Do i need a lift? 3 storey unit development.

[simo74]

Hi again

Another question. I need your opinions on my future multi unit development in St Kilda East. Details below

10 Apartments: 3 storey with basement car parking.
Ground floor: 4 x 2 bed 2 bath
1st floor: 6 x 2 bed 2 bath with second bedroom of each unit on the 2nd floor. Access to top floor bedrooms is via stairs from each 1st floor unit.

Question is as a buyer would you expect a lift considering it would only be a 2 storey walk up to the 1st floor units?

If i'm required to have a lift for accessibility reasons then i would be better off reducing the number of units on the first floor to 4 and have 2 separate units on the Top floor.

Just want to avoid the cost and associated hassles with having a lift if its not warranted. Thanks

 

[matto_]

we have lived 3 flights up, and the stairs kept us for but were a bit of an annoyance.

Depends on what market you are aiming for.

As an aside, would you be willing to share your high level feasibility etc.

I am curious as to how it all attacks up around that area.

Thanks.

 

[django]

we live on the top floor of a small block of six (2 units each level)... there is no lift and don't mind it at all as it keeps the strata costs down. in fact our criteria when buying was to avoid anywhere with a lift, pool, gym etc.

on the other hand i know investors who wouldn't buy our unit because ease of access is paramount (elderly, mothers with young children etc), so probably depends on the demographic

 

[Melbournian]

would depend where your development is. if it is in somewhere like mentone in vic it would be unlikely - some really your target buyer demographics would be something to consider.

 

[Aaron_C]

St Kilda East - lots of flats that don't have lifts in that area (old ones though). How much money / space are you estimated to save?

 

[DaveM]

Its a 2 storey walkup from the street, 3 from the carpark, I wouldnt bother with a lift.

 

[Aaron_C]

Its a 2 storey walkup from the street, 3 from the carpark, I wouldnt bother with a lift.

Depends on price point. For apartments at the higher end you definitely need a lift otherwise you simply won't get buyers. Body corporate fees are only a very secondary consideration as those fees are only determined AFTER the project is completed - so commonly body corporates/developers will ******** new purchasers about the fees and then slug them after completion - which you can/will do as well. Stop thinking like an investor and think like a developer.

 

[tcocaro]

No. If the building has 3 levels in total (including) basement I would never include a lift its not required and unless your target market is the very high end I wouldn't even contemplate it.

Basement + 3 levels then yes I would but again if your target market is the (low income) or more politically correct cost effective market then you may do without so long as its in a drive to lower your body corp fees across the board.

This has more to do with market positioning than anything else.

Good luck.

Hi again

Another question. I need your opinions on my future multi unit development in St Kilda East. Details below

10 Apartments: 3 storey with basement car parking.
Ground floor: 4 x 2 bed 2 bath
1st floor: 6 x 2 bed 2 bath with second bedroom of each unit on the 2nd floor. Access to top floor bedrooms is via stairs from each 1st floor unit.

Question is as a buyer would you expect a lift considering it would only be a 2 storey walk up to the 1st floor units?

If i'm required to have a lift for accessibility reasons then i would be better off reducing the number of units on the first floor to 4 and have 2 separate units on the Top floor.

Just want to avoid the cost and associated hassles with having a lift if its not warranted. Thanks

 

[redwing]

Pneumatic Vacuum Elevators

On another note, I was watching a TV show and saw these type of Pneumatic Vacuum Elevators in action

http://www.daytonaelevator.com/Pneumatic Vacuum Elevator Main Page.htm

The show had it replacing internal stairs and was set up in a day

 

[Player]

Hi Simo,

As has been mentioned already, there are a plethora of walk-ups in that suburb (old orange brick, some now rendered and modernised) that don't have lifts.

For something new here's my 0.02. It all depends on the calibre of the product and where in East St. Kilda it is. If it's amongst the neighbouring walk-ups, say around Alma Rd, Inkerman St, Hotham St west of Williams, then it is unlikely to be expected. If it's in the quadrangle of Orrong, Williams, Balaclava and Alma Rd's, (neighbouring North Caulfield) then that is a more up-market precinct or at least becoming that way last time I drove through and if you are targeting a higher end occupant (sell/rent), then you really should consider having a lift as it may differentiate your product from other developments.

