Dealing with REA's at their own game - strategies and ethics

Jon,

Given that most transactions in resi real estate are done by Mr and Mrs. Joe Average, and only done maybe once or twice in their lives, it would be fair to say that most of these people would have little or no knowledge about how to conduct a real estate transaction.

Based on this, I find it hard to see how Jon thinks that so many buyers/sellers are the root cause of all the dodgy agents' behavior and games.

Most of these people would be totally unaware of what goes on in the industry, and are simply trying to buy a house for as little as possible, or maybe what they can afford, while the Vendors are generally trying to get the best price possible for their property.

These inexperienced buyers, who make up much of the resi activity, are relying on the r/e agent to act in their capacity - as professional representatives in the industry of real estate transactions. They expect r/e agents to act professionally and to offer a professional service - to both buyers and Vendors. After all; even though you act for the Vendor, you deal with both parties and ultimately you are relying on buyers to pay your commission.

They are not expecting to be lied to and have tricks played on them, and when it occurs, they are shocked, distressed and angry.

Naturally, they will spread the bad news very quickly, hence the reputation of r/e agents is quickly downgraded to just above scum.

I agree that this may be a minority of agents, but unfortunately for your industry Jon, your association has been very consistent in doing little to nothing for a very long time about getting rid of these rotten apples and cleaning up the industry.

The industry and its players have made their own bed and must now lie in it.

You don't like us talking bad about your industry and colleagues, but it's your chosen profession and all that it encompasses.

I think you'll find most here are simply discussing past experiences. This is to be expected; we are more experienced and are more likely to have been the victim of some dodgy practices. Naturally, we are going to try and make the inexperienced aware of the possible scenarios - good or bad.

You might argue; "well, why not discuss the good experiences and not the bad?".

These aren't discussed as often because the good experience is what is expected.
 
Because they rarely exist.


You might argue; "well, why not discuss the good experiences and not the bad?".

I've said it so many times.

Its not a case of a few dodgy agents. Its a dodgy industry with only a few agents being caught out.

Who are then labelled 'cowboys who make the whole industry look bad'

Jon,

Can you name one other industry where the agent makes so much money for so little work while treating customers like crap and being so under trained (or qualified) to work in that industry.

Most RE agents were panel beaters, car salesmen or plumbers last year. :eek:
 
Jon,

Given that most transactions in resi real estate are done by Mr and Mrs. Joe Average, and only done maybe once or twice in their lives, it would be fair to say that most of these people would have little or no knowledge about how to conduct a real estate transaction.

In a world of dodgy financial practices, dodgy salesman, dodgy real estate agents, dodgy builders / tradesman, dodgy politicians, dodgy big businesses you would think people would start wising up. It's a capitalist society and most people are opportunists. I dont convey their actions AT ALL but let's be honest it's rife through-out all industries and a little common sense doesn't go astray...

Let's pose a few question... Have you ever been duped? What was the consequence? Have you ever caught out someone trying?

Call me naieve, but, with a little common sense and an understanding of what an individual can afford to pay for a property and what they think it's worth, what can really go wrong?
 
Keep it simple and don't blab.

When buying.....Don't boast about your property portfolio. The agent doesn't need to be impressed with you.

We have found the opposite Goanna with what we purchase, and found it quite necessary to establish your credentials for both the Seller and the REA to take your offer seriously.

I remember one deal where, as buyers, we were up against a Superannuation firm based in Sydney and an Insurance Co based in Melbourne, all dripping with unconditional cash. The Seller was a Super fund based in Melbourne, selling a CBD office block in Adelaide.

Having Mr & Mrs Dazz as the third buyer, the Seller and REA who we hadn't met wanted re-assurances that if chosen as the successful purchaser, (the deal was via initially EOI, then transmorphed into an Offer to Purchase method) we could actually complete the deal.

But I gather the OP is asking mainly about subterfuge tactics when buying houses, up against normal REA's. I've forgotten all of these that I used to use....it's been a while.
 
I hate REAs getting in between two parties...

I had an REA who I paid to represent my interests phone me to ask what my lowest price would be as he had a potential buyer (developer) who needed a fixed price to offer buyers of his product.

