Depreciator V Deppro

[depreciator]

Hi Patosan,
Your query about the price difference was entirely appropriate. In terms of what seperates a good Depreciation Schedule from a crook one, I guess there are 2 main things to consider:

1. Tax work is a small part of the average QS job scope. Many QSs won't touch tax work - too many shifting rules. Some do it at tax time because they're getting phone calls, but because they're doing it sporadically, they're not always up to date with any ATO changes. You always want to use a QS who does alot of tax work - us, BMT, Washington Brown.

2. Some QSs produce reports that are hard to decipher. I had one sent to me by an accountant last week because he couldn't work it out. It looked like a cheapie. We dug out the info, put it into our format and sent it back to the accountant (free of charge of course). If an accountant has to spend time mucking around with a report, the client is going to be charged for that time.

They're the 2 general considerations.

We like to think there are service specifics that set us apart from the other reputable national providers:

1. Post delivery service is important. When people receive their report, they often have questions. This is where many QSs fall down. Nicola here deals with most of these queries, and she does it very efficiently and with good humour.

2. We have on on-line facility for people to update their Depreciator reports when they do future renos etc.

3. We send a pdf of the completed report to a client's accountant (if they want us to) so that we can answer any questions the accountant may have BEFORE they meet with our client.

4. We update our clients via e-mail when there are depreciation changes that we feel may be of interest to them as investors.

But now I'm going on and on and on about us ...

Scott

 

[Jacque]

I've used both Deppro and BMT and been more than happy with the results. However, I will be giving Scott a turn next time- got to try them all
And, he has come highly referred to me by a couple of trustworthy forumites!

 

[Kazda]

I just want to convey to all the fantastic service I received from the staff at Depreciator and from Scott himself.
I recently engaged Depreciator to do a QS report on our Rockhampton property. My initial and ongoing contact has been with Kylie and she is always friendly, knowledgeable & obliging.

Anyway, I had a pricing question and Kylie said she would arrange for Scott to ring me. What I didn't know at the time of my call, was that Scott was actually on holidays, but 1 hour later I received a call from Scott himself and he happily answered my question. I could hear the sound of waves in the background so I guess he must have been at the beach.

Now that's what I call service AAA +++.

I did get other quotes and copies of sample QS reports from other companies before I engaged Scott/Depreciator and the difference in the reporting standard was obvious.
If your in doubt as to which company to go with, request a sample of their report and compare them - the reason as to why you would engage Depreciator is obvious.

Karen

 

[redwing]

My personal preference is for depreciator (used for the last two IP's)

I've received numerous e-mails from Scott assisting me as well as spent some time with one of the WA Q/S's that they use..he said having done work for many companies Depreciator impressed him the most with thier professionalism and assistance regarding any changes to taxation issues (thanks Alistair)

Plus, using Depreciator reminded me of the professionalism you get from a small number of companies(actually reminded me of my ISP Internode)..PLUS Scott gives forum members a discount as well as a welath of advice..

Two thumbs up from me

 

[BMT & Assoc]

Introduction

Hi Patosan,
1. Tax work is a small part of the average QS job scope. Many QSs won't touch tax work - too many shifting rules. Some do it at tax time because they're getting phone calls, but because they're doing it sporadically, they're not always up to date with any ATO changes. You always want to use a QS who does alot of tax work - us, BMT, Washington Brown.
Scott

Hi All,

I would like to take this opportunity to introduce BMT & Assoc Quantity Surveyors. Firstly thankyou for the recommendation Scott, BMT & Assoc & Depreciator are actively a couple of the most professional Quantity Surveyors preparing property tax depreciation schedules in Australia. Scott has mentioned some of the details that separate us from other Quantity Surveyors who do not specialise in depreciation, and I could not agree more.

I have previously made a few personal posts, and would now like to offer my point of view when/if required as a depreciation consultant regarding any questions relating to property tax depreciation. Who knows, Scott and I may even have different views on certain topic's, and could make way for interesting debates! (eg Green Kitchens??)

As I have already mentioned I have read many threads and I understand the objection to advertising ones company before being proactive in many discussions before hand, though I thought a quick introduction was in order before we get involved.

Best Regards

David B

 

[depreciator]

Yes, BMT and us have a vested interest in raising the standards and compliance of people doing depreciation work. There is one company in particular who disappoint us.

Scott and I may even have different views on certain topic's, and could make way for interesting debates! (eg Green Kitchens??)

