If you are a rare breed on SS (who comprise of astute property investors), don't you think you will also be a rare breed in the general population?
Desired Place to Live in Melbounre
- Thread starter pickle pickle
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If you are a rare breed on SS (who comprise of astute property investors), don't you think you will also be a rare breed in the general population?
I'm just being objective here - i've been investigating investing in point cook maybe 3 years ago till now.
i was looking at the featherbrook estate which is a central equity land estate. No body corp - good plots of land. there were around 200K around 3 years ago given the size of around 350-400sqm land. and there're around 225-240K now for similar size. I'm not taking into account specific plots where they're directly facing the lake or somewhere but just off the plan plots.
I understand that for a family place to live - it's ideal.. especially if you have pets which you can walk and lots of open space. But investments wise - it is kind of lower return compared to other suburbs in terms of rate of return and strategy. I have a friend who is on a bridging visa and has 2 big dogs which instantly got approved for rental on the spot - 350 per week for a 3 bedroom house - no full time job and just looking for a place to shelve his stuff. My connections in that estate has also told me that vacancies are quite high in that estate in regards to rental. If you compare it to say the city - and this is from experience as i personally managed my ip rentals.. i had like 100 calls in 2 weeks making it just coming down to choosing the appropriate tenat.. Just from my point of view - i like the secure feeling that i am able to rent out my place irrespective of how high or low the rent compared to leaving it empty of say 2 months on average per year. It's just lower return in terms in terms of mortgage payments etc.
How do you manage to look inside the heads of the 'posters' to decide if they are right or wrong in their choices or thinking. If someone says they would rather live in Point Cook then their must be a reason for that. For you to then jump in and start questioning those posters or their motivation is juvenile.
whole time...?? as in two and a half minutes that you have been on the forum for..!
No, definitely not. You are a rather common breed. There have been a few like you in the past who have since left after a few posts or been banned due to their constant negative posts and very intense 'shove-down-your-throat' type approach to otherwise useful and constructive debates.
I dont know how long have you been investing and where you invest. I have invested in very blue chip suburbs, middle ring suburbs, outer metro, regional interstate and metro interstate. You sound new to the game. Dont know about Point Cook or Werribee but I have a very large chunk of properties in Frankston, Frankston North and Frankston South. This debate has been done to death in the forums over the last few years about blue chip suburbs vs outer suburbs. You should go and read some of those threads.
Can someone please find the link and paste here which included median values of the last 10 and 20 years of outer vs inner suburbs as well as the threads on inner vs outer ? I tried locating but couldnt find the threads.
Here are the facts:
On a % growth basis, from 2002 to 2010, my inner melbourne blue chip portfolio has come equal third along with my middle ring melbourne (east) portfolio whereas my interstate regional has appreciated by over twice the rate I got from suburbs in Kew and Mont Albert. Second in place is my portfolio in Frankston. On top of that, my yields have been the least in Kew and Mont Albert compared to any of my other purchases including regional or metro interstate, outer melbourne or middle ring melbourne.
I pity at your very simplistic approach to all things investing.. You dont have a remote understanding of the variables of investing over and above the simple 'asset competition'.
Here are some facts. On a % terms over the last 10 years, Frankston (thinking rich..???? I dont think so) has increased more in its median value than Toorak. Get the data and compare. Frankston North has increased more than Canterbury in % terms. Dandenong has achieved the same growth in % terms when compared with Brighton... On top of that the yields in all of those 'povvy' suburbs are almost twice you will get in inner. So in absolute terms, if you had X dollars to spend to fast-track property acqusition and equity growth, then owing to very high yield you would have more equity to play with if you invested in Franskton than if you did in Toorak. Infact, you can buy and hold 1.8 properties in Frankston/ Dandenong and Springvale than you can in Toorak or Kew (serviceability) and hence if the growth is same, you will be 1.8 times better off investing in those suburbs than investing in Toorak.
