Deceitful REA - First home Experience Ruined.
- Thread starter xQuIz8
- Start date
From the tenants point of view, they'll probably be reluctant to leave since they'll have to find another property in what might be a tight rental market. I appreciate you're going through pain, but if I were the tenant my response to your letter would be 'That's a nice sob story, I don't have to move until my lease expires and you have to give me notice first'.
Have you considered offering your tenants an incentive to leave? It's going to potentially cost you thousands to hold the property, why not offer some of that to the tenant if the leave quickly. I've done this in the past and it's been very successful. They made a huge deal about making sure the property was spotless prior to moving out - right before I started tearing the place to pieces in a renovation.
Often it's just a matter of determining what will motivate them. It can be a small price to pay in many cases.
Have you considered offering your tenants an incentive to leave? It's going to potentially cost you thousands to hold the property, why not offer some of that to the tenant if the leave quickly. I've done this in the past and it's been very successful. They made a huge deal about making sure the property was spotless prior to moving out - right before I started tearing the place to pieces in a renovation.
Often it's just a matter of determining what will motivate them. It can be a small price to pay in many cases.
Not sure if I have missed something here....
Surely you are only out of pocket $30 per week?
You need to pay your mortgage, rates etc (on the new property) whether you live in the property or not..... it does NOT change.
So given the tax benefits, you might even be in front financially...
The Y-man
Hi all,
Umm, sorry to be a party pooper, but what were you thinking???
Let's see, if a used car salesman tells you this fantastic used car has really only done 100,000 km, but there is 180,000 km on the odometer, will you trust the salesman??
If a contract is subject to "satisfactory inspection by my partner," means that your partner was not satisfied while there were tenants.....
If a contract is subject to "valuation not coming below purchase price etc" then when it did and you realised you payed too much.....
This whole thread smacks of "I really did lots of stupid things and I am looking to blame someone else".
The term caveat emptor means buyer beware and always should be adhered to. There is only one person to blame for the whole mess can be easily found by looking in the mirror.
It is time to move on from this, you have learned your lesson and as Y-man has stated, not at a very high cost. As you progress through life there will probably be many more important purchases. You now know what to do and what not to do.
bye
PS sorry about being so harsh.
Umm, sorry to be a party pooper, but what were you thinking???
Let's see, if a used car salesman tells you this fantastic used car has really only done 100,000 km, but there is 180,000 km on the odometer, will you trust the salesman??
If a contract is subject to "satisfactory inspection by my partner," means that your partner was not satisfied while there were tenants.....
If a contract is subject to "valuation not coming below purchase price etc" then when it did and you realised you payed too much.....
This whole thread smacks of "I really did lots of stupid things and I am looking to blame someone else".
The term caveat emptor means buyer beware and always should be adhered to. There is only one person to blame for the whole mess can be easily found by looking in the mirror.
It is time to move on from this, you have learned your lesson and as Y-man has stated, not at a very high cost. As you progress through life there will probably be many more important purchases. You now know what to do and what not to do.
bye
PS sorry about being so harsh.
Bill
Are you saying no blame should be apportioned to the agent whatsoever? You cant be serious. They were first home buyers.
Imagine if everyone in society had that mindset. It would be 'watch your back, dont trust anyone and rip everyone off with no responsibility because they should be looking out for themselves'
Your welcome to that dystopian society.
Are you saying no blame should be apportioned to the agent whatsoever? You cant be serious. They were first home buyers.
Imagine if everyone in society had that mindset. It would be 'watch your back, dont trust anyone and rip everyone off with no responsibility because they should be looking out for themselves'
Your welcome to that dystopian society.
Hi evand,
I'm saying it is time to move on. don't dwell or you become bitter and twisted.
Despite many years efforts, with laws, qualifications etc there is always an element of lowlife just waiting to stitch you up. It might only be .1% in any field, but they exist.
The mistakes were made not just because of the REA, but the follow up inaction where there was ample opportunity to walk. My suspicion is that they fell in love with the house and overlooked everything else.
Was paying too much the agents fault??? (from valuation)
Was partner approval agents fault???
A contract is a legal document. If you accept something verbal THAT IS DIFFERENT to what the contract clearly states, then you are foolish.
This is no different to the people who blame the greedy banks for fixed interest rates that they signed into 6 months ago.
bye
I'm saying it is time to move on. don't dwell or you become bitter and twisted.
Despite many years efforts, with laws, qualifications etc there is always an element of lowlife just waiting to stitch you up. It might only be .1% in any field, but they exist.
The mistakes were made not just because of the REA, but the follow up inaction where there was ample opportunity to walk. My suspicion is that they fell in love with the house and overlooked everything else.
