www.propertyinvesting.com and www.invested.com.au.

    GSJ
     
    Last edited: 1st Dec, 2006
  4. geoffw

    geoffw Untitled

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    The Roth/Lang book is fairly general. It covers something which other books don't- but I don't think it's enough to start investing directly in commercial investment property.
     
  5. JIT

    JIT Member

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    Agree re. the Roth/Lang book. Problem is, I don't know of any book that explains CP investing in a clear and practical way...

    GSJ
     
  6. Dazz

    Dazz Banned

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    G'day GSJ,

    Thought I'd quickly respond.....I reckon the best way to hook in and get up to speed is to simply buy something and learn the ropes, just as you did with the ressy stuff.

    Trouble is, that step usually scares the living wits out of people.....not to mention costing a wee bit too, and they'd rather do some "research" prior to jumping in the deep end.

    It's pretty clear that there is a need for a decent warts and all Ozzy book about the nitty gritty trials and tribulations of non-ressy property stuff.

    I was looking for the same thing 3 years ago, but there was nothing there. All of the elderly chaps I was talking to could have written a decent book 10 or 15 years ago, but I think they are far too busy making big money to put pen to paper trying to explain what they do.

    The flip-side of that of course, is that I feel completely unqualified to write anything about the subject, 'cos I'd be mortified if I ever was approached by one of those chaps and they asked me my 'qualifications'.

    I think there is a lot to be had in writing down your experiences, which I have done to some extent and posted some quite detailed info on this forum (much to the wife's displeasure).

    If I ever get the chance I really should write a nitty gritty 'how to' book on our industrial successes and our commercial attempts that ended in non-starters. My biggest blocker at the moment is time - lack thereof - currently supervising the drilling of oil wells off the coast of WA.....it takes a bit of time and effort managing an operation costing the company $ 500 / minute.....for weeks on end.

    Anyway, let's see what happens in the new year....might call it something like "Tales from the industrial property trenches - what not to do"
     
  7. JIT

    JIT Member

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    Thanks for the reply Dazzling,

    Jumping straight in and learning as you go is an option, but may not suit everyone, as you say. I certainly feel I would need a bit more reading or research before I could do this - a way of minimising risk/loss/stupid mistakes when beginning. The last thing I want is to blow all the equity and income generated from years of resi. property investing, on one bigger CP deal.

    If you, or anyone else, does end up writing up a CP investing book that would be good. Until then, we will have to be a bit more resourceful and find other means of getting up to speed on CP investing. Again, in time, with more interest in CP investing, this forum may provide a good starting point.

    As baby boomers approach retirement and look for more income-generating assets, I think there will be a shift of wealth into this asset class, particularly for SMSF.

    GSJ
     
  8. JIT

    JIT Member

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    The Property Council of Australia website (www.propertyoz.com.au), seems to be by far the best educational resource for CP I've found so far, there's a lot of information and links there.

    For instance:

    - a PDF guide to CP called 'Build Your Wealth' which seems very good
    - books on topics including due diligence, tax, finance, property management, maintenance
    - listings of seminars on each of the CP sectors and their outlooks
    - courses on property and leasing fundamentals, investment, finance, asset management

    I would certainly look at buying some of these books and doing these seminars/courses, in due course. They are definitely not cheap, and perhaps more focussed towards industry professionals, but still seem very relevant to a potential CP investor. The books are not like the stuff you would find at your local bookshop. I would probably start off with some of these books, before looking at the courses.

    Has anyone bought or done any of these books/courses?

    Also, other websites...

    www.morningstar.com.au (property trusts/funds search engine/ratings).

    www.adpia.com.au (Australian Direct Property Investment Association/property syndicates)

    www.afrsmartinvestor.com.au (AFR Smart Investor Magazine)

    And another book...

    'Super Safe Investing In Syndicates & Listed Property Trusts' by Tim Hewat, haven't read this one yet.

    GSJ
     
    Last edited: 3rd Dec, 2006
  9. JIT

    JIT Member

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    Overseas websites/forums

    I might be the only one interested in this thread, but, I will just add the results of some old research on CP education, I did a couple of years back.

    These are some overseas websites/forums, which are quite useful with regards to CP content (from what I can remember, when I did the searches a while back), but obviously not particular to the Australian market:

    www.thecreativeinvestor.com/commercial
    www.creonline.com/commercial-real-estate
    www.creforum.net
    www.dealmakerscafe.com/forum
    www.realestatewebmasters.com/forum.php
    www.askaboutmoney.com
    www.investmentbanter.com
    www.reiclub.com
    www.aireo.com

    Here is a site for a course on commercial and retail leasing:

    www.australianproperty.qld.edu.au/?page=shortcourses

    GSJ
     
  10. The Y-man

    The Y-man Member

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    You are not alone! :)

    Cheers,

    The Y-man
     
  11. JoannaK

    JoannaK Member

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    Hi GSJ,

    I have some commercial experience, both from my property management days, and as a developer and keeper of our commercial properties.

    Really, the only way you can learn is to ask, ask, ask. Sure, read the books; i'm sure there's many out there (i wouldn't know, i haven't read any to be honest), and do courses (property council is a standout leader here, although a touch on the expensive side), but nothing beats the good old wisdom you get from someone who's been there done that.

    One of the main things to keep in mind is that the value is almost entirely dependant upon the lease on the property.

    It is definately a different ball game to the residential side of things, and a lot more satisfying in my mind.
     
  12. JIT

    JIT Member

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    Ah, that's good - thanks Y-man!

    Yes, I agree, I will certainly be doing more asking, eg, on this forum with new threads - in due course, and I'm sure others will too.

    Thanks,

    GSJ
     
  13. bundy1964

    bundy1964 Looking for a new place

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    One of the best things I found to learn from was to go to auctions and do a lot of listening to the old players.
     
  14. JIT

    JIT Member

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    Nice tip, definitely worth a shot.

    GSJ
     
  15. JIT

    JIT Member

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  16. markp

    markp Member

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    Befriend a commercial real estate agent. They have a wealth of knowledge. The larger firms produce their own investment reports. All free, filled with more info. and research than you need.
     
  17. JIT

    JIT Member

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    Yes, and my understanding is that they are probably far better than residential real estate agents in this regard.

    GSJ
     
  18. markp

    markp Member

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    Yes indeed. True professionals, the standard can be, and usually is very high.
     
  19. Sam_H

    Sam_H Member

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    Hi Guys

    Just wondering if anyone had purchased/listened to the Michael McCombie seminar/dvd set?
    The dvd set of 6 costs around $500 and sounds like it could be fairly useful?

    Any feedback appreciated!


    cheers

    Sam
     
  20. Michael Yardney

    Michael Yardney Member

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    Over the last few months I have spend quite some time putting together the basis of a seminar on commercial property - Getting Started in Commercial Property Investing

    I will probably be holding this one day seminar in late February 2007 in Melbourne and possibly Sydney & Brisbane depending on the interest.

    A very subsstantial portion of my property portfolio is commercial -shops, warehouses, offices and bulky goods stores. I have even done one (very successful) industrial broad acre subdivision.

    I was intending to conduct this semianr because I believe there is a strong demand for this type of information and this thread shows it.

    Could I please ask interested forum members to suggest topics or areas they would like to see covered at this seminar.

    further details will eventually be circulated through Property Investment Update