Toorak's median was $1m + in 1999. As of Jan 2010 it is $2.67m http://data1.reiv.com.au/trendchart/default.aspx
Now if the Frankston's median has increased 2.5 times in the last 10 years, Frankston's median has improved 3 times... Check the medians and come back
Have a look at Werribee, Craigieburn, Sprigvale and Dandenong and they have appreciated very close in % terms to Toorak and Brighton median in the last 10 years. Your argument does not hold water.
Add on the yield factor and your argument sounds more like an empty myth and one of the most frequently busted myths in the world of property investing..
Now tell us about your investment journey - When you started, where you invested and what else you do besides paddling myths on property investing..
Harris
Good Post Harris
Why pity this person? They have now a great opportunity to learn from the information you have provided. It is gold.
Cheers, MTR
The reason is because they can't afford anywhere else, for what they want, which is a big new double storey house on a decent plot of land with wide streets. Don't go and tell me, they rather live in Point Cook instead of living in say, a Toorak, Brighton, Canterbury, East Melbourne etc... with the same big new double storey house on a decent plot of land with wide streets. The next question you need to ask is why they can't afford it, and most often than not, it is a combination of poor investment choices by themselves or by previous family generations.
You are the type of person who believes expertise requires longevity and having 20+ years experience in property investing. This is obviously not true and you don't need me to find examples proving this. You also seem to imply having a few properties in Werribee/Hoppers or having a net wealth of $4-5mil is impressive. It's not.
Just because I am forthright and negative doesn't mean it is not useful and constructive. All you keep talking about is my negativity, yet you have said absolutely nothing that is even close to a successful rebuttal of my arguments. What credibility is that? And sure, I have had a few warnings on SS and could be banned in the near future (maybe even tonight), but that doesn't mean I am wrong. If anything, it proves that people will defend their vested interests at all costs, regardless of whether my arguments are rock solid or not. That is pretty sad.
Again, you confuse expertise with longevity. Sure, I am 23 and only have the one house to show for it but taking into account my parents, that would be a heck of a lot of experience there. Had a budget of about $1.5mil to buy but couldn't compete with the mainlanders in Kew, Hawthorn, Camberwell, Canterbury etc...so decided to switch to inner city. I wouldn't say my parents are rich (not even close) but doing alright still they came over here as boatpeople with nothing. All they did was work in factories and buy little shoeboxes inner city. We know heaps of people who went and bought out in Werribee/Hoppers, St Albans, Springvale etc 10, 15 years ago...and sure, in terms of quantity, they have more, but net wealth not even close to ours. My parents obviously knew better.
Harris;632159Can someone please find the link and paste here which included median values of the last 10 and 20 years of outer vs inner suburbs as well as the threads on inner vs outer ? I tried locating but couldnt find the threads. Here are the facts: On a % growth basis said:http://data1.reiv.com.au/trendchart/default.aspx[/url]
Now if the Frankston's median has increased 2.5 times in the last 10 years, Frankston's median has improved 3 times... Check the medians and come back
Have a look at Werribee, Craigieburn, Sprigvale and Dandenong and they have appreciated very close in % terms to Toorak and Brighton median in the last 10 years. Your argument does not hold water.
your link shows over 5 years...you can't even interpret statistics mate!
http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?a=sp&s=vic&u=toorak
The most recent median house price for Toorak is $3,730,000 and the median unit price is $528,500.
That alone rips all your arguments totally to the max! You think in terms of % growth, whilst I think in terms of absolute growth. That is where we differ! I dunno about you, but I'd prefer absolute growth by a mile!!!
There is no need for Toorak myths. The capital growth alone (via land banking) completely dominates any yield you achieve on your Frankston properties. Again, you talk in terms of % growth and % yield yet under the illusion of starting on a lower base. I doubt you can make around $3mil in rental after tax in your pocket income over 10 years, so indeed, you got completely owned.
No-one here is confusing expertise with longevity... it's just very clear to most of us that you don't really have the ''expertise'' that you think you have.
I don't think anyone here would discredit your parents' achievements and experience... but as for you, surprisingly having come from a family of such humble beginnings, to come on here preaching like you are some sort of property investing oracle... well, that is hilarious... you're embarrassing yourself (and your folks) mate!