The demographic you are targeting will determine this as will the level of finishes you are considering. What is your feedback from selling agents in the area?

 

[simo74]

It's on the southern end of Hotham Street towards Ripponlea. There are a number of developments occurring in the same street which is good to see.

Thanks again for everyone's thoughts. Here is some high level numbers for those who asked. If i have forgotten any particular item of significance let me know.

Land cost + Stamp duty = $947,000
Demolition = $30000
Planning/council and Documentation = $100k
Building Costs 850sq x $1600sq (Medium Finish) + Landscaping = $1,550,000
Project Manager = $80,000
Contingency = $150,000
Holding Costs = $100,000

Total cost is approx $3 million. Have included sufficient fat in the build cost and contingency to allow for the unexpected. Hopefully

Completion value @ avg price of $550,000 = $5.5 Million

Additionally have to allow for selling fees and GST/CGT say another 300k

Plan is to sell about 4 to cover the majority of my costs and keep the rest. Each should rent out for around 450 to 500 per week.

Hi Simo,

As has been mentioned already, there are a plethora of walk-ups in that suburb (old orange brick, some now rendered and modernised) that don't have lifts.

For something new here's my 0.02. It all depends on the calibre of the product and where in East St. Kilda it is. If it's amongst the neighbouring walk-ups, say around Alma Rd, Inkerman St, Hotham St west of Williams, then it is unlikely to be expected. If it's in the quadrangle of Orrong, Williams, Balaclava and Alma Rd's, (neighbouring North Caulfield) then that is a more up-market precinct or at least becoming that way last time I drove through and if you are targeting a higher end occupant (sell/rent), then you really should consider having a lift as it may differentiate your product from other developments.

The demographic you are targeting will determine this as will the level of finishes you are considering. What is your feedback from selling agents in the area?

 

[wylie]

The demographic you are targeting will determine this as will the level of finishes you are considering. What is your feedback from selling agents in the area?

Even with the numbers posted about the proposed development, I think this snippet from Player is the important thing to check out.

 

[Aaron_C]

This makes no sense. 850 sqm, 10 apartments over 3 levels? Even allowing for a 30% area for common areas/gardens, that leaves 595 sqm per level of sellable space, which is 60 sqm per apartment. And you want $9,000 per sqm without a lift with medium finish....apartments without lifts are for low-quality developments, not medium ones.

 

[Scott No Mates]

lifts are relatively cheap. If it makes the block more saleable it is worthwhile. Just don't get the cheapest.

 

[Melbournian]

assuming the target market is above 45 and above where their knees aren't the best - would see having lifts. ppl below that age group wouldn't have the cash though unless they're china or some rich kid who has cash to splurge.

 

[simo74]

It includes a lift. Avg unit size is 73sqm not including courtyards. 30% common areas is not smart design.

This makes no sense. 850 sqm, 10 apartments over 3 levels? Even allowing for a 30% area for common areas/gardens, that leaves 595 sqm per level of sellable space, which is 60 sqm per apartment. And you want $9,000 per sqm without a lift with medium finish....apartments without lifts are for low-quality developments, not medium ones.

 

[Aaron_C]

It includes a lift. Avg unit size is 73sqm not including courtyards. 30% common areas is not smart design.

Thanks for clarifying that up. 73 sqm each is far more reasonable for that price.

 

[morty]

Hi Simo74,

Just trying to work your numbers out here mate. I'm doing a similar development in Brunswick which is 11 apartments over 3 levels with basement carpark. My numbers are considerably higher than yours.

Does your $1,550,000 include the construction of the basement carpark? i'm looking at around $1000 to $1200 per sq m of basement area. Not sure if you've included that?

I think you just need to be wary of your costings as 10x 2bed apartments with basement built for $1.55m sounds fantastically cheap. Do you mind me asking who has done the quote for you?

Cheers

Morty