contact to check load-bearing walls in apartments

[mimimao]

Hi all,

I’m looking to purchase an old apartment to renovate. The ones I’m interested in (and can afford) are all 1970s brick (inside and out) walk-up apartments. The renovation I need to do will all involve demolition of some parts of the existing brick internal walls. I have done searches on somersoft and read some very useful old threads.

My question is who should I get to have a look at the walls to ensure they are non-load bearing? I had always thought structural engineers would be the ones to go to but the ones I knew were from previous development projects and all seemed pretty busy and not wanting to do small things like these. My partner then found some “expert inspection advice” service on Archicentre and rang them to enquire. Apparently they could send an architect on site and inform you if these walls are structural or not and also the practical feasibility of the renovation work for a fee of $590.

Does anyone have any experience with this? I have three potential sites and all involve some bits of wall removal so I’ll need to find a good contact. I’m in metro Melbourne so anyone could recommend a contact that would be most helpful!


Many thanks in advance,
mm

 

[vaughan]

You'll also need to get permission from the strata before doing any work on structural walls.

In fact, get the strata permission first before spending money on the engineers advice because the strata is quite likely to say "no thanks" to your ideas for structural changes.

 

[handyandy]

Hi all,

I’m looking to purchase an old apartment to renovate. The ones I’m interested in (and can afford) are all 1970s brick (inside and out) walk-up apartments. The renovation I need to do will all involve demolition of some parts of the existing brick internal walls. I have done searches on somersoft and read some very useful old threads.

My question is who should I get to have a look at the walls to ensure they are non-load bearing? I had always thought structural engineers would be the ones to go to but the ones I knew were from previous development projects and all seemed pretty busy and not wanting to do small things like these.

I can just about guarantee that all the walls in a 1970's walk up are structural walls.

The method of building at that time was that the concrete floors was poured for the next level sitting the floor on all the walls below.

They generally didn't use any integrated beams except maybe the 1st floor where there may have been some cantilevering happening.

If you were looking at the top storey unit then you could remove some of the walls but that would depend on the structure of the roof and it's construction. Basically should be easier to change the supports for the roof and can do the work in the roof cavity.

More recently build blocks do have non structural walls with the concrete floors designed to span the unit space. These walls could still be brick or block. In a lot of instances they started building the internal walls using metal studs and gyprock.

I would think an architect would be a waste of time as the strata will only except some sort of certificate (including indemnity) from an appropriate engineer.

I have seen these type of job where the engineer specified steel beams to take the load in place of limited brick walls.

The other aspect of changing structural element in a unit is that you will be expected to take responsibility (shared with engineer) for any future potential problems that occur as a result of the change in structure.


Cheers

 

[Propertunity]

I can just about guarantee that all the walls in a 1970's walk up are structural walls.

I was thinking exactly the same thing!

Unless you are on the top floor, all walls in these 70's blocks are almost certainly load bearing.

You'll need an engineer's certificate, BC approval, and possibly a new by-law where you and any future purchasers of this unit take on the liability (along with the engineer), forever.

 

[Melbournian]

Hi all,

I’m looking to purchase an old apartment to renovate. The ones I’m interested in (and can afford) are all 1970s brick (inside and out) walk-up apartments. The renovation I need to do will all involve demolition of some parts of the existing brick internal walls. I have done searches on somersoft and read some very useful old threads.

My question is who should I get to have a look at the walls to ensure they are non-load bearing? I had always thought structural engineers would be the ones to go to but the ones I knew were from previous development projects and all seemed pretty busy and not wanting to do small things like these. My partner then found some “expert inspection advice” service on Archicentre and rang them to enquire. Apparently they could send an architect on site and inform you if these walls are structural or not and also the practical feasibility of the renovation work for a fee of $590.

Does anyone have any experience with this? I have three potential sites and all involve some bits of wall removal so I’ll need to find a good contact. I’m in metro Melbourne so anyone could recommend a contact that would be most helpful!