You didn't even buy that Brunswick house on your own two feet! That's kind of like gloating that you bought a massively positively geared RIP... with a 50% deposit (from your parents)!
I know some stereotypical Gen Y like yourself, you have that ''what's my parents is mine'' attitude...
Grow up.
btw can someone please pass me the popcorn...
Not everyone in this world gets a helping hand, mate. So consider yourself very lucky.
If you had $1.5 million, why didn't you buy two of your $600k brunswick houses?
Err.... data from realestate.com? Now THAT makes me laugh!
JIT - I've caramel or double butter, what would you prefer?
I'm enjoying the "healthy debate" even tho' it's once again off topic!
This is rubbish. There are thousands of people who CHOOSE not to live in some of the suburbs you mentioned, similar to RumpledElf. I won't dispute that there is generally high demand for the "premium" suburbs, but when you keep saying "everyone wants to live there" that's pure unadulterated crap. That's like saying "Everyone wants to live in Queensland" - they don't, do they, or Victoria would be empty.
I personally would NOT like to live in Toorak or any of those other suburbs you mention. No interest whatsoever. I don't even want to live in Melbourne! It just doesn't suit my lifestyle; I don't like the traffic or the crowds and don't need to visit the city, so why would I want to live near it?
Everyone has different goals, but the absolute growth vs. %age growth is meaningless. One MUST use %age growth to objectively compare different investments.
If I told you I made $1 on NAB (@ $26) you'd go "so what", coz that's only about 4%, but if I made $1 on BSL (@ $2.60) that's 40% and pretty impressive (assuming I have the same amount invested in each share). It's about return on investment - and the same applies to property.
If I made $50k on an investment in Toorak (which might be $1M) vs. $50k on a $250k house elsewhere, how could you say that the absolute growth in Toorak is "better" than the absolute growth anywhere else. BUT a 10% increase in either investment obviously results in a much higher absolute growth in Toorak. So one must look at %age growth to get a meaningful measure of return.
This is rubbish. There are thousands of people who CHOOSE not to live in some of the suburbs you mentioned, similar to RumpledElf. I won't dispute that there is generally high demand for the "premium" suburbs, but when you keep saying "everyone wants to live there" that's pure unadulterated crap. That's like saying "Everyone wants to live in Queensland" - they don't, do they, or Victoria would be empty.
I personally would NOT like to live in Toorak or any of those other suburbs you mention. No interest whatsoever. I don't even want to live in Melbourne! It just doesn't suit my lifestyle; I don't like the traffic or the crowds and don't need to visit the city, so why would I want to live near it?
Everyone has different goals, but the absolute growth vs. %age growth is meaningless. One MUST use %age growth to objectively compare different investments.
If I told you I made $1 on NAB (@ $26) you'd go "so what", coz that's only about 4%, but if I made $1 on BSL (@ $2.60) that's 40% and pretty impressive (assuming I have the same amount invested in each share). It's about return on investment - and the same applies to property.
If I made $50k on an investment in Toorak (which might be $1M) vs. $50k on a $250k house elsewhere, how could you say that the absolute growth in Toorak is "better" than the absolute growth anywhere else. BUT a 10% increase in either investment obviously results in a much higher absolute growth in Toorak. So one must look at %age growth to get a meaningful measure of return.
No-one here is confusing expertise with longevity... it's just very clear to most of us that you don't really have the ''expertise'' that you think you have.
I don't think anyone here would discredit your parents' achievements and experience... but as for you, surprisingly having come from a family of such humble beginnings, to come on here preaching like you are some sort of property investing oracle... well, that is hilarious... you're embarrassing yourself (and your folks) mate!
You didn't even buy that Brunswick house on your own two feet! That's kind of like gloating that you bought a massively positively geared RIP... with a 50% deposit (from your parents)!
I know some stereotypical Gen Y like yourself, you have that ''what's my parents is mine'' attitude...
Grow up.
btw can someone please pass me the popcorn...
er...I never said anything about 'myself' having expertise so don't try and make up things to distort my arguments. I am just saying not to confuse and/or stereotype perceived youth with a lack of expertise and/or success. In fact, expertise and success is not even measurable in quantifiable terms so I don't know what you regard as being an 'expert'.
