disheartened by renovation

Hello
I have been renovating a house full time since august last year.
I purchased this place for 260k in 1999.
I had it rented out before the renovation at 475per week. After having problems with the tenants, and after they moved out I decided to continue renovating the house. I have completed the following:

Replaced all 70s hollow doors (rotten and lifting laminate), with new modern hollow doors, complete with architectal door levers through-out.

all non private doorways had bevelled french glass doors installed 10 in total, all painted high gloss white with architectual door levers.

painted the entire house nuetral colours instead of mission brown.

replaced the funky 70s lighting with modern lighting through-out the house.

Installed 5 outside light zones that are motion activated, uplights, downlights, up-down lights, mushroom, spotlights all halogen.

put 50 sq metres of solid tassie oak flooring in the games room, in place of the rotten red carpet that had a smelly yeast odour to it as well as a large rats nest underneath it.

replaced the ugly looking carpet with floating floors.

replaced the ugly tapware with modern gold . chrome variaty

covered the brown bare brick in the entry with gyprock.

replaced 3 large decks and the associated railing.

painted the entire exterior of the house, and replaced all guttering with colorbond.

about 500 other major jobs

I used 300 litres of paint in the renovation total.

I replaced all rotten timber, I preserved the rest and put flashing on any exposed timber.

I renovated 3 bathrooms so that they all look modern.

I renovated the kitchen and laundry.

Basically not one part of the house remained untouched.

The bank valuation before the exterior renovation was 440k.

I then got talked into this set sale thing to sell the house, and was shown all these pretty graphs that seemed to make sense to me.
A valuation was carried out by the real estate agents valuer which came in at 420K, I was concerned because this is far below the banks valuation.
To cut a long story short no offers were put in during the set sale process.
I then find out the agents dropped the pricing of the house without telling me advertising in the range of 350 to 430k.
I explained to the agent I was not very happy he dropped the price without telling me, and advised him it makes me look desperate to sell, and that if I was I buyer I would put an offer of 350k.
He said that it does not work like that, and that it was to draw in more buyers, I said that seeing as he is the proffessional I would take his advise, however if I get several offers at 350k then I would not be happy.
Well thats exactly what happened, I told him to withdraw the property from sale, it has left a sour taste in my mouth. I now owe the man 8000 dollars mainly for advertising etc with no result.
I feel that he contradicted himself when the house did not sell, and what he said makes me think that he new this set sale system was not appropriate for the type of house I was selling (unique).
The house is on 2 (mainly vertical) acres 15 mins from the city (Adelaide) its about 280 square metres of house with heated inground pool, sauna, Gazeebo, spa, 5 decks, a massive games room with full size billiard table included. Its got 2 water falls, a fountain, 2 fish ponds, electronic water system etc.

And to be told its only worth 100k more than I bought it for 4 years ago, its a real shock.
All the real estate agent wanted to do is keep dropping the price, I could hire a dumb monkey to do that and I would save a fortune in commision.
 
I want to live there! Sounds great!

I dont want to open the wounds on this forum about misdirection by REA's, but it would appear to be so in this case. I know nothing about your area, your house, your market, but if the house was exposed to the market at $350K and the majority of interested/potential buyers know about it then I think you can kiss your $8K goodbye, remarketing to the same pool of buyers it at a higher price would be tough ask. REA's have two ways to make a sale get a buyer to pay more or get the seller to accept less, they can, and do work on both sides!

I can simply share your pain, I too have been caught in the general price declines, I suppose you can just rent it out once again.
 
Adaran,

That's a hard deal you have.

However I do not believe that you should entirely blame the Real Estate Agent - although IMHO changing the range without your permission is grounds for not paying them - unless you gave them this discretion in the agreement, check the fine print!

It sounds like you also got caught in the shift from seller to buyers' market, as have many others.

However you also need to look closer to home.

Painful as it may be to hear (and you're welcome to shoot the messenger if it makes you feel better) - it may be that you over-renovated the property.....did too much work without considering what was required to increase the value for a decent return.

I think you should also keep this in mind in your future projects.

All the best in getting the result you want.

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Hello
While it would make me feel better to shoot the messanger (and the agent) I suppose you could be right.
I tried very hard to stick to the fundementals of renovating, cosmetic only, and dont spend more than a certain percentage of the purchase price.
For a house of 260K, that was valued by the bank at 440k, I did not think 50k was that excessive.
There are some rules I did break
The house is on a main road.
the back of the house has not been renovated due to the fact its a 1 metre space between the house and the cliff.
during inspections some small jobs had not been completed giving an unfinished appearance.
I was silly enough to think buyers could see past this.
I did get several offers, but non acceptable to me.
I have tennants moving in tommorow, so I will not be selling the house now.

One important piece of advice I would give to renovators, if there is an underlying problem like woodrot etc just paint over it, dont waste time doing a good job, as long as there is a good coat of paint over anything offensive buyers don't seem to notice.
for example given the choice of spending 2 weeks reinsulating a roof to stop mould and that wet feeling in the house, and fixing a small wooden fence, I would fix and paint the wooden fence, and a day before the inspection wash the mould off the cieling, saves heaps of time and that wooden fence that leads no-where is so important to buyers.
 
I’ve renovated houses in the past and you’ve got to remember there are at least 3 types of renovations.

