Costs for a development - don't hold back...

Newbie question...

We are going ahead with applying for approval to build four townhouses. It involves reconfiguring two blocks into three and building four townhouses in the newly created middle block.

Can those who have done similar things please help me by throwing any figures at me?

I know I am up for the following costs, but don't really have a handle on what the costs or even the types of things I would need "manage" before and/or during the build.

I know we need to work out how we will hold these townhouses, which names and/or trusts etc to use, and will look at this separately.

I guess I'm looking for a "building townhouses for dummies" type of answer.

Things I can think of that are going to cost money (how much)-

Cost to reconfigure the block
Town planner (I believe this will be about $10K)
Certifier
Designer
BCC headworks (what is included in this?)

Someone mentioned there is something like a $19K cost (is this a BCC cost and is it the same as headworks, or another charge altogether?) for a two bedroom townhouse and it jumps to $27K for a three bedroom (figures are not correct, but you get the idea). I asked if we can call the third bedroom a "study" and pay the lower fee was told this could be tried, but need to be careful with this.

These are things I can think of immediately that I am clueless as to the cost -

. Getting electricity to the new block for the actual build (and can I offer to pay the electricity for one of the existing tenants in order to be able to use their power for the build - especially if waiting for a new hook up will mean delays)

. Electric hook up for the new townhouses once completed

. Getting sewer hooked up for the new townhouses

. Driveway from the street to the new townhouses

. Cost to install new cutover for the new driveway

. Landscaping required by BCC

The actual build will be quoted by builders, but it seems I need to project manage "all the rest" or pay someone. I just don't know exactly what "all the rest" entails.

The builder we like and who has been quite helpful told me that a 4x2 lowest would cost about $250K and to go to a second storey house we would be closer to $300K. This was when we were talking a stand alone house. I'm guessing a two storey townhouse would be $250K (smaller than a stand alone house). Does this sound about right, so two townhouses build cost could be about $500K (depending on level of finish)?

Regarding project managing the total job, the builder suggested we wait until we get approval (fingers crossed), read the requirements thoroughly as they will tell me what needs to be done and when. He said if we have time (we do) we could project manage this, but I've also heard people say hiring a project manager costs money, but can save more than the cost of using one. Thoughts?

I'm wondering if we are better to hire a project manager to lessen any stress. The builder we would like to use said he could take this role on as well as the role of builder (for a fee), but would prefer not to. He does his own developments, so he understands what needs doing.

What are the benefits of hiring a project manager. I have project managed many renovations, but I know what I'm doing with them. I've never built from scratch before.

Sorry for the long thread, but this is now getting close enough that I need to stop procrastinating, do my homework, and get some answers :D
 
I have been wandering around clueless (in my head) about some of this, but my subdivision is only for a single block.

BCC contrubutions are merely donations. I don't think you get any value from those dollars.

I called the water people today (can't remember their name but there's a link from the council website). It is possible to request a costing for the work by completing an online application. That quote then lasts 6 months. For the connection works you can either appoint someone (for drinking water) of appoint that water company to do the connections. Take a look at the website as there is help on there for subdivisions.

I called energex today too. They said it takes 5 days to set up a temp power supply or the same time for a new supply direct to the property. You can call and ask for a quite for the work along with an estimated timeframe.

Sorry for wushy washy answers but this stuff is all very new to me.
 
I appreciate your reply, thank you. Urban Utilities looks after the water infrastructure.

Something that interested me the other day on SS was someone saying they had a much cheaper quote from a plumber for a development connection (?) than the amount quoted by Urban Utilities.

This is the sort of information I need. I would probably have assumed that a new water connection would have to be looked after by UU. I have a great plumber, so I'll be asking him about this.

It is the things that I don't know that are worrying me the most.
 
Hi Wylie,

This is going to be a bit of a long one to answer your own post! Bear in mind I am going on my own limited experience and no doubt others will add and correct!

Reconfigure block...approx 30k
Planner... You quoted 10k - some are more and some are less (check with RPI?)
Certifier approx 9k
Designer (architect?) up to 10k for DA submission. Approx 20k for draftsman to do build drawing for BA

BCC headworks : this just seems to be covering access for new buildings to water and sewer. Approx 5500k water and 5600 sewer. This may only be for 1 dwelling, I am not sure.

Infrastructure: yep 27k per 2 b/r the 3 rd room /study keep it small have built in shelves/cupboards etc in design? The cupboard could house a pull out bed :)

Driveway: concrete slab on my quotes are approx 1400 per m2 but this is for a basement so may not apply.

