Council DCP plan recently changed - problem !

Hi guys,

Looking for some advice here if there are any creative solutions.
I've been working on plans with a project builder for quite some time now for a duplex development (side by side)with Sutherland council.

A DA was lodged recently and a few points came up which council want's rectified and plans resubmitted.

We have everything sorted out now, except one remaining problem.
They are demanding 2 car spaces (1 garage + 1 parking space) per unit.
We had previously altered plans considerably because of a pre-application discussion, where council said that the units must be reduced to 125sqm of living space to get away with 1 garage per unit.

After speaking with the development assesment officer, he's basically saying that the rules are the rules and final.
We are only 200 metres away from a train station and major bus stops at Miranda. I thought this may work in our favour of having only 1 car space?

I really don't know how we can fit 4 car spaces onto the block, 55ft / 16.765m wide.
Would definately have to be a tandem garage if we do, and the design would be terrible.

I just checked recent approved development application and one just got approved with only 1 car space per unit for a similar duplex development in Taren Point. How did they get approval?
Can I question this with council and use it to my advantage?

Really don't know what to do.
Should I just submit and hope?

Any bright ideas?
Thanks for any useful advice.

Spider.
 
I just checked recent approved development application and one just got approved with only 1 car space per unit for a similar duplex development in Taren Point. How did they get approval?
Can I question this with council and use it to my advantage?

I would bring it to their attention, and use it to negotiate, unfortunately so much of this is open to an individual planners interpretation, but they still can't have two sets of rules.:)
 
Hi,

I don't have any professional qualification in this area, so these comments are just my un-informed opinion:

- it can only help you to understand on what basis the other DA was approved, so it would be time well spent to understand the other DA in detail to see on what basis it was approved. You may be able to learn from their approval and make further refinements to your plans so that you can obtain approval on the same basis

- I am at the feasibility stage of a development at the moment, and one thing that the architect said to me when I was discussing whether we should consider submitting a non-complying DA to get a better return, is that you should only ever consider this option as a last resort. Reason being, if for any reason anyone objects to your DA, then it is easy to get it rejected because the non-compliance is black & white. Apparently most Councils have the discretion of not approving a DA, even when the DA gets a tick in all the boxes, so technically the DA "complies" with all the formal requirements of the DCP.

- Another option might be to get a second opinion on your design (i.e. perhaps speak with an architect/designer or somebody that the builder knows). A fresh set of eyes might have a different perspective.

If you're going to try the argument that your DA is essentially the "same" as the other DA which was approved, then you need to very sure of your facts ... so you need to have a good understanding of the other DA.

Good luck

VW
 
Hi Spider,

Have you been dealing with the head planner (team leader)? I often get mixed messages from the less experienced planners in council. They will tell me that I must do this or I can't do that. I just smile at them and say "Kevin (head planner) said I didn't have to do that or that I could do this" and watch the surprise on their face. Basically they will try to follow the DCP word for word and give it their own interpretation but you need to be communicating with the leader. In our council, all applications will be checked by him first before palming them off to a junior planner - who will liase with the leader on shady areas like yours. Get the details of the other development that was approved with single garage and question the leader why yours is any different. At least you will get a clearer picture this way from the guy who ultimately makes the call.
 
Hi Spider

I would agree with what Rockstar said - we had two meetings with 2 different planners on duty (both were young ladies who came out with DA guidelines in their hands) and their inexperienced was demonstrated in both meetings.

Of course our lack of experience and knowledge was demonstrated as well.

Can the driveways be classed as an off road parking space?


Sheryn
 
Thanks for the replies guys.
I think I'll go in for a visit to council next week, will gether some other DA's recently approved and see what they say.

The carspaces have to be behind the building line, ie. 7.5m setback.
If there is no way around it, I'll have to completely redesign and submit a new application.
I't almost not worth doing if that's the case.
 