1) Renovate to sell
2) Renovate to lease
3) Renovate to live in

Sounds like you did number 3………….
 
I agree with Cosmo here :)

Frankly considering the cost of the property we would probably have set a budget around the $26K mark (10% of purchase price).

However that's sight unseen of course. If we didn't feel we could get it to an appropriate salesworthy level with that level spend, we'd have passed.

It sounds as if you'd still make a decent profit on the property at a $400 level, but at $350 you may as well keep it, refinance to the level the bank valued it at & use the cash to buy the next place.......of course it will be quite negatively geared at this point, but if you purchase wisely you could turn the mini-portfolio into a neutral or even slightly positive one (ie: using the funds to buy positively geared NZ property, where the surplus cashflow pays for the loan over this property).

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Last edited:
Hello
I panicked when I could not sell the house, due to the time of the year and the fact its a summer house with a pool etc, I thought the attraction of the house would be minimal, and also I was starting to believe all the negative points the estate agent kept talking about, quite frankly the way he was carrying on I was ready to give it away.
I told the agent to advertise it at 300 per week, I knew I had made a mistake when I had 5 applications within a day or 2 of advertising.

One thing I have realised after 10 years of property investing, and that is a property manager will always say to a landlord that its a bad time to rent, one of the reasons I put the house at such a bargain rent is that the property manager told me about a house at Unley that has been advertised for 4 months at 600 dollars, and has not recieved a single phone call. I then hear on the radio yesterday that Adelaide vacancy rates are at 1%, that practically means there are no vacancies, sometimes its hard to know what the truth is.

I am currently selling a house now (in place of the other one) at blakeview in Adelaides north. I went through an agent who was reccommended to me from the north eastern suburbs.
He advertised the house a couple of weeks ago in the messenger (local council papers), each region of adelaides metro area has its own version (north, north east, south, central etc). When I could not find the ad I questioned him, he said oh its definitely there in the north eastern messenger.
I felt like saying why not advertise it in the New York Times while your at it!
I never specified the northern messenger because I thought that it would be glaringly obvious that anything else would be a waste of time.
He has advertised it in the NE messenger because thats where his office is located, surprisingly the house has not sold yet.
My question is, if I have not signed anything specific, can I refuse to pay for that add?
Should I be surprised that something like this would happen, and is it a common occurence?
Why would an agent who has an incentive to sell the house (3% commission), do something that would so obviously waste time and money, I can't for the life of me understand it.

I think there is a time between being a novice investor, when you have no knowledge, no experience, and nothing to lose, and make big decisions without much thought, and being an expert investor where you can confidently make decisions knowing they are the right ones.

I think I am in that time, I have quite a bit to loose, I spend alot of time thinking about decisions I have to make, when I finally make those decisions they are not always the right ones, which causes me to worry about losing what I already have, which makes me read more books etc about investing, that tell me both the risks and rewards of investing, I start having nightmares about the risks because of all this knowledge I have, and knowing what can happen.

I heard a this comedian say last night.
"Ive just begun teaching investment in real estate to beginners"
"I don' know anything about investment or real estate but begginers don't know that"
 
Adaran,

You're in the stage where you're finding out how much you actually don't know about it - everyone goes through this stage & even so-called 'expert' investors often find themself in the same position - whenever they try something new, enter a new market or things (legislation, society, etc) change.

So don't stress too much - just make sure you do your research & make the best decisions you can.

Remember, you can nearly always change a decision - NOT making a decision is often worse than making the wrong decision.

Take care & good luck with the investing!

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
hi i dont know if you have read this book,
real estate mistakes by neil jenman
good book and makes you realise how agents rip u off.
good luck and make sure you view every house around u when selling or renting,and note condition and prices.
 
Sounds like you looked for the ad, couldn't find it and asked the REA who just made vague mumbling and placating noises. Ask for a copy of the ad. If they don't keep a copy of the ad with your file and you didn't find it in the paper I would make it clear that I was loathe to pay for it...

All the best for your ventures ;)
 
Hi Adaran

Would be very keen to know where your property is, sounds like we are currently doing just what you have done. Over capitalising on main road in Adelaide.

Would love to hear about your experiences in more detail. If you are interested in seeing if we can help each other out with info etc please email me.

Cheers :)
 
Hi Adaran

Why dont you use an agent with no sale no fee i did and was more than happy.

There is an agent that does North of Adelaide and operates like this and i found them to be very good.

Flat commission of $4500 and thats it. No advertising fee.

If you are interested to know PM me.

regards
BC
 
Hi Adrian01
Why do you think your house is so great?
The market price is only what the top buyer is willing to pay. He just hasnrt seen your place yet .Its Not what the majority would pay . You are not selling car , but a unique item not available elswhere

you dont need 5 buyers , just 1 buyer who for whatever reason wants your place at your price. Dont be too disheartened . it sounds like you did most thinks right. AS long as you havent become too emotionally attached to your house stick too your guns

maybe with all those Man hours invested you cant be detached?
If you had a list of everything you did given to every potential buyer how would they respond?
 
HI
If it's on a main road I'd keep it for a rental. I love main roda properties because the Vacany rates are low. I've never seen a for rent sign on a main road property (as long as it's in a good posiotion, eg. close to transport stops).

Darryl
 
Back
Top