Company help you earn $50,000 ????

[paradox]

I recently came across a company that claim to help you get motivated, set up your financial structure for maximum tax effectiveness and protection, help you source out investment properties, renovate them, and sell them for a profit of between $10000 - $50000 each.

All sounds too good to be true, and I am just wondering if anybody has had any experience dealing with them.

The company, "Superior Wealth Creation", is Brisbane based in the Fortitude Valley. And the Boss is "Andrew Carr", supposed to be a self made multi-millionaire before age 30.

As they do charge a tidy sum for their service and would get to know your financial detials quite intimately, I am quite concerned with getting more than my fingers burnt. Any comment would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Iggy_Type_R]

Hehehe, I posted the same question about a year ago (on the old board), to no response.

I was personally involved with SFL, and I know quite a few people (5-6) that were involved with Superior, all of whom are no longer involved.

Have you done the $450 report yet?

My thoughts on Andrew's business is that it's a great concept, but I think the execution is just not there. Out of everyone I knew who signed up for the full works and was waiting for them to source a property, they were still waiting after a few months, with no luck.

If you are happy to wait 6-12 months for that one "killer property" then it may be for you... but I think you could do better yourself.

If you want more detailed info, please PM me.

 

[paradox]

Thanks for your input, Iggy. Have just PM you.

Just wondering if anybody else might also have some experience with the company. It would be just so perfect if it can deliver what it promises to. Perfect for somebody who cannot possibly do everything because of time or geographical constraint like myself.

 

[shayne]

Hi, I work for Superior Wealth Creation. Hopefully this may answer any queries that have been raised.

The comments regarding delays in finding properties under the banner of SFL were fair - since then we have put proper structures in place and now have about 200 clients Australia wide whom we have helped. Andrew Carr is the founder and the strategies that he used to create a net worth of $1.5m in 19 months when he was 24 are effectively the basis for the services we offer. We have been in operation for 6 years and only deal in Brisbane Property. Andrew is now 30 and his net worth is in 9 figures, based on his substantial property holdings.

In a nutshell we help clients build wealth through locating properties on their behalf that can have value added to them to create instant equity. This helps them create a property renovation business that is essentially passive and allows thme to enjopy the benfits of renovations etc without the hassle by leveraging our time and expertise.

Typically this is a cosmetic renovation (paint, render, new kitchen/bathroom, polish floors etc) and we can also facilitate the renovation on our clients behalf. As we have a number of projects on the go at any one time we get discounts on supplies etc which we pass on to our clients.

We charge a client joining fee of $5775 which includes finding the first property, on average about $3-4,000 to manage the renovation and for the next property we would charge a finders fee of $2750 and then the management fee. The projects we find make a net profit of $10-20k at the bottom end (net of all fees, costs including interest, legals etc) up to $50k or more.

As clients build wealth we help them with other strategies and some of them choose to work with Andrew in one on one basis.

As a guide we may take 6-8 weeks to find a suitable property for a client (sometimes a bit longer) but is now a lot better than the 6 montsh quoted in the earlier posts. We are typically getting properties in the $220- $350k range and the project cost is typically $30-50k depending on what is involved.


You can look at our web site www.superiorwealthcreation.com , email me at [email protected] or call me on 07 3252 5500 if you would like to know more.

 

[Aceyducey]

Paradox,

From reviewing their site & posts, I would say that their service is nothing that you cannot achieve yourself with a little effort.

It gets down to your confidence level and time

Personally I prefer to learn and do all that stuff myself as I get the value of the deep understanding and also get the margin that middlemen like Superior Wealth Creation charge in my pocket.

If you do work with them, make sure it is clear on paper what they are doing for you and that you have means of redress if they do not perform...same as any other business relationship really

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[shayne]

Aceyducey,

Whilst I agree with your comments in general in every case there is the big question - do you have the time to do this yourself?

By building a team around you and using their services to leverage your time (the one thing we can't get more of) you can build a business that creates passive income from property renovations.

Yes we charge a fee for our services but if you could make $20k in 4 months without having to do a thing other than sign a few bits of paper would that be of interest? You could be renovating another property at the same time, working on your career, spending time with your family or practising your golf swing all whilst we are facilitating another project on your behalf.

Sure you may make more on your project by doing it yourself but for those who don't have the knowledge, expertise, inclination or time we provide a solution and $20-50k passive income per project (after all costs) is not a bad outcome. After all isn't the goal to make the money without the hassle?