Was paying too much the agents fault??? (from valuation)
Was partner approval agents fault???
A contract is a legal document. If you accept something verbal THAT IS DIFFERENT to what the contract clearly states, then you are foolish.
This is no different to the people who blame the greedy banks for fixed interest rates that they signed into 6 months ago.
bye
I think both Bill L and evand are right.
Bill L is right that they signed a contract with information that contradicted verbal advice, on an issue which was an important factor to them - not smart.
It does, however, sound like the agent was deliberately deceptive. If the agent had just said "I think the tenants will be happy to leave", it'd all be on the purchasers and I'd have little sympathy. But it sounds like the purchasers repeatedly asked about the tenants, and that the agent repeatedly and adamantly reassured them that the tenants would be gone. That's downright lying.
Bill L is right that they signed a contract with information that contradicted verbal advice, on an issue which was an important factor to them - not smart.
It does, however, sound like the agent was deliberately deceptive. If the agent had just said "I think the tenants will be happy to leave", it'd all be on the purchasers and I'd have little sympathy. But it sounds like the purchasers repeatedly asked about the tenants, and that the agent repeatedly and adamantly reassured them that the tenants would be gone. That's downright lying.
Evand - I'm still waiting for my lawyer to get back to me. I do intend to seek legal action in terms of financial compensation. One thing about "Des" though.. of all the times I've emailed and texted him, (stating that all the lies he has told me had caused many predicaments to my partner and I and that he should at least step into the mix to assist), he has never once denied all what he has done. I think deep down, he knows what he did was wrong. He genuinely knew that it would be difficult getting the tenants out. However, he thought that we would be able to get them out forcefully before the settlement, regardless.
and Thanks for standing up for me.. IMO, REAs should be honest, upfront and ethical. Thats all we're asking for. But being the position that I am in now, I only have myself to blame at this point.
BILL - Yes indeed I was naive in trusting the agent. However, even prior to us sitting down to talk about the contract, he has mentioned many times to me about the tenants being willing to move out, that they have already found another place to stay and are already making arrangements to move out. So when it was time to put in the clauses, he told me not to put in vacant possession due to the other many clauses that I already have in there. I trusted him. Simple as that and now I know I shouldnt have. He lied to both sides to get the deal through.
and Bill. This post is NOT for people to symphatize me. I just dont want first timers like myself to fall into the same position as me. You can speak truthfully and honestly, but theres no need to be harsh and say that I am foolish. Quote : This whole thread smacks of "I really did lots of stupid things and I am looking to blame someone else". - not very nice
People makes mistake. If its an unforced error, then I'm foolish but in this case, I assure you its not. I was just too trusting and too careless for my own good.
FFC- I've talked to consulted Consumer Affairs. They are willing to help me take this to tribunal. I'm still in consideration of that. Now, I'm just waiting for advice from my lawyer. Thank you for the advice..
PT Bear - Yes, I have tried to offer them compensation - $2000 in fact. But to no avail. They're adamant not to move out and its totally understandable. Thanks for the note. However, they did understand my position and strongly suggested that I take legal action. They told me incidents in which "Des" has acted unprofessionally and was deceitful. Ie. Lying about us being investors and that we would be happy for them to continue living beyond their lease when he clearly knew that we were first home buyers, letting people in the property for inspection without approval from them" I have all this in black and white.
Y-Man - Tenants paying us -$370pw, Rent I'm paying now - $400 pw
Taking into account income after tax and management fees. Monthly shortfall $540. This excludes mortgage, body corporate etc which are irrelevant.
Ozperp - Thanks for your comments as well. Appreciate it alot..
and Thanks for standing up for me.. IMO, REAs should be honest, upfront and ethical. Thats all we're asking for. But being the position that I am in now, I only have myself to blame at this point.
BILL - Yes indeed I was naive in trusting the agent. However, even prior to us sitting down to talk about the contract, he has mentioned many times to me about the tenants being willing to move out, that they have already found another place to stay and are already making arrangements to move out. So when it was time to put in the clauses, he told me not to put in vacant possession due to the other many clauses that I already have in there. I trusted him. Simple as that and now I know I shouldnt have. He lied to both sides to get the deal through.
and Bill. This post is NOT for people to symphatize me. I just dont want first timers like myself to fall into the same position as me. You can speak truthfully and honestly, but theres no need to be harsh and say that I am foolish. Quote : This whole thread smacks of "I really did lots of stupid things and I am looking to blame someone else". - not very nice
People makes mistake. If its an unforced error, then I'm foolish but in this case, I assure you its not. I was just too trusting and too careless for my own good.
FFC- I've talked to consulted Consumer Affairs. They are willing to help me take this to tribunal. I'm still in consideration of that. Now, I'm just waiting for advice from my lawyer. Thank you for the advice..