I thought wtf.....told him that I'd gladly consider any offer, and asked nicely if he could he go away and get one. :rolleyes:

Later, I thought how ridiculous this charade was. And realized it would have been a better strategy to tell the REA that if the developer was in such an indecisive position as not to be able to make a fixed offer, that I would prefer to clarify his needs (and mine) directly with him....rather than have the REA interpret the subtle nuances of two parties in flux.
 
You might argue; "well, why not discuss the good experiences and not the bad?".

OK, over my life I have bought or sold 9 properties. While this is not a huge number, it is probably more than the average man in the street. For each one I have dealt with many agents to get what I wanted. Every agent I have done a deal with has been fair and professional in my view. Some agents I have met along the way have left a bit to be desired but I have not done business with them. From my experience they are hard working people trying to do the right thing for there clients and their buyers.

Far worse would be the "Investment property spuikers" who try to sell over priced property to the unsuspecting by disguising deals with free meals and flights etc. They are dangerous!!!
 
Marc,
I fully realise that I am on a hiding to nothing with any attempt to try to explain my beliefs and feelings when it come to the Property Industry. I remember reading that you have had a couple of months experience and quit due to the frustrations that you felt trying to do the job with integrity and honesty and I fully understand your frustrations but advise that my experiences are now covering almost 30 years and I have not quit – many times I have been sorely tempted but each time a good experience has convinced me to continue.

Based on this, I find it hard to see how Jon thinks that so many buyers/sellers are the root cause of all the dodgy agents' behavior and games.

I’m not sure exactly who started this; however I believe that the context is incorrect, I am not laying blame fully on Sellers or Buyers but on all three parties to the transaction. Just as in law, ignorance is no excuse for wrong doing; I believe that Buyer or Seller ignorance is no excuse for laying the blame at the feet of the Agent. So often when Buyers and Sellers are advised of the facts, they still want to play games and tricks. As agents we must learn to expect this and act accordingly.

They are not expecting to be lied to and have tricks played on them, and when it occurs, they are shocked, distressed and angry.

Yes, this is surely the case for all parties concerned. The natural distrust that forms part of the psyche of human nature has a lot to answer for.

Marc, in general I can’t disagree with many of your comments and in my own way, I am trying to do my little bit to improve the current situation. I firmly believe that if people are given knowledge then they are more able to make good decisions with confidence.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
 
In a world of dodgy financial practices, dodgy salesman, dodgy real estate agents, dodgy builders / tradesman, dodgy politicians, dodgy big businesses you would think people would start wising up. It's a capitalist society and most people are opportunists. I dont convey their actions AT ALL but let's be honest it's rife through-out all industries and a little common sense doesn't go astray...

Let's pose a few question... Have you ever been duped? What was the consequence? Have you ever caught out someone trying?

Call me naieve, but, with a little common sense and an understanding of what an individual can afford to pay for a property and what they think it's worth, what can really go wrong?

Well stated Stumunro. I'm sure that most people act with this belief, it is only the few that spoil it for the many.
 
What I find quite amusing is that there are investors on this thread suggesting ways of using "tactics" on agents and who are shocked that any agent may use a "tactic" on them :rolleyes:
 
Thanks Jon.
I can see from the buyers perspective the form allows them to put their highest bid in and potentially save some nonsense from the agent.

Do you know of any act that prevents the agent from lying and saying - "there has been another bid of X, and yours should be higher than this". Maybe the form could be disclosed to the eventual buyer so he/she knows they weren't duped into putting in a bid higher than they needed to.

By the way, I think your posts are excellent Jon! You give some balance to the agent bashing.. and give a good point of view on other topics. Cheers!
 
Every agent I have done a deal with has been fair and professional in my view. Some agents I have met along the way have left a bit to be desired but I have not done business with them. From my experience they are hard working people trying to do the right thing for there clients and their buyers.

My experience is similar to yours, peastman. Most of agents are hardworking and ethical. I'm in the process of selling one of my properties through an agent who has put in the long hours for me. Her commission is going to be about $10,000 from which she'll keep probably about $7500. I doubt very much whether I would have got the extra $5000 which she was able to squeeze out of the deal so I'm not complaining about the 10K.
 