Regards

Shayne Whitehouse

 

[NigelW]

Originally posted by shayne
Aceyducey,

Whilst I agree with your comments in general in every case there is the big question - do you have the time to do this yourself?

By building a team around you and using their services to leverage your time (the one thing we can't get more of) you can build a business that creates passive income from property renovations.

Yes we charge a fee for our services but if you could make $20k in 4 months without having to do a thing other than sign a few bits of paper would that be of interest? You could be renovating another property at the same time, working on your career, spending time with your family or practising your golf swing all whilst we are facilitating another project on your behalf.

Sure you may make more on your project by doing it yourself but for those who don't have the knowledge, expertise, inclination or time we provide a solution and $20-50k passive income per project (after all costs) is not a bad outcome. After all isn't the goal to make the money without the hassle?

Regards

Shayne Whitehouse

Those are all fair comments Shayne. Ultimately it's a question of what the investor's preference is - hands on, hands off or somewhere in between. I pay for someone to iron my shirts...but I like to take a direct and active interest in my investments - but that's just my choice.

One query I would like to raise with you though is that you said:

Andrew is now 30 and his net worth is in 9 figures, based on his substantial property holdings

Now 9 figures is $100,000,000 ie one hundred million minimum net worth... phew! wouldn't that put Andrew into the BRW200 list (cut off was around $85m from memory...

sorry to be picky but I think you might have on too many zeroes there?!

N.

 

[Aceyducey]

Replies below

Originally posted by shayne
do you have the time to do this yourself?

Yes I do. I have retired from the corporate world & do it full-time...

However you CAN do it part-time as well...particularly for one to one-and-a-half income families

By building a team around you and using their services to leverage your time (the one thing we can't get more of) you can build a business that creates passive income from property renovations.

True, but building a team CAN be taken too far...you have to remain in control of your own financial future, not hand it over to someone who has their own interests at heart.

Yes we charge a fee for our services but if you could make $20k in 4 months without having to do a thing other than sign a few bits of paper would that be of interest? You could be renovating another property at the same time, working on your career, spending time with your family or practising your golf swing all whilst we are facilitating another project on your behalf.

$20K in four months is a waste of time. I prefer to make $100K in four months by self-renovating one property.

Based on the time I spend actually renovating, it is quite feasible to have several projects running concurrently & still spend more time with my family than I would working (or playing golf) - I still don't see the value proposition.

Sure you may make more on your project by doing it yourself but for those who don't have the knowledge, expertise, inclination or time we provide a solution and $20-50k passive income per project (after all costs) is not a bad outcome. After all isn't the goal to make the money without the hassle?

Knowledge & expertise can be learnt....I've learnt everything I know! Every reno I do I learn more.

Going into a project without understanding the details makes you very vulnerable towards those who do, but have their own agendas.

If your inclination is not in renos, don't do them!!!
Go do what your inclination tells you to do - it is possible to make money in virtually anything, if you enjoy what you do you you are more likely to be successful at it.

'20-50K passive income' - don't you mean capital gain?
To transform this into passive income involves either selling the property (and facing tax implications plus loss of ongoing rental income and future CG) OR borrowing against the gain - 'eating' your equity.

If this is the advice you give clients I would be very cautious of ever dealing with your organisation...it is not well-thought out and is inaccurate.


BTW - the goal is NOT to make money without hassle....There are ALWAYS hassles (sometimes greater ones when you are relying on others to do the work on your behalf & you don't understand what they are doing, what it should cost or how long it should take).

The goal is to build a sustainable asset base that delivers an ongoing passive income.

Getting others to build your asset base for you is a very risky approach - you are relying on their financial considerations to match your own, and frequently this is not the case.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[paradox]

Thanks everybody for the responses to my post.

While I agree with Aceyducey's view that the ideal way for someone to do it would be to learn and do it all by him/herself, I can see the value of using a company like the SWC. Afterall, nobody can do it all by him/herself. As Nigel has posted: it probably comes down to a matter of preference for the investor. Some of the situations I can see where using a service like the SWC are when the investor:

-lives remotely away from the city
-just doesn't have the time or the inclination to do the renovation him/herself
-is new to renovation and use the SWC as a stepping stone to learn more
-can leaverage the effort and time by having more projects going at the same time
-want to concentrate on areas where he/she is good at and ultilize comparative advantage of someone else

I would love to be able to do it all myself to reap every bits of profit. But living 1000km away, working full time as well as studying in a course and heavily involved in trading, it just hasn't worked for me. It is not so much a question of making $20,000 through SWC or $100000 by myself but rather $20000 or nothing at all!