Also, you are arguing on a pride and moral issue which is largely irrelevant and serves no purpose in refuting anything I have said. In fact, no one has successful refuted anything I have said. EVERYONE is just saying the same boring thing - 'grow up', 'embarrassing yourself', 'you have no idea'. You guys all have no arguments but kiddish comments.
Who cares if I get financial assistance from my parents? What has that got to do with anything? You should concentrate on how my parents were able to assist me from such 'humble beginnings' before you probe further. Also, I mentioned that I don't consider my family rich, so I don't know what you are trying to attack against.
Also, what is wrong with the Gen Y attitude? Does that automatically mean I am lazy, uneducated, morally wrong or a poor property investor?
That is because I don't buy on impulse, but rather make calculated decisions on future capital growth, potential for value adding and location, size, prestige of street etc...
I also don't know exactly what to do next...whether I should go into business, buy decent land for property development or another IP.
Sure, its data from realestate.com but what's your point? I am sure you use it as well so I don't know what the humour is. Just because you make a lame comment like that does not ridicule me, or my arguments, in fact, it is just a cheap fallacious tactic which everyone would see through anyway when people like you have no arguments. I can even say REIV is full of crap with its quoting of auction results. It is simply rubbish in, rubbish out.
LMAO........pass me the popcorn!!!
I vote DeeHwa, Deltaberry and Aazar for the Raspberries for the best actor, actress and supporting role!
I will save my breath......as facts are unlikely to have any impacts...
Here we go, Sash again as usual. No arguments, just cheap one-liners like the true comedians, haha.
Talking about net wealth, you probably only have about $4-5mil equity at best at 42 (I read your post in the $1mil equity thread) and a so called IT professional. That's pretty sad actually, haha, I just had to laugh. Actually, I reckon it is more $2-3mil in equity, but lets say $5mil as a buffer.
What amazes me is that there are all these SS posters who look up to people like you, as if you are God or something. Truly sad.
DeeHwa said:
I second Harris' question. Apart from simple generalist assumptions - how do you know for sure that 99.9% wants to live in Obvious Toorak? Are there any studies or surveys?
DeeHwa said:
Ooh more assumptions. Looking down on their ancestors now?
Actually, the next question is, why can't you accept that there are other suburbs out there with more character and personality than Toorak?
If you remove the 'prestige' veneer from Toorak, would you still live there? Why?
DeeHwa said:
I would like examples proving this, please.
DeeHwa said:
But just a few posts ago, you were promoting 3 million dollar Toorak houses. Care to tell us why you think $5 million is not impressive?
DeeHwa said:
And here you are still insisting that people believe your assumptions about 99.9%.
This thread makes me glad that a] I'm not from a long line of property investors b] I don't live in Victoria and c] I've only technically been a "property investor"* since November 2009 and thus have absolutely no cred at all
Share that popcorn around, folks!
*before that I would have used the title "compulsive renovator of old crappy houses"
Share that popcorn around, folks!
*before that I would have used the title "compulsive renovator of old crappy houses"
Its a pervasive attitude - My SIL has one house worth half a million. In a few months, we will have 3 houses worth a combined half a million. Ours will pay for themselves but because they are not in a swanky Eastern suburb in a capital city - all of my inlaws live in the leafy Eastern suburbs - that one house is worth soooooooooo much more than our three.
Why would I need surveys or further proof? It is proven by the fact that a Toorak like for like house is worth more than a like for like house in Point Cook. If you don't like Toorak, then try Brighton or Canterbury or any other prestige premium suburb.
Well, obviously if one is poor, it generally comes down to poor investment decisions by themselves and/or family and/or past generations. Got nothing to do with looking down. Just making a point that you are poor for a reason and that some people can only afford places like Point Cook 'for a reason'. The thing that annoys me the most is when people say 'they rather live in Point Cook than the snobbish suburbs like Toorak'. I have never had a problem with people saying 'I live in Point Cook because that is all I can afford'. Get your facts straight before you talk.