PT Bear - Yes, I have tried to offer them compensation - $2000 in fact. But to no avail. They're adamant not to move out and its totally understandable. Thanks for the note. However, they did understand my position and strongly suggested that I take legal action. They told me incidents in which "Des" has acted unprofessionally and was deceitful. Ie. Lying about us being investors and that we would be happy for them to continue living beyond their lease when he clearly knew that we were first home buyers, letting people in the property for inspection without approval from them" I have all this in black and white.
Y-Man - Tenants paying us -$370pw, Rent I'm paying now - $400 pw
Taking into account income after tax and management fees. Monthly shortfall $540. This excludes mortgage, body corporate etc which are irrelevant.
Ozperp - Thanks for your comments as well. Appreciate it alot..
Hi Xquiz8,
I agree with you about what all REA should be. The simple fact is that they all are not. There are always stories in the media about unscrupulous REAs.
A person I know that is a CEO of a large enterprise employing over 1000, once stated the following...
With good people a handshake is all you need, with bad people all the legal work in the world doesn't help much. I just try to tell the difference between the 2.
I hope you enjoy your new house when you eventually get it, and move on to bigger and better things. Forget the agent, karma will get him. If you try and chase him the most likely outcome is that you will end up in knots about the roadblocks put in your way. Word of mouth down the street is as good a revenge as any.
bye
I agree with you about what all REA should be. The simple fact is that they all are not. There are always stories in the media about unscrupulous REAs.
A person I know that is a CEO of a large enterprise employing over 1000, once stated the following...
With good people a handshake is all you need, with bad people all the legal work in the world doesn't help much. I just try to tell the difference between the 2.
I hope you enjoy your new house when you eventually get it, and move on to bigger and better things. Forget the agent, karma will get him. If you try and chase him the most likely outcome is that you will end up in knots about the roadblocks put in your way. Word of mouth down the street is as good a revenge as any.
bye
Great quote, thanks for sharing it.
XQ,I would have a deep think about going down the legal road,and in a perfect world you would be able to truly predict what is going to happen but we don't live in a perfect world ,the Real Estate selling game is full of people that don't care less about you or what you want and some from my small experience have a very slim understanding of the "Truth" the
Boss most work for remain in business because they sell properties and a R-E is not the agent of the purchaser,all they do is pass on the offer to the vendor,all i can can say is good luck with the litigation, i have been down that road a few times in my life,and for all the stress,worry,money, waste of time and time , isthe important factor in life and how we use it..
IMHO,if it was me i would just cop IT on the chin, you become hard that way,and move on and just be smart next time, i don't trust anyone in Business word of mouth these days is not worth a empty beer bottle in the gutter, unless it's in black and white and the contract is signed, and i agree with Bill just let "Karma" DO IT'S JOB,AS IT WILL IN TIME..good luck willair..
I sort of agree with the others.
Plus you will be able to claim all rates, interest etc on the property while the tenants are in the property.
You seem to get on well with the tenants and you might even want to self manage for the rest of the tenancy if you wish.
The thing is showing that you have suffered a deep financial loss which in this case you might not have suffered that much, it might not be worth the stress and legal fees to go to court.
Plus you will be able to claim all rates, interest etc on the property while the tenants are in the property.
You seem to get on well with the tenants and you might even want to self manage for the rest of the tenancy if you wish.
The thing is showing that you have suffered a deep financial loss which in this case you might not have suffered that much, it might not be worth the stress and legal fees to go to court.
Don't forget that the mortgage interest, body corp, rates, and other expenses related to that property is now tax deductible until the tenant moves out. How is that irrelevant? Once you take into account the tax deductions from them there is a very good chance that you will be better off financially unless your mortgage is very small.
I agree that you should be able to trust the word of people, but unfortunately you can't.
If you do decide to pursue legal action, just remember one thing. You're not even guaranteed of winning. Pursuing this guy will not get you 'revenge' or 'justice' if you lose.
At the end of the day, he will deny what he said and hold up a signed contract that shows you did not ask for vacant posession.
If you do decide to pursue legal action, just remember one thing. You're not even guaranteed of winning. Pursuing this guy will not get you 'revenge' or 'justice' if you lose.
At the end of the day, he will deny what he said and hold up a signed contract that shows you did not ask for vacant posession.
No one is talking about expensive & protracted legal action going to the high court.
You could get some advice then a letter to the agency saying if you are not compensated, legal action will follow.
Most people & businesses will give in at this point. If they dont, go to the next step. But as i said, you dont have to take it the high court. You should get a result before it gets there.