I guess then it does come down to the question of whether SWC can deliver what they have promised. As Aceyducey has said, one has to be careful as nobody else would ever have the same financial consideration as you do, and hence Caveat Emptor! But then again the same holds true for even just hiring a painter. I sometimes have to remind myself not to become overly cynical about everybody else.

Would Shayne be able to comment on how SWC can safeguard the interest of the investor? Can you provide us with a detail list of conditions of the agreement including the strength of your team(including the builders, trades people, purchase team...etc)?

 

[shayne]

Originally posted by NigelW
One query I would like to raise with you though is that you said:



Now 9 figures is $100,000,000 ie one hundred million minimum net worth... phew! wouldn't that put Andrew into the BRW200 list (cut off was around $85m from memory...

sorry to be picky but I think you might have on too many zeroes there?!

N.

Nigel - No, right number of zeroes.

 

[shayne]

Originally posted by paradox

Would Shayne be able to comment on how SWC can safeguard the interest of the investor? Can you provide us with a detail list of conditions of the agreement including the strength of your team(including the builders, trades people, purchase team...etc)? [/B]

Paradox

In short we don't guarantee anything but as we have grown through word of mouth referrals and people's experience with us as well as having done this for six years the proof of returns can be verified by looking at results on our web site or if you want to email me at [email protected] I will let you talk to some of our clients.

All our team are property investors and most were clients of SWC before they joined as staff. On my own I made about $250k from property last year - this year I will use SWC's strategies and services to make about 3 times that with a lot less work. I have 3 kids under the age of 4 and I'd rather be spending time with them than scraping off old paint.

We can not guarantee anything as after all we can't predict the future. We can be realistically conservative but we don't determine the sales price - we can estimate it but the market and your psychology (ie whether you take the first offer or not) determine what a property will sell for.

We comply with all regulations etc and the builders and tradespeople we use are all licenced. Our renovations are of a high standard as strategies can change from trick and flick to trick and hold (as most of our clients are doing now ).

Aceyducey's commenst are all fair but in some ways doing it his way is that he's bought himself a job ie if he stops renovating himself he stops making $$. Our solution is passive income from what is essentially a "hands on" property strategy of adding value to properties and creating equity growth irrespective of market conditions.

If you or anyone else is interested in talking further call me on 07 3252 5500.

Regards

Shayne Whitehouse

 

[shayne]

Originally posted by Aceyducey
[
"However you CAN do it part-time as well...particularly for one to one-and-a-half income families"


Absolutely but not everyone can nor wants to


"True, but building a team CAN be taken too far...you have to remain in control of your own financial future, not hand it over to someone who has their own interests at heart"


Acey - fairs fair our interests are to help our clients - we have created well over 50 millionaires and our clients do have the ultimate say in what they say or do - we just offer advice.


"$20K in four months is a waste of time. I prefer to make $100K in four months by self-renovating one property."


$20k in four months is a waste of time? Want to run a poll on that? Some of our clients have made $100k in four months and not had to lift a finger - should they consider doing it your way a "waste of time"? I don't think so. Whether its $10k or $20k or $100k - its money they didn't have before!

If we were to renovate the same property the costs for us to manage the renovation on your behalf would be say somewhere between $3-7k so over 4 months... and if that allowed you to do another property making another $100k....Thats how some of our clients leverage their time.


"Based on the time I spend actually renovating, it is quite feasible to have several projects running concurrently & still spend more time with my family than I would working (or playing golf) - I still don't see the value proposition"


I have no problems with what you do - a lot of clients do it too but for those who can't or don't want to....


"Going into a project without understanding the details makes you very vulnerable towards those who do, but have their own agendas."


Of course clients need to be aware of all the risks involved - we don't do this in any secretive way


" '20-50K passive income' - don't you mean capital gain?
To transform this into passive income involves either selling the property (and facing tax implications plus loss of ongoing rental income and future CG) OR borrowing against the gain - 'eating' your equity."


Depending on your structure and what you do yes you could pay CGT, tax or any number of otther unfair and unjust impositions. I never said it was tax free.


"If this is the advice you give clients I would be very cautious of ever dealing with your organisation...it is not well-thought out and is inaccurate."


Acey - this is obviously not your cup of tea but since we are talking. You claim $20k is a "waste of time" as you make $100k in 4 months. You also say that you are running "several projects' at once. All in all thats pretty impressive - perhaps you could share your strategies with us all.