Cutover on driveway: part of civil works/civil engineer. (RPEQ civil engineer 990 initial meeting $300 per hr thereafter) also needs to include storm water and managment I think. 5-15k all up.

Landscaping: I have a landscape architect who is charging 1k for design for council. Do your actual landscaping separately and avoid the 30% builder margin.

When I queried costs for town houses initially it was coming in at 2k-2400k per mtr 2

Other costs listed in my things to enquire about:
Public notification approx 1200
Electrical engineer 4950
Engineer pier review 2200
Mechanical engineer 2000
Traffic engineer 1650
Construction programme 1100
Hydraulic consult 6000
QFRS inspection (fire) 5500
Q leave

There will also be plan sealing costs for title reg. all infrastructure costs etc must be paid and all OP approvals/works (sewer/water/storm/bulk earthworks/plumbing/landscaping app./inspection fees/QUU headworks etc) must be completed/signed off by this stage.


Some of these may not apply to you as we are now going with units not townhouses

I opted to use a project mgr. His knowledge has already save me as he spotted only 2mtr available for pipes and needs 2.4. Whole world of pain trying to get around it if it had remained. We also have to build over sewer works so 40k plus for that.

Electricity wouldn't give me a quote due to them needing to see if we are going to out a strain on the network :eek: may need 3 phase/separate transformer blah blah... My town planner reckons we shouldn't, let's hope so.

Anyway, that's my info. If you want names of anyone I have used so far let me know.

Cheers
M.
 
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Thanks Mitch1 for that great answer. I just googled "what do I need to know to build townhouses in Brisbane". Hadn't thought that vague a search would bring up what I need to read, but there are some hits there that look promising (including SS). I'm working today but will do some reading tomorrow. Thanks for that.

I would love to know who your project manager is. I have the time to project manage, and have project managed many renovations, but this is different. If I stuff something up or forget something, it is not just "me" who is sitting around waiting for me to fix it like happens with a small reno. Instead of thinking "that is another week of no rent" it could be "that is another month of no rent or worse". I will have a builder sitting around waiting for me to fix things. That could be expensive :eek:.

I also like your story about your project manager finding something not picked up on the plans. This is exactly my concern. I don't know what I don't know.

I'd be happy to pay a project manager money to save a world of pain if I get something wrong. I guess we would still have major input and deal with the project manager, which is fine. I would still get to choose the finishes and level of finish on the building itself, but could avoid the technical stuff?

I'd be keen to learn what you are paying the project manager and I'd also be keen to speak with him/her (if you are happy to PM me the details). The builder we are hoping to use has said he can do it, but would prefer not to. I have no idea what he would charge, but it seems a no-brainer to have him do the lot for an extra cost seeing he is the one who would be dealing with another person in the mix if we do it ourselves or hire someone else.

I'm happy to hear anything else from anyone else. I just want to ensure I have enough funds to do the lift/shift and get that rented, and enough then to do the first two townhouses. If we run out of funds, we cannot borrow more, so I don't want any nasty surprises.
 
Hi Wylie,

I do a lot of googling, though not always helpful when there are different answers to the same question as you have no idea what is right! that is here SS comes in really handy :)
also found out through some recent reading that energex like new sites/subdivisions to have phase 3 power. my P.Mgr has some energex contacts that have gotten around this before. I will pm you his details but check out his website first where he has posted various 'savings' for projects he has taken on midway through. it is quite informative. he has a lot of town house projects and is currently developing his own in the herston/kedron area (he is also a builder)

it is still early days with him so haven't really got much to say beyond he saved us having to get an easement which could have added some serious time to our development. the space we have now is tight but likely doable to run stormwater/sewer around the back and down the side to the road, but in all seriousness, that is already a major save in time and $.

I had 4 project managers quote for this job and myself and the town planner sat down and went through them to do an apples for apples, his came out on top both for price and inclusions (he also keeps track of and pays all costs from one account you lodge to and provides you with a finance expense pack at the end if you want)and he was the only builder/project mgr. a project mgr HAS to have a builder licence or you basically have no insurance but they have it in theory only most of the time and this is where the builder side comes out on top. the designer does not really take into account the various connections/easements etc when designing the build for dev app. these tend to come up later for BA, BUT if you have all these details available, to save time and money from the outset, have your builder look them over and make sure to relay to the designer that xyz space is needed in setbacks etc for pipe works and so on before the initial design. they will charge every time you go back for a change obviously and this really adds up! (3k so far for changes to mine but more than just the pipes in it, units had to be moved etc)
 
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