You're probably a Newcastle boy, David. You'd hate lime green.

Scott

 

[WashingtonBrown]

Lets make this a threesome!!!!

Why should Scott (who i know well) have all the fun!!!

My introduction is brief - My Name is Tyron Hyde and i'm a director of www.washingtonbrown.com.au.

I think this forum will benefit from Three wise heads.

Funnily enough i was just meeting Brad Beer, a director of BMT, so it's all friendly amongst those companies that should be used!!

Hopefully in the future, investors will be able to benefit from all of us.

My background, Associate of the AAIQS, UTS Qualified in 1991 (eek feel old)

Regards and hope to contribute.

Tyron Hyde

 

[NickM]

In our Practice we see a fair number of QS reports.
I can almost guarantee an error by looking at the front cover. There are some real dodgy depreciation reports out there.

Some investors annoy me immensley. They are spending several tens / hundreds of thousands of dollars on an IP and quibble over $200-300.

Trust me if the report is not right and your accountant is on the ball it wont take long to incur that cost in trying to rectify it.

When we are asked to refer to a QS we prefer Depreciator and Washington Brown.

Depreciator have an excellent system in place and if our clients book online we receive a report emailed to us. We then save it and it will sit there until we need it for the tax return next year. I had a difference of opinion with Scott a few years back in relation to a client but all was sorted without a drama.

I have personally used WB and they have been very good.
I couldnt tell you how much it cost because i just wanted it to be done right and Tyron and his team did a top job.

You get what you pay for !
NickM

 

[Patosan]

I can almost guarantee an error by looking at the front cover. There are some real dodgy depreciation reports out there.

Nick, could you give some examples of types of errors ?

One thing I got a bit confused about when I called around to 4 QS Co was on how much info to give them.
Several professionals told me not to give them much at all, let them do there thing ... evaluate ... and expect that it would be higher than I actually paid. I could then use this rather than the truth and get higher tax deductions. If their evaluation came back lower, give them the data and get them to UP their report. Supposedly a no-lose situation.
One QS Co said yes ... that's what they would do and most clients are happy with that. They would UP the report at no extra charge if it turned out to be lower than real cost.

Scott of Depreciator and Ryan (a lovely chap) from BMT reaffirmed my feeling that it would be foolhardy to risk ATO trouble overclaiming where the real costs are so well documented ... building contracts.
Scott also spent some time answering other questions for me over the phone ... thanks mate.

How many Co supply photos of all items ?
The email that Ryan sent me mentioned photos being taken of all items but didn't actually say they'd be supplied. When I last used BMT in Nov 2002 there weren't any pics in the report. Being in Japan and usually not seeing my purchases for some time the pics would be very handy. e.g. I don't expect to see these new T/H till Xmas '07, almost 2 years.

 

[Patosan]

2. We have on on-line facility for people to update their Depreciator reports when they do future renos etc.
Scott

Now that sounds interesting ! How does it work ?
Do we then print out a whole new report or simply an amendment ?
Do you post it or do we actually D/L or print it ?

I feel this is asking too much but perhaps more imprtant for most people would be :
having their reports updated after ATO rule changes.
This is far more likely to affect everyone but I fear is a major task.
However here could be an opportunity for a Co to get an edge on the market .

 

[WashingtonBrown]

Thanks NICK

I must say your article explaining the treatment of the sect. 43 allowance and CGT was one of the clearest on the topic i have ever read.

I made my all my staff read it!!

Regards

Tyron

 

[depreciator]

Quote:
Originally Posted by depreciator
2. We have on on-line facility for people to update their Depreciator reports when they do future renos etc.
Scott

Now that sounds interesting ! How does it work ?
Do we then print out a whole new report or simply an amendment ?
Do you post it or do we actually D/L or print it ?

I feel this is asking too much but perhaps more imprtant for most people would be :
having their reports updated after ATO rule changes.
This is far more likely to affect everyone but I fear is a major task.
However here could be an opportunity for a Co to get an edge on the market .

A couple of things to answer here:

1. Our on-line update facility generates an entire new report. Naturally, the property owner will know what they spent on the renos. The new report is e-mailed out after being checked by a QS. If we don't feel there is sufficient additional depreciation in the report to justify the $49.50 cost, we refund this. (Alternatively, you take your receipts to your accountant.)

