Depreciation Schedule is it worth it ?

One of the difficulties I regularly encounter with prop investors is persuading them of the merits of a QS report. Thought I would share a example of a somersoftie who raised that same point with me. It indicates the value of a good depreciation report and combining that with good tax advice.

This person built two homes on a subdiv lot of land. Both identical. She believed her builder estimates etc were sufficient and prepared two years of tax returns on that basis. Like many investors she sought to avoid unnecesssary cost as cashflow is good but tight. Spending $1,000 on reports seemed so expensive. Her total depn deductions were around $8,000 for each of 2012 and 2013 tax. I suspected that was (very) low.

I encouraged her to seek BMT's views. She reluctantly agreed to my advice & encouragment and invested in late June in the reports.

Deduction value for each property for each year closer to $10K each....
Deductions of $20k vs $8k...I proposed we amend those two years returns. Expected new refund that will be paid in the next month ??? $11k...And her 2014 refund will also be around $4k higher....So in a two month period her $1,000 investment has returned $15K in real cash - Direct to her bank account. Cost to do this : $1,000 for BMT and $400 for for me to amend 2 years....almost a 10:1 return.

I would encourage all investors who havent yet obtained a real current QS report to do so and to consider amending their past two years tax returns. Time is ticking...Your two year window is closing....But that view comes with a catch:

*** If you amend your return the wrong way you will be audited !!! The ATO consider amended returns by property investors with a refund increase of $5k as a automatic review trigger. They can start to explore all your deduction claims...It is slow and can turn up a small issue which escalates. If its done by an experienced tax adviser I find you can bypass that problem by supplying all the correct information with the amendment request.
 
I'm pretty sure it's worth it but it's a minefield to choose an appropriate QS to do the job :confused:

Just curious, why did you advise her to go with BMT? I'm trying to pick and choose between BMT and another place at the moment :rolleyes:
 
I dont care who they use and tell them that. I make nothing from it. The difference between a cheap report can be in little things like it showing no detail after 8 years !! Or no tax practitioner board registration !! I would recommend sticking to the big names....BMT, Depreciator etc Washington can be expensive but worth checking as they (like BMT) do a lot of hi-rise and might have the data and finishing it will be a bit cheaper.

I have found BMT very helpful and often involved on larger sites at the builder estimates level. This means the site data is already available and onsite costs can be minimised. They have very broad nationwide support and I have never been told its too hard, too far away etc. Some small ones can be cheap but fall over at that point. One of the guys I work with was quoted a few hundred to complete his schedule when they already had the data from their work for the builder. They just needed interior fitout details and it took a few days.

Other clients have had their schedule reworked after major improvts and at little cost. One client lost a IP to fire and they didnt hesitate to rework it to the date of the fire to calculate the final loss. Free.
 
Hi Paul,
Can you explain the below information in regards to paying for a depreciation report if you just built an IP?

--- From BANTACs accountants - http://www.apin.com.au/downloads/bantac books/Real_Estate_Agent_Booklet.pdf)

There has been considerable publicity lately about claiming building depreciation on rental properties by having a quantity surveyor calculate the original building costs and value of plant and equipment. A good reference regarding the building costs is ATO ruling TR 97/25 available from the ATO web site. There are a couple of little catches to relying on a quantity surveyor's report.
The first one being that you can only rely on a quantity surveyors report if you have exhausted all other means of finding out the original building costs.
The legislation even compels the seller of a property to provide you with this information - Subsection 262A(4AJA) of the 1936 Act.
The second catch is if the original owner was a spec or owner building the calculation cannot include their labour or profit.
 
I use BMT depreciation schedules for all my properties
They cost $655 (from memory) which is a small discount off their normal price.
Tax deductible ($655) and the first year depreciation is well worthwhile and you can use it for a number of years.
 
Just a quick a question its bit off track how the depreciation paid? I used to bmt calculator the amount was 7k in depreciation. Is the 7k all paid bck to me or only a portion of that? Based on my tax bracket?
 
The 7K may be 100% deductible as an extra deduction. A refund at your marginal tax rate would occur. ie 38% x $7k = $2660. Of course thats not just a single year. It continues.
 
Hi Paul,
Can you explain the below information in regards to paying for a depreciation report if you just built an IP?