Since when have I talked about personality and character of suburbs? Again, misquoting me to substantiate a point. Anyways, sure, I can accept there are other suburbs with character and personality (having more is purely a subjective thing) but you'd still find the most expensive suburb is still a Toorak or a Brighton. Why? Simple supply and demand.
Er, if it didn't have the 'prestige' veneer then this topic would not exist because you might as well buy in Point Cook. Your assumption is just plain silly.
Can't believe you are asking the obvious. I suggest you go check the BRW young rich list before you ask silly questions.
Again, a perfect example of writing before you think. So sad. Do you really think anyone in Toorak would only own one asset - that being the average $3mil house? These guys would most likely be a corporate high-flyer, in business, a celebrity, a sportsperson or a rich retiree amongst maybe a few other well-off groups I forgot to mention.
Yes, I do insist that people believe that 99.9% of the population would rather own a like for like house in Toorak (or any other affluent suburb like a Brighton), as compared to Point Cook. The other 0.1% are the mentally insane.
And if their precious leafy suburbian house has termites... ?
I fear that we are getting severely off-topic.
May I have some double-butter popcorn whilst this thread lasts?
Er, if your house had termites, you would ALSO be sleeping in the street so what is your point?
Sure, it was an attempted joke, but not only was it not funny, but it didn't even make sense.
Never wanted to live in Toorak
Never understood the attraction
Never wanted a house that needed a staff just to keep it habitable.
Never understood why $2000 for a pair of shoes made in a Korean sweat shop was better than $49 for the same pair of shoes made in a Korean sweat shop.
Dont understand why
a camry with lexus badges is $50K more than a camry with toyota badges
pay $300 for a boutique haircut from a stylist who works 2 days a week in 'just cuts' $15
Dont understand why the widget is no longer in guiness draft <-important Q that <--
Dont understand why this thread is argumentative
Am having Serious PopCorn cravings
Never understood the attraction
Never wanted a house that needed a staff just to keep it habitable.
Never understood why $2000 for a pair of shoes made in a Korean sweat shop was better than $49 for the same pair of shoes made in a Korean sweat shop.
Dont understand why
a camry with lexus badges is $50K more than a camry with toyota badges
pay $300 for a boutique haircut from a stylist who works 2 days a week in 'just cuts' $15
Dont understand why the widget is no longer in guiness draft <-important Q that <--
Dont understand why this thread is argumentative
Am having Serious PopCorn cravings
Last edited:
Deewah,
You've written so much fluff that I've actually lost sight of what your points actaully are. How about, for arguments sake, you summarise for us all, say the top 5 points you are trying to get across. That may help us delve further instead of going around in circles with you. This also may help pin down your views, as you tend to skew your viewpoint once someone prooves otherwise.
ps:
Then, someone actually asked you to back up your assuptions with hard data, and your response was:
Hmmm.....
Also,
It has alot to do with everything you've said. Joe Blogs on 70k single income with Wife and 3 kids has more wealth in his one house in point cook, than you do in your Brunswick rental, because he's achieved it on his own. There is alot to be said for standing on your own two feet and achieving something as wonderful as your own home for your children.
But, I do give you 100% for effort and passion, thou! I'm sure it's been hard pulling away from your Wii or PS3. I just hope that you try and look beyond your own pride and learn something from the wealth of information on this forum.
You've written so much fluff that I've actually lost sight of what your points actaully are. How about, for arguments sake, you summarise for us all, say the top 5 points you are trying to get across. That may help us delve further instead of going around in circles with you. This also may help pin down your views, as you tend to skew your viewpoint once someone prooves otherwise.
ps:
Then, someone actually asked you to back up your assuptions with hard data, and your response was:
Hmmm.....
Also,
It has alot to do with everything you've said. Joe Blogs on 70k single income with Wife and 3 kids has more wealth in his one house in point cook, than you do in your Brunswick rental, because he's achieved it on his own. There is alot to be said for standing on your own two feet and achieving something as wonderful as your own home for your children.
But, I do give you 100% for effort and passion, thou! I'm sure it's been hard pulling away from your Wii or PS3. I just hope that you try and look beyond your own pride and learn something from the wealth of information on this forum.