Many thanks in advance,
mm

first thing to do is to get the structural plans from council (could be 4-6-8 weeks depending on the council) then there are structural engineers who will then assess the plans to see which walls are load bearing onot. i can PM you the contact of a person who can assist you with this. $590 is pretty expensive - if you ask me for an architect as you need a structural engineer to certify which walls are or are not.

But really if the walls are all brick and all the walls through to the false ceiling or to the ceiling to the slab above they are load bearing. with those 1970s walls - majority are load bearing - so it is a bit of a hassle and costly to be done.

i have removed walls in apartments numerous times and i have also done load bearing ones for a 3rd floor apartment in St kilda - once you get the plans and the clarification from the engineer which walls are load bearing, he will also advise you which areas to put beams to replace the walls that are taken down.

You will now need a quote from a builder who specializes in this. they would normally put steel beams in place to remove the load bearing walls.

once you got all of that - quotes, report from engineer, contact your Owners corporation and put in a request for alteration of your building. Make sure you list the builder, insurance policies etc and then take it from there.

There is a bit of groundwork to prepare before going to the owners corporation. those steel beams don't come cheap to be installed etc which is why i avoid all these character deco apartments -they're really a no added value when it comes to situations like these.

 

[Melbournian]

You'll need an engineer's certificate, BC approval, and possibly a new by-law where you and any future purchasers of this unit take on the liability (along with the engineer), forever.

there is no by laws - if the renovations are done correctly and permits are issued that it is the responsibility of the structural engineer, builder and building surveyor that everything complies with regulation and once it is signed off. Obviously if there are leaks or cracks etc - the owners corp goes after the current owner.

i can tell you in freshwater place building in southbank on the higher end floors etc, there are even people combining two apartments into one etc

 

[marg4000]

IF (and it's a big IF) you do get body corporate approval for structural changes, you will have to accept all responsibility for future maintenance that your changes require. This may mean legal fights in the future.

This obligation will transfer to any future purchaser of the unit, so may be a turn off for buyers.

We owned a unit in a complex where one unit owner wanted to change a window to a sliding door and build a small deck. (In Qld) it required 100% consent from the other owners, and there was a clause that the owner (and any future owner) accepted full responsibility for the maintenance and costs of any ongoing problems with the altered part of the exterior.

You will need detailed plans and engineer's reports which may have to be circulated to all other unit owners for their approval.
Marg

 

[Melbournian]

not sure about brisbane - but when i did take a load bearing wall down - there were no such conditions. and yes it is a bit IF - very unlikely - had it been non-load bearing walls - pretty straight forward

But if the upper floor suddenly sinks or even worst crashes - the owners corp goes after you but if everything was ticked off - you can go after the structural engineer, building surveyor etc as they are responsible to ensure everything complies to building and safety regulations.

depends if you have Committee within the owners corp or if it is professionally managed - all you really need is approval from them in VIC - but if it is self managed with say 10 units and everybody wants a say - life is gonna be pretty hard

when i sold the place - (all that is required is to show the final inspection from the building surveyor). no questions asked.

 

[handyandy]

But if the upper floor suddenly sinks or even worst crashes - the owners corp goes after you but if everything was ticked off - you can go after the structural engineer, building surveyor etc as they are responsible to ensure everything complies to building and safety regulations.

The contract is between the engineer etc and the current owner. As a rule (and being on a number of executives) I would be going after the current owner of the unit and other parties not simply going after the engineer etc.

depends if you have Committee within the owners corp or if it is professionally managed - all you really need is approval from them in VIC - but if it is self managed with say 10 units and everybody wants a say - life is gonna be pretty hard

I couldn't see any way that a strata manager is going to take on the responsibility of approving a substantial change without involving the executive. They would have to be crazy.

Cheers

 

[Melbournian]

I couldn't see any way that a strata manager is going to take on the responsibility of approving a substantial change without involving the executive. They would have to be crazy.

Cheers

some don't have committees and only a owners corp manager - and yes the owners corp will go after the owner. it is the owner who needs to go after the respective engineers, builders and surveyors.