--- From BANTACs accountants - http://<<SNIP>>.pdf)



There has been considerable publicity lately about claiming building depreciation on rental properties by having a quantity surveyor calculate the original building costs and value of plant and equipment. A good reference regarding the building costs is ATO ruling TR 97/25 available from the ATO web site. There are a couple of little catches to relying on a quantity surveyor's report.
The first one being that you can only rely on a quantity surveyors report if you have exhausted all other means of finding out the original building costs.
The legislation even compels the seller of a property to provide you with this information - Subsection 262A(4AJA) of the 1936 Act.
The second catch is if the original owner was a spec or owner building the calculation cannot include their labour or profit.

I prefer not to comment on Julia's leaflet. Its undated which is always a concern with any tax article. It is Version 1 or Version 20. 2015 year or 2005 ? My concern started with the first line - It makes an assumption your home is CGT exempt....Thats dangerous. My studies of tax law taught me that a capital gain is taxable unless exempt. The building blocks of CGT dont start with "your home is exempt". Its starts with calculating if a gain or loss occurs. A person who has claimed Div 40/43 will ALWAYS need to use the CGT building blocks and never start with the assumption of exemption.

The Tax Act doesnt "compel" a vendor to do squat. That is where TR97/25 addresses the issue of what to do if it isnt provided....The ATO dont discuss forcing taxpayers to comply. It refers (Para 24) to obtaining a QS report. The issue with a vendor not providing a copy of the schedule etc according to 4AJA is that it allows the acquirer to obtain a new schedule. Determining cost is often difficult even for a owner. The QS I use understand what "cost" is used and have never suggested cost includes a labour element.

There are many other options other than a QS....IMO builders estimates etc dont cut it. They are often no better than a list of some fittings etc. Even good builders use the big QS firms as they appreciate the expertise in their product delivery.

I would suggest that could be a difference between a decent report and a cheapie. The large firms often have cost data going back to the original build and if they do its far more reliable that a estimation. My collegaue who bought a unit found this. I called BMT and they had the actual builders construct details. They just had to update for the interior apartmnet fitout.
 
Quick questions guys (instead of opening a new thread)

I recently bought a property last financial year (May 2015).

If i do a Depreciation schedule now (after 30/06/14), can i use it to claim depreciation for the Last financial year.

(i have not lodged my tax returns as yet).


Regards,

K
 
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I presume you bought it in May 2014 (not 2015). Yes you can use the Depreciation Schedule in the 2013/2014 FY tax return. You can also amend tax returns already completed for up to 2 years (noted in case you had already submitted your tax return for that FY).
 
One further enquiry :)

If for one of my IP's with which I have not done a depreciation schedule as yet.
But I intend to renovate the kitchen in the near future.

Is it more beneficial to do a depreciation after the kitchen is renovated?

If I request a depreciation schedule now do I have to another one, after the kitchen has been renovated, to take advantage of the depreciation amount?

Regards
K
 
I'd suggest to do it now. You'd have all the costs for the kitchen refurb works to give to your accountant and they'd know what to do with it. They'd also be able to scrap any depreciable items that were disposed as well by using the depreciation schedule.
 
If you build a block of 4 houses or units that are identical or near enough, can you get one depreciation report done and send 4 copies to your accountant?

If 4 seperate schedules need to be done then do they offer very large discounts for the other 3 schedules since 99.5% of the costs of the 4 houses are identical and i would assume it would only take the company a few mins to adjust the 1 or 2 items that are different.
 
Tano

What I generally suggest to clients is that if the client deems the units to be identical or similar enough, then I do one report and they use it for the other units.

That way it is up to the client and their accountant to determine the similarity of the units.

If however the client isn't sure and/or they want me to confirm the differences, then I do one for each unit, but yes at a discounted rate.

Regards
 
In my experience Depreciation Schedules are great for IPs as long as you never ever sell the property. With each depreciation claim you make every year you are increasing your tax bill in the event you ever sell your IP. The claimed amounts get added to your CG event as you have already benefited from it once. So keep that in mind if you work on a short / medium holding period as a strategy.
I use BMT for my reports an so far am very happy
 
In my experience Depreciation Schedules are great for IPs as long as you never ever sell the property. With each depreciation claim you make every year you are increasing your tax bill in the event you ever sell your IP. The claimed amounts get added to your CG event as you have already benefited from it once. So keep that in mind if you work on a short / medium holding period as a strategy.
I use BMT for my reports an so far am very happy

This is the case, I beleive, even if the depreciation is not claimed
 
So, say you have an IP purchased for $200k.
Couple years in you do extensions of which you get a depreciation schedule showing $100k of capital works.

Then, over a few years you have claimed say $20k.

Does the cost base look like this:
Purchase price $200k +
Capital works $100k = $300k minus $20k claimed = $280k ?
 
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