"BTW - the goal is NOT to make money without hassle....There are ALWAYS hassles (sometimes greater ones when you are relying on others to do the work on your behalf & you don't understand what they are doing, what it should cost or how long it should take)."


I'll take less hassle any day - I do need to get value for money and I need a good team to help me but if those are in place why do you want any stress?


"The goal is to build a sustainable asset base that delivers an ongoing passive income."


Including paying taxes? (only kidding) I agree totally its about creating wealth - thats how we help our clients.


"Getting others to build your asset base for you is a very risky approach - you are relying on their financial considerations to match your own, and frequently this is not the case"


Of course there is some risk but what we do is different to some others - as an example we don't : buy off units off the plan, receive third party commissions for property transactions, take profits, do seminars to flog 3 day workshops etc.

I am sure what we do is not for everyone but for some it may be a way that they can build wealth as well as doing other important things and that can't be all that bad.

Cheers

Shayne Whitehouse

PS sorry about some of the formatting with my responses to Acey's comments

 

[Les]

G'day Shayne,

First, Thank You for taking the time to answer a whole raft of questions. In CE, often the questions are challenging (for good reason) - you appear to have handled all of them well, and in good humour - all of which does you no harm at all.

And, to other posters, there is a wealth of different perspectives out there - and all put succinctly. Well done to those posters/questioners.

For other readers, it is encouraging to me to see such open-ness in the answers that have been provided by those that have posted.

Before continuing on, please note that I have no comment to make (either way) re this company - I don't know them, so cannot comment - but I believe that Shayne has done a sterling job in answering any/all questions.

From my perspective, the one major point that is addressed (and answered differently by different posters) is "How involved do YOU want to become?" For some, who might be challenged with making the move (especially in another city) could this be useful to you?

Also, we often hear the comment "Better 50% of something, than 100% of nothing" - does this also apply?

Could an operation like this be the catalyst that allows you to "have a go" at a distant city? Or is this just too risky? If the latter, what would you require to know to make it less risky (i.e. within your comfort level?) A reference from a friend? Would Shayne's offer to put you onto other customers carry some weight with you? An affirmative article in API??

This thread has me interested - and I'd like to hear other questions, responses, etc.

Regards,

CE Moderator

 

[Aceyducey]

Originally posted by shayne
Aceyducey's comments are all fair but in some ways doing it his way is that he's bought himself a job ie if he stops renovating himself he stops making $$.

Shayne,

Good comments, but untrue about buying myself a job.

As currently it only takes me in real-terms around 4 months a year to do the amount of work I choose to do, this leaves lots of time for family & fun (and other business endeavours...including posting in this forum).

At any point in time I can choose to step out of renos and go and do anything else I please. There is no taxman or boss breathing down my neck, no strict deadlines to meet & no work or go bankrupt pressure.

At the time I step out of renos I would consider bringing in a project manager to finish off any current (and future projects).

But they would have to be providing returns of substantially more than the 20K for 3 months on a single property that you quoted earlier or I'd just buy & hold any potential reno properties and employ my own project manager full-time to develop them.

Be that as it may, following Les's comments I agree that these type of services are valuable for people who want an easy way in...it's just not a cheap or as profitable way to go.

Shayne, how committed is your organisation to knowledge transfer to clients who are using your service as a way to learn about the market & start out in development?

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[shayne]

Originally posted by Aceyducey
Shayne,

Good comments, but untrue about buying myself a job.

As currently it only takes me in real-terms around 4 months a year to do the amount of work I choose to do, this leaves lots of time for family & fun (and other business endeavours...including posting in this forum).

At any point in time I can choose to step out of renos and go and do anything else I please. There is no taxman or boss breathing down my neck, no strict deadlines to meet & no work or go bankrupt pressure.

At the time I step out of renos I would consider bringing in a project manager to finish off any current (and future projects).

But they would have to be providing returns of substantially more than the 20K for 3 months on a single property that you quoted earlier or I'd just buy & hold any potential reno properties and employ my own project manager full-time to develop them.

Be that as it may, following Les's comments I agree that these type of services are valuable for people who want an easy way in...it's just not a cheap or as profitable way to go.

Shayne, how committed is your organisation to knowledge transfer to clients who are using your service as a way to learn about the market & start out in development?

