Conveyancing Costs NSW

Terry - No the solicitor mucked it up despite getting external tax advice. (I argue the tax accountant has a PI claim coming from the solicitor). The solicitor even queried the tax advice (all in writing !!) but was again misled. This led to two (of three) trust beneficiaries being disadvantaged on entitlements. One overpaid and two underpaid. The beneficiary with advantage refusing to repay the excess.

This illustrates that despite using a solicitor for a conveyance (or any other area of law) its wise to ensure that its an area in which they have depth of experience. Just because someone is a solicitor doesn't make them good at conveyancing. The solicitor in this case wasn't experienced in estate admin and relied solely on a third party who got it wrong.
 
Paul that sounds like a tax advice issue rather than a covneyancing issue??

But I guess you point is not to advise on areas you don't know nothing about - agree on that!
 
I prefer to be viewed in the same light as a GP rather than a dental hygienist, as, .... a conveyancer can fix the problem e.g. handle the conveyance from start to finish.

Ok sometimes (rarely I might add) we may have to refer a client to a surgeon
e.g. a solicitor.

A lot of professions have tiers even solicitors use barristers to attend court and at the bar there are tiers as well e.g. a silk.

I wonder if barristers view solicitors in the same light as solicitors view conveyancers, with disrespect for the professional work we do do.

Fleur
 
I prefer to be viewed in the same light as a GP rather than a dental hygienist, as, .... a conveyancer can fix the problem e.g. handle the conveyance from start to finish.

Ok sometimes (rarely I might add) we may have to refer a client to a surgeon
e.g. a solicitor.
On the one hand, I agree with you that a conveyancer is certainly a professional and some of the comments in this thread do strike me as a little patronising.

On the other hand, I know that several of the dozen or two transactions I've been involved in has been "not straightforward", none of which was anticipated to be complex beforehand, and some of which required considering litigation.

Where there appear to be no cost savings over a solicitor experienced in conveyancing, I confess I'd be inclined to go with such a solicitor on the basis that if something goes wrong, there's already somebody familiar with the matter who can give me advice on the possible remedies and actions. Frequently, this has been provided within the scope of the fixed fee for conveyancing by my solicitor, so in such a circumstance, it would definitely have cost me more in NSW, as I would have had to pay the conveyancer and the solicitor.

But as I'm in Queensland, it's somewhat academic, as only solicitors can do conveyancing here.
 
I prefer to be viewed in the same light as a GP rather than a dental hygienist, as, .... a conveyancer can fix the problem e.g. handle the conveyance from start to finish.

Ok sometimes (rarely I might add) we may have to refer a client to a surgeon
e.g. a solicitor.

A lot of professions have tiers even solicitors use barristers to attend court and at the bar there are tiers as well e.g. a silk.

I wonder if barristers view solicitors in the same light as solicitors view conveyancers, with disrespect for the professional work we do do.

Fleur

I use a Barrister for SMSF legal matters and I can tell you that they are the 'rolls royce' of the legal society - in mind and action. However, I do like saying "our Barrister said...."

Cheers, Ivan
 
Paul@PFI got it right.

Without going into detail I have handled conveyances for two litigation lawyers from top tier firms, one referred me to the other.

People have the perception that solicitors are experts in all areas of law and this is not the case. Would you go to a cardiologist for your kidney problems...No. Other than a sole suburban solicitor who might dabble in a bit of everything others specialise and practice in one area of law eg. family law, employment law, property law etc.

In NSW you cannot just study for a law degree alone at university you have to take on for instance a combined economics/law or arts/law degrees. Five years is not just spent on studying law. Then they attend six months of college of law where they learn to apply the theory but they choose which area they want to participate in. So if they don't choose conveyancing practice at college of law end up with no idea of how to run a conveyance and it depends which firm picks them up as graduates as to what they end up doing themselves. Top tier firms rotate them in different areas and then they make a choice.

So a lot of solicitors do not know the first step to a conveyance. If you prefer to use a solicitor for a conveyance you should make sure that property law is their area of expertise or at least conveyancing.

On the other hand conveyancers only conveyance.