The thing is, i don't beleive in karma.That's a load of doodoo and lets people get away with some bad stuff. Who cares whay ahppens to him down the track, you want remedy now.
If people ignore this stuff it allows it to continue to happen. And especially when it concerns RE agents.
You could get some advice then a letter to the agency saying if you are not compensated, legal action will follow.
Most people & businesses will give in at this point. If they dont, go to the next step. But as i said, you dont have to take it the high court. You should get a result before it gets there.
The thing is, i don't beleive in karma.That's a load of doodoo and lets people get away with some bad stuff. Who cares whay ahppens to him down the track, you want remedy now.
If people ignore this stuff it allows it to continue to happen. And especially when it concerns RE agents.
Totally not related to this issue at all, but I think I do believe in karma. A few weeks ago, a young man was murdered in Adelaide; it seems the young man was known to police and was held on rape charges, although I think in the end the charges were dropped before he was murdered. The Police were about to charge the person who they considered murdered this man, when, lo and behold, he too died, after he was fleeing from a violent home invasion in which he was the offender. Cause of death unknown at this stage.
In terms of going to Court, there is a supreme Court action going on in Adelaide at the moment on the basis of false information allegedly provided to buyers (in a very large development) by the real estate agent at the time of signing. I was one of the buyers but am not involved in the Court case. I do know that the information provided by the Real Estate Agent was wrong. He also told some buyers that they would not have to pay stamp duty as they were buying 'off the plan' prior to construction. Once again wrong, and in this case, buyers were contacted a day before settlement that they needed to cough up another $16,000.
I dont think I will be joining the group claim, too much angst. But they are quietly confident they will win, and one of the complainants is a very well known 'damages' lawyer in Adelaide. Because what they were told on signing by the real estate agent was not (allegedly) true, even though nothing was in writing.
In terms of going to Court, there is a supreme Court action going on in Adelaide at the moment on the basis of false information allegedly provided to buyers (in a very large development) by the real estate agent at the time of signing. I was one of the buyers but am not involved in the Court case. I do know that the information provided by the Real Estate Agent was wrong. He also told some buyers that they would not have to pay stamp duty as they were buying 'off the plan' prior to construction. Once again wrong, and in this case, buyers were contacted a day before settlement that they needed to cough up another $16,000.
I dont think I will be joining the group claim, too much angst. But they are quietly confident they will win, and one of the complainants is a very well known 'damages' lawyer in Adelaide. Because what they were told on signing by the real estate agent was not (allegedly) true, even though nothing was in writing.
Evand, you don't get it.
At the end of the day he has a signed contract that clearly says tenants until May 09.
If he is a lying, cheating so and so, then he will simply defend himself by claiming everything was above board. He will ignore any legal letter because he knows it has no chance of standing up in court.
Following such actions just leads to more expense and heartache for Xquiz8 as they find themselves fighting a losing battle while knowing in their hearts they are right.
If the out of pocket expenses are only $30 per week between now and May, that is a grand total of $600?, just getting a legal letter written up seeking compensation would cost a large chunk of that with a very slim chance of getting anything.
There are times in life when you just have to let go, this is one of them, move on, what's next.
bye
At the end of the day he has a signed contract that clearly says tenants until May 09.
If he is a lying, cheating so and so, then he will simply defend himself by claiming everything was above board. He will ignore any legal letter because he knows it has no chance of standing up in court.
Following such actions just leads to more expense and heartache for Xquiz8 as they find themselves fighting a losing battle while knowing in their hearts they are right.
If the out of pocket expenses are only $30 per week between now and May, that is a grand total of $600?, just getting a legal letter written up seeking compensation would cost a large chunk of that with a very slim chance of getting anything.
There are times in life when you just have to let go, this is one of them, move on, what's next.
bye
I dont believe in letting sh%*bag agents get away with this stuff. I don't like people just ignoring it for reasons above.
What i'm saying is, do something, just don't do nothing and think he'll bget hit by a truck down the road sometime.
Bugger karma. If this stuff happens to me, i'm his karma.
And by the way, yes Bill, i do get it. Contracts are worth nothing if they were agreed on false pretenses, lies, duress etc. Don't let that stop you. Plenty people have been found wrong with a written contract, it holds very little water because circumstances are always taken into account.
Thinking otherwise is naive at best. Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
What i'm saying is, do something, just don't do nothing and think he'll bget hit by a truck down the road sometime.
Bugger karma. If this stuff happens to me, i'm his karma.
And by the way, yes Bill, i do get it. Contracts are worth nothing if they were agreed on false pretenses, lies, duress etc. Don't let that stop you. Plenty people have been found wrong with a written contract, it holds very little water because circumstances are always taken into account.
Thinking otherwise is naive at best. Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