 

[mimimao]

first thing to do is to get the structural plans from council (could be 4-6-8 weeks depending on the council) then there are structural engineers who will then assess the plans to see which walls are load bearing onot. i can PM you the contact of a person who can assist you with this. $590 is pretty expensive - if you ask me for an architect as you need a structural engineer to certify which walls are or are not.

But really if the walls are all brick and all the walls through to the false ceiling or to the ceiling to the slab above they are load bearing. with those 1970s walls - majority are load bearing - so it is a bit of a hassle and costly to be done.

i have removed walls in apartments numerous times and i have also done load bearing ones for a 3rd floor apartment in St kilda - once you get the plans and the clarification from the engineer which walls are load bearing, he will also advise you which areas to put beams to replace the walls that are taken down.

You will now need a quote from a builder who specializes in this. they would normally put steel beams in place to remove the load bearing walls.

once you got all of that - quotes, report from engineer, contact your Owners corporation and put in a request for alteration of your building. Make sure you list the builder, insurance policies etc and then take it from there.

There is a bit of groundwork to prepare before going to the owners corporation. those steel beams don't come cheap to be installed etc which is why i avoid all these character deco apartments -they're really a no added value when it comes to situations like these.

Thanks guys for the reply. Just to give you a quick update. I contacted two body corps of the three properties I'm interested in and both replied that if the changes are non-structural then they don't need to know about it. So my next step is to get an engineer on site to give me some info.

Melbournian, if you could pm me your contact it would be much appreciated! thanks a lot.

I'll keep you guys posted about the progress.

 

[Ekaye79]

Mimimao, I'm in a similar position - doing a bathroom and kitchen reno - top floor unit. I got a builder in who had a look around in the roof and said the walls I wanted removed we not load bearing which was great - because it means the best case renovation scenario is achievable for me and I wont have to deal with the BC (they are truly hopeless). I would like to get an engineers report just to be safe before the builder starts knocking down the walls. This is a 30's deco building with a low pitched steel roof sitting on a wooden frame. Do I still need to get the structural plans if I get an engineer in? Can't they assess this by climbing up through the manhole and going into the roof cavity?
Melbournian, I'd also like the details of your contact (feel free to PM me). Thanks

 

[beech]

Thanks guys for the reply. Just to give you a quick update. I contacted two body corps of the three properties I'm interested in and both replied that if the changes are non-structural then they don't need to know about it. So my next step is to get an engineer on site to give me some info.

Melbournian, if you could pm me your contact it would be much appreciated! thanks a lot.

I'll keep you guys posted about the progress.

Yea let us know how you go....I would be interested in a follow up

 

[Melbournian]

Thanks guys for the reply. Just to give you a quick update. I contacted two body corps of the three properties I'm interested in and both replied that if the changes are non-structural then they don't need to know about it. So my next step is to get an engineer on site to give me some info.

Melbournian, if you could pm me your contact it would be much appreciated! thanks a lot.

I'll keep you guys posted about the progress.

Sorry only saw your post - just PM you.

 

[Melbournian]

Mimimao, I'm in a similar position - doing a bathroom and kitchen reno - top floor unit. I got a builder in who had a look around in the roof and said the walls I wanted removed we not load bearing which was great - because it means the best case renovation scenario is achievable for me and I wont have to deal with the BC (they are truly hopeless). I would like to get an engineers report just to be safe before the builder starts knocking down the walls. This is a 30's deco building with a low pitched steel roof sitting on a wooden frame. Do I still need to get the structural plans if I get an engineer in? Can't they assess this by climbing up through the manhole and going into the roof cavity?
Melbournian, I'd also like the details of your contact (feel free to PM me). Thanks

the engineer would normally want the plans from council as the report they give would be a legal document confirming their asessment. Just the report alone cost like $700-800 which is the lower end to $1000-$1500.

that's the problem with those 30s deco, the plans may no longer exists.

i have PM you the contact of my builder - he has the contacts to make it happen