2. When the ATO make changes (and they've made a few of late), they tend to relate more to reports produced from the date of the changes. Can you imagine the uproar if there was an expectation that every report ever done had to be amended? (Of course, we wouldn't mind.)
Having said that, when the July 1 2004 changes were announced, we heard a rumour that one company was contacting clients and implying that their reports needed updating. The rumour wasn't confirmed, but we were getting calls from concerned clients so we (and I think Washington Brown) contacted our clients to tell them their existing reports were fine.

Scott

 

[geoffw]

Nick, could you give some examples of types of errors ?

I had one QS forget to include about $10K worth of stuff

 

[depreciator]

To answer Patosan's question about errors, there are two really obvious ones that accountants and the ATO find easy to spot:

1. Incorrect depreciation rates being used. The rate used for Assets (fixtures and fittings) depends on when they were purchased.

2. Items being listed as Assets when they are really part of the building. The Asset list gets shuffled periodically. I saw a report recently that had kitchen cupboards listed as an Asset. TV aerials are now part of the building. So are clotheslines. And security grills. And distribution gear. And telephone installations. The list goes on and on and changes from time to time.

When the ATO look at a recently produced report, the easiest thing for them to do is look down the Asset list. If there are things that shouldn't be there, the report is wrong. Simple as that. Now that's not necessarily going to trigger a full blown audit or anything like that, but it is going to result in questions. I just think where possible, it's best to avoid taking the risk of provoking questions from the ATO. And the best way to do that is to use a QS company that does tax work every day of they year, as opposed to just at tax time. If that costs you an extra 150 tax deductible dollars, so be it.

Scott

 

[NickM]

In addition to incorrect rates being used
* Depreciation calculated for the entire Fin year when the IP was purchased part way through the year;

*Not classifying small items into Low Value Pools where possible;

Here is a classic ;
I have 1 client who owns 2 units in the same complex, 1BR and the other a 2BR. Both units have identical appliances, but the QS report valued these identical appliances differently. Eg Dishwasher in unit 1 $1200 Unit 2 $1400
They were identical ! this was the case with every appliance. they even included curtains becaause the client told him he was getting them in stalled but the report was issued and the curtains did not end up going in as the client had a dispute with the supplier.

The QS stood their ground and refused to amend the report. They had the contract for the entire complex and based their values on the Sqm of each unit. I was appalled at their attitude and yes they are a major player.
nick

 

[Patosan]

How many Co supply photos of all items ?

I didn't expect that anyone would supply pics of all items ... so is that the case ?
Do Depreciator, BMT or Washington Brown supply pics ?

 

[WashingtonBrown]

Hi Patosan

From our point of view and probably BMT, but they can speak for themselves!, we have two types of jobs or projects.

a. Where we act on behalf of the financier and inspect the job throughout the construction phase. We know the actual costs and have all the plans specs etc etc. The photos here we take are of the project overall, during construction. However, on the final progress claim, we have no reason to take a photo of every single units individual plant items etc. We act on jobs for Walkers Meriton in this manner and it would take years! So in this case i guess the answer is no.

B. Where the costs are unknown, generally a second hand property, and we inspect the property, yes we are more than happy for the client to recieve all the photos. Depending on the job - this could range from 10-30 photos. We dont include them in the report.


Regards

 

[depreciator]

A word on new apartments. As Tyron mentioned, WB work with alot of developers. All large projects would have a QS involved at every stage. This QS will know the costs of the project intimately and will in all likelihood be able to produce a Schedule at a very reasonable cost. When people call us about brand new apartments, we always ask them to talk to the developer first and find out if there are Schedules available or if the developer can put them in touch with the QS on the project. The Schedules are often easy to obtain, but have simply not been offered. We had a call last year about a development in Sydney that I knew WB were involved in. The most prudent thing for me to do was to give the client WB's phone number.
Scott
Something else to consider, the best time to go looking for the Schedule is BEFORE you get the keys. Sometimes developers are less cooperative when the dust has settled on a sale. The big ones are fine, but the medium size ones can be harder to pin down.

 

[skater]

The last report I had done was done by one of the "Big" companies (not Depreciator) and I was extremely upset by the way in which it was done. I found out later that it was in fact ficticious as the QS didn't even inspect the property. I did, however, get some good advice from Scott at Depreciator & will use him in the future.

If you are getting one done PM me & I will tell you who it was that I used.

 

[Patosan]

I believe this is not uncommon Skater,

What initially made you upset with the way it was done ?
How did you find out they hadn't inspected ?
What was their response ?

Have a good one
Patrick