It may be that Council is requiring extra space for visitor parking. These days two-car families are the norm, so parking requirements may have increased.
Marg
 
I'm building a duplex right now in Sutherland Shire Council.
Bought the property about 2 years ago and only just getting ready to go to council now.
Has taken alot longer than I thought to prepare everything.
Going through a project home builder.
Lucky we are renting the current house out.
Anyway, this first one is just a learning experience for me, don't care if I don't make any instant growth out of it, even a slight financial loss.
But still hoping for a good result.
Block is 665sqm.
That was the only thing I enquired about with council before deciding to buy the place, knowing I wanted to knock down and build a duplex.
Also, a massive abt 20m high tree right in the middle of the front yard.
It's a Camphor Laurel, so no permit required to chop that beast down.
Basically, just went into this project blind.
I don't like doing too much research and get into analysis paralysis.
I like to just jump in and get things going.
It's kind of exciting going through the process for the first time, not knowing what will happen.
I have some building experience, worked on 2 houses from start to finish before and know my way around a building site, so not totally inexperienced.
Only inexperienced from the planning and preparation part from start to DA approval, but that has changed now and it will be much easier on the next one.

I have learnt so much already, and these lessons will definately pay off in the future.

Let me know if you have any questions and I can let you know my experiences so far.


Spider

Just came across this Spider. Interesting to look back at ones thought processes and learn from experience. I really hope this works out for you but it is an example that shows that research and due dilligence is paramount when planning a development project.

Cheers, RS ;)
 
Something else to consider, you may find that the other block of land is in an area that is zoned differently to your block, and thus a different DCP may apply to each block (hopefully not in this case).

Again this will become clear by understanding the basis on which the other DA was approved.
 
Just came across this Spider. Interesting to look back at ones thought processes and learn from experience. I really hope this works out for you but it is an example that shows that research and due dilligence is paramount when planning a development project.

Cheers, RS ;)

But how could I have predicted that council would suddenly change the car space ruling from 6 months ago?
If my application was in just a little earlier, it would not have been a problem.
This is the only issue determining a positive outcome.
Maybe I could have been a little more cautious about it.
However, when you live 200m from a busy train station and multiple bus stations, many tenents would rent there to avoid driving, so 2 cars are not a necessity.
There is also street parking available too.
It's just that the 2nd car space has to be behind the building line that the problem.

It sure is a great learning experience and great lessons will be learned.
 
Sorry Spider,
Wasn't being judgmental or anything. :) Are you sure they changed the DCP or merely their interpretation? Do you have the link to the DCP?
 
Found it Spider!

1.b.3 Additional Controls for Dwelling Houses and Dual Occupancy Development
1. There shall be 2 parking spaces per dwelling house. These spaces shall be behind
the building alignment.
2. Dual occupancy development is to have a maximum of one single width garage
(including storage) for each dwelling. Additional parking shall be provided behind
the front building setback line and not impede vehicle manoeuvring in the driveway.
3. Despite Clause 1 and 2 above, no car parking will be required to a second dwelling
under 65m² in gross floor area that comprises a dual occupancy development.

Are you saying that this has been recently changed in the 2006 DCP? If so it is a nasty little trick and one that you could certainly complain loudly about.

We had previously altered plans considerably because of a pre-application discussion, where council said that the units must be reduced to 125sqm of living space to get away with 1 garage per unit.

Was this requirement ever itemised in the DCP?

Regards, RS
 
Without the benefit of a site plan, something that has been done here in Vic, is to use a turning bay (for the specific unit), that doesn't restrict traffic flow, to any other unit, as the second parking space. This would depend on if it was behind the building line in your case, but is what I'm allowed with mine.

This is in Vic though. :)
 
I liked this bit...

"Parking is required for different types of vehicles according to the proposed use. Vehicles include passenger vehicles, motor bikes, light vehicles and heavy vehicles and pushbikes."

Put is a cement pad and label for a motor bike on one side and on the other side squeeze in a spot for a pushbike.


Regards
Sheryn
 
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