Fleur
 
I did my law degree as stand alone. I did it at UNE, but it can be done as a stand alone through the LPAB at Sydney uni. I did conveyancing as a separate option during the degree as well as the standard property law subjects Conveyancing as a subject was completely different to property and involved going through the standard contract of sale in great detail and the laws relating to purchase and sale of property. Options, caveats, deposits etc for some reason they still teach old system title which is a waste of time - never ever seen one.

At the college of law - which they call practical legal training - I think conveyancing was compulsory. Everyyone had to do it as everyone had to do litigation. Wills and estates was optional as was family law. Here we did pretend conveyancing, getting contracts with pretend clients and doing pretend settlements. I recall learning a lot but still didnt know how to do a conveyancing matter when finished. You only learn when you do them for real.

I agree that the conveyancers are very good at conveyancing, and usually better than lawyers. But they only the problem is the conveyancers only know and can advise about one small part of buying or selling - the transacction. There are a multitude of other issues such as:
which names(s) to buy - and implications
land tax issues
succession issues
asset protection issues
etc

Most lawyers doing conveyancing may not advise on these without being asked but some do. e.g I had a client wanting to buy 1%/99% TIC. I asked why pointed out the dangers and implications and they changed the ownership structure and will be enjoying the pleasures of sole ownership the next 50+ years.
 
My property lawyers don't do residential conveyancing, although they could do so with their eyes closed. Mine do development work, leasing and commercial conveyances. My conveyancing solicitors don't do anything else because they are doing 10 settlements plus each every week

I also don't think you can make the doctor to conveyancer analogy.
You can get into a conveyancing course without even finishing year 12, there are no entry requirements. You can study it completely on line. Analogy to a nurse would be a stretch as they have to have degrees. If you were going to use that analogy I would go conveyancer to solicitor to barrister would be more like someone who did a diploma of allied health to a doctor to a surgeon.

I think it is too important a transaction and with far too many areas of law related to it that you should be able to do it without being admitted as a solicitor. I don't think a solicitor should be able to do it on their own account unless they have done the 2 years under a supervisor post admission and the practice management course required to get your principal practising certificate.
 
You can get into a conveyancing course without even finishing year 12

You can do the same with Law as long as you are not a school leaver and have done either a TAFE diploma or completed 1 year FT study of any university course which you may have gained access to as a mature age student (>21).

http://future.uws.edu.au/future_students_home/ug/law/non_grad_entry

As to the OP question I have used a Solicitor in NSW for my first house purchase which was from a government entity which was minimal risk and forked out over $2000 as I didn't know better. For the second purchase I again used a Solicitor but this time shopped around via word of mouth and got the same level of service for a private sale through a REA for $1500. For my first sale and most recent purchase I used the same Conveyancer on both occasions which cost me $820 ($170 for the contract and $650 on sale) then 6 months latter only $900 all inclusive to purchase again.

For a basic property conveyance I couldn't tell the difference and in reality the smaller Conveyancer seem to be easier to deal with and easier to contact as it was direct and not through a PA. As long as you understand if it goes wrong and its beyond your Conveyancer's skill set then your off to a Solicitor then I would rather save the $$$$ up front. :D

Even at a Solicitor if it goes wrong although you don't have to go elsewhere I am sure that those extra 6 minute increments will end up costing you more than the original quoted estimate.;)

Billing was one of those issues I had with my first purchase as I was a nervous first time buyer so kept in close contact with my Solicitor and his PA and little did I know each call/fax/email was costing me more and more.:eek:
 
Even at a Solicitor if it goes wrong although you don't have to go elsewhere I am sure that those extra 6 minute increments will end up costing you more than the original quoted estimate.;)

:
true on the grad entry, but you wouldn't last long without some academic skills.

A decent conveyancing solicitor who actually uses solicitors to run the file won't charge you extra if things go wrong unless they go so bad you actually go to litigation.
 
$1,500 each is that including disbursements? As disbursements can total up to $400 -500~.

The solicitor i use for NSW purchases charges ~$800+ disbursements.
 
RPI thanks a lot for your analogy.

Solicitors had a monopoly on conveyancing before conveyancers. They would charge outrageous fees for a simple conveyance. Some would even charge a percentage of a purchase price.

In humour I would say you upset some politician with your fees hence conveyancers. Now your fees have taken a dive. Sorry guys I would probably be upset too.

However conveyancers are here to stay so get used to it. We can only get better and better as conveyancing is all we do.

Kind regards Fleur
 
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