Thanks Jon.
I can see from the buyers perspective the form allows them to put their highest bid in and potentially save some nonsense from the agent.

Do you know of any act that prevents the agent from lying and saying - "there has been another bid of X, and yours should be higher than this". Maybe the form could be disclosed to the eventual buyer so he/she knows they weren't duped into putting in a bid higher than they needed to.

By the way, I think your posts are excellent Jon! You give some balance to the agent bashing.. and give a good point of view on other topics. Cheers!

Yes as part of the certificate of registration all salespeople working at a REA understands the rules and regulations that the industry practices under. It is definitely AGAINST the law to act dishonestly.

http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fullhtml/inforce/subordleg+490+2003+FIRST+0+N#sch.1

Schedule 1 Item 3 (2)

Put simply if an agent is caught doing this they will liable to prosecution under the property,business, stock agents act 2002 and will probably be issued a fine or in severe cases or repeat offenders stripped of their certificates / licensing.
 
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What I find quite amusing is that there are investors on this thread suggesting ways of using "tactics" on agents and who are shocked that any agent may use a "tactic" on them :rolleyes:

As the original poster - I'm not shocked at all that an agent may use a "tactic" - in fact I'd expect this to occur more often than not.

Agents are sales people. Their job is to make sales, that is how they are incentivised. I dont blame them, but do understand why they act how they do!
 
Agents are sales people. Their job is to make sales, that is how they are incentivised. I dont blame them, but do understand why they act how they do!


Personally, I think the sooner we get a free intuitive website that provides sales histories, comparative market analyses, and lists properties for sale, the more efficient the exchange of property will be. Vendors and buyers won't have unrealistic expectations.
 
Personally, I think the sooner we get a free intuitive website that provides sales histories, comparative market analyses, and lists properties for sale, the more efficient the exchange of property will be. Vendors and buyers won't have unrealistic expectations.

Winston, this information is already available and I provide my Sellers with a comprehensive CMA (Comparative Market Analysis) which runs to around 30 pages. The real problem is that all houses are not the same and a Seller believes that theirs is the best and the Buyers believe that there are things wrong with everything. Such is the nature of the beast.
 
Do you know of any act that prevents the agent from lying and saying - "there has been another bid of X, and yours should be higher than this".

Stumunro has answered this correctly in my opinion. Any agent using this approach without fact is looking for a fall.

By the way, I think your posts are excellent Jon! You give some balance to the agent bashing.. and give a good point of view on other topics. Cheers!

Thank you for those comments, I try to give a balanced perspective because we all understand that there are three sides to all stories. Your side - My side and the truth.
 
I hate REAs getting in between two parties...

I would prefer to clarify his needs (and mine) directly with him....rather than have the REA interpret the subtle nuances of two parties in flux.


That's the best thing I've read for quite a while, very eloquently enunciated WW.

That massive crack, where the REA tries to interpret the needs of both parties involved in the transaction is where everything falls down. Assuming of course, you have two competent parties transacting. I realise this isn't always the case.
 
You guys just dont know you've had your pants pulled down. That's just how the RE industry operates.

Try to get agent to talk to someone outside of the industry about buying listings, conditioning, advertising rebates, etc etc......let us know how you go.

The only reason dummy bidding has been made such a big deal of over the years is because its one tactic agents find very hard to hide, its pretty obvious. Unlike most of the tactics they use on unsuspecting buyers & sellers.

OK, over my life I have bought or sold 9 properties. While this is not a huge number, it is probably more than the average man in the street. For each one I have dealt with many agents to get what I wanted. Every agent I have done a deal with has been fair and professional in my view. Some agents I have met along the way have left a bit to be desired but I have not done business with them. From my experience they are hard working people trying to do the right thing for there clients and their buyers.

Far worse would be the "Investment property spuikers" who try to sell over priced property to the unsuspecting by disguising deals with free meals and flights etc. They are dangerous!!!
 
You guys just dont know you've had your pants pulled down. That's just how the RE industry operates.

Try to get agent to talk to someone outside of the industry about buying listings, conditioning, advertising rebates, etc etc......let us know how you go.
So evand how many REA's do you have as friends or family members that you have spoken with to gather this valueable information on the industry in general?

Regards
Graeme
 
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