Cheers,

Aceyducey

Aceyducey

Firstly $20k is closer to the bottom than the top end of returns but I will not say everyone makes $50k+ on a deal but some people do. Depending on how much equity a client has to play with, what LVR they are comfortable with will determine what value of property they buy ($230 - $340k is a guide and these are mid ranged priced houses in Brisbane) and returns can be up to $100k but we tell clients to expect a return of say $20k at bottom and say $50k plus at the higher end.

We also have clients who have renovated other propertries and made $200k in 4 months and one of our team in here made $180k on a block units which he only spent $10k on.

As for passing on knowledge - our clients have access to a team of 22 specialists who are all property investors as well as being able to access the strategies of someone who has a level of success in property investment in six years that most of us can only dream about. They can learn as much as they want or be completely hands off - its whatever they choose to do. the reason I choose to work here was that I now get to work with a team of like minded people and headed up by the wealthiest person I know and boy have I learnt a lot!

I appreciate what we do is not for everyone and some people are at a level where renovations of houses is not the most suitable type of investment but other strategies (such as unit block reno's or development strategies) are employed that give better returns for the capital they have available. Its all about wealth creation and what strategies you need to use at the beginning are different to what you will use to get from $1m of net worth to $2m or from $2m to $5m etc.

Using you as an example Acey, we would not neccessarily talk to you about reno's but other strategies such as mentoring with Andrew. Its not for everyone but for those who choose it it make a huge difference both in terms of their wealth and also psychology...and the latter is probably the most important factor in wealth creation.

For you and for all those who have read this thread I hope that i have answered all the general queries - any specifics it is probably easier to email me or call.

Regards

Shayne Whitehouse

 

[Aceyducey]

Shayne,

Again good comments - I'm not sorry to give you and your organisation a hard time as it can be hard to distinguish which services are dairy (milkers) & which are wheat (growers).

When we begin playing in QLD I'll probably give you a call to chat further and explore those other opportunities.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[shayne]

Originally posted by Aceyducey
Shayne,

Again good comments - I'm not sorry to give you and your organisation a hard time as it can be hard to distinguish which services are dairy (milkers) & which are wheat (growers).

When we begin playing in QLD I'll probably give you a call to chat further and explore those other opportunities.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

Aceyducey,

I'm not sorry either - after all this is the forum for it. But if you are up in Brisbane I'd be glad to catch up coffee at our offices in the Valley or maybe a steak at Brekkie Creek.

Regards

Shayne Whitehouse

 

[Iggy_Type_R]

Hi everyone (again) , been a bit flat out, but am certainly happy to see that this thread has turned a lot more lively!

Ok here is my 5 cents worth of comments:

As I said previously, the concept is great. I was living in Melbourne at the time when I found out about SFL. So I was 2000kms away from Brissy and wanting to invest there. If the execution has improved (which Shayne strongly says it has) it could be a good thing to "try on for size".

However, from my experience with SFL I learnt a lot (even tho it was a negative one!). I have since bought several properites 3000kms from Melbourne, and without ever seeing them. They are fantastic investments with +ve cashflow and excellent equity all via telephone/internet.

Anyway paradox, my point is, is DISTANCE really the ONLY thing standing between you and your success?

Cheers,

Iggy

 

[paradox]

Hi Iggy!

Good to see you again! Yes, it sure was great to have the many responses from the likes of Aceducey and Shayne. I have been most impressed.

Of course there are many paths to success. Been trying my hands in share investing and trading(a dangerous mix), to just buying and holding properties; yet adding value to properties by renovating is an area that I have been most keen to get into yet greatly impeded by TIME and yes...DISTRANCE. I must say I do not feel experienced nor comfortable enough to buy just through the internet and phone, especially in the current climate where nobody really know where the property market would be heading. Would definitely love to hear and learn about what you have been doing though.

Have been in touch with one of the consultants at AFL, will keep you posted on how it is going. Hopefully it would be a positive experience.

 

[Iggy_Type_R]

The way that I originally started buying in Townsville was through a friend in Brisbane. He said "have a look at this block of flats." and I did... and within one hour signed the contract! The numbers worked. And slowly I built a good r'ship with the RE agent there, and then solicitor, town planner... now looking for renovators, etc to get a good r/ship with. So as shayne said, you are building a team around you.

It was a "scary" experience at first... but then I get more scared thinking aobut what will happen if I DON'T buy more property.

Anyway, I am moving up to Brisbane in just over a month to do property full time.

I've made an average of $120,000 per deal or so on each buy, reno, revalue and hold. Just need to do two a year really to keep a comfy lifestyle. Of course I am after a hell of a lot more!