Do I need a sparky to change a light switch?

[depreciator]

I'm currently doing a PPOR bathroom reno.

Which necessitated rewiring that part of the house.

I thought it wise to get an electrician to do the job.

Got a referral and got lucky with a reliable, competent (from what I can see) reasonably priced bloke.

I didn't realise a GPO in a bathroom had to be a certain distance above floor height.

Or that there was a minimum distance from a shower.

And a tub.

I suspect violating any of these things would make an insurance policy void in the event of an accident?

 

[A95]

How many times do you pay a licensed tradesman for a shoddy job???

I would have thought never.

Putting up with and paying for shoddy electrical wiring should not be tolerated.

If you think it is unsafe in anyway, you should be reporting it. It's your life at the end of the day.

Cheers

Rooster

How would you know it is unsafe?
What would you report? 'Er..., I think is not safe...'
Would you pay someone to check that the electrician wired the switch incorrectly?
Would you trust the tester?
Think before you give an 'advice'!

 

[jaycee]

Funny thing is when I asked a couple of sparkies I sort of know whether they were intrested in a replacing few powerpoints at my place for me , I got told by more than 1 to fit just em myself !

 

[Tuppence]

Pretty sure you always did.

Cheers,
Beef.

Really? Ooops

 

[Rooster]

How would you know it is unsafe?

1- There is loose wires hanging from the switch
2- The plastic around the connection is melting because the wire has not been terminated correctly.
3- The circuit breaker continually trips because the circuit is overloaded.
4- There is sparks coming from the socket outlet!!

Are you getting the picture!! I don't expect you to rip out a multimeter!

What would you report? 'Er..., I think is not safe...'

You would report it to your State Government Electrical Safety Department. Chances are they will send round an inspector pretty quick smart.

Would you pay someone to check that the electrician wired the switch incorrectly?

No you wouldn't. However, if the plastic around your socket was melting and there was imminent danger that your house was about to burn down then i might be inclined to turn the main switch off!

Would you trust the tester?

Would i trust the Electrical Safety Inspector? As long as he didn't introduce himself as a plumber!

Think before you give an 'advice'!

You are telling me to think before i give advice? I'd probably suggest that it's best that you don't do you own electrical wiring for obvious reasons....


Cheers

Rooster

 

[redwing]

No such thing as an over regulated electrical industry.

We live in the land of cowboys and half-arsed DIYers.

Rooster

Plumbers???

Nasty stuff that electrickery, it bites!!

 

[Sunfish]

We live in the land of cowboys and half-arsed DIYers.

I learnt Ohm's law 50 years ago and worked on some VERY high voltage stuff before I quit to try to make an honest dollar. I regularly step over the fuzzy line when fixing stuff with v little mains and a lot of "control" voltages.

But if people don't know what they are doing, clearly they shouldn't do it.

 

[pulse]

From silicon chip online;

"(1). In a comparative study of international annual electrical fatality statistics done by the New Zealand Energy Safety Serv ice, Queensland consistently had the highest levels of electrical fatalities in Australia. Much more interestingly, Australia had higher levels of electrical fatalities than any other country studied, with the exception of Northern Ireland.

This New Zealand study confirmed the results of a similar study done by the German government, so the results are corroborated. The country with the lowest electrical fatalities (by a huge margin, varying from year to year between 0.5 and less than 0.1 deaths per million of population), is The Netherlands, and this is one of the many countries that allow householder DIY wiring). Australia has the second highest levels of annual elec trical fatalities (varying between 2.5 and 4 deaths per million of population"

I laughed when it was suggested a sparky needs to check a roof cavity prior to insulation installation, next I'll need a sparky to check my house when I buy it. The reason people are naive when it comes to electricity is that they are taught to fear it and so know nothing about it. The average granny can't afford an entire rewire so ends up keeping old, dangerous wiring. There is no evidence that I've seen that can attribute electrocution to DIY wiring. Most are unfortunately tradespeople, often in non electrical trades like that poor kid in QLD installing insulation.

Cheers
Pulse

 

[House_Keeper]

From silicon chip online;




I laughed when it was suggested a sparky needs to check a roof cavity prior to insulation installation, next I'll need a sparky to check my house when I buy it. The reason people are naive when it comes to electricity is that they are taught to fear it and so know nothing about it. The average granny can't afford an entire rewire so ends up keeping old, dangerous wiring. There is no evidence that I've seen that can attribute electrocution to DIY wiring. Most are unfortunately tradespeople, often in non electrical trades like that poor kid in QLD installing insulation.

Cheers
Pulse

The bureaucrats here are experts at using fear to justify their never-ending streams of regulations. Few people people dare to question them.

We are far too docile as citizens, letting the govt tell us what to, without any evidence that the proven benefits are greater than the burden of regulation.

I'm surprised by what the bureaucrats get away with here. Nobody seems to make them accountable. They disregard civil liberties, and nobody seems to be that concerned.

Cheers,

 

[Tuppence]

From silicon chip online;




I laughed when it was suggested a sparky needs to check a roof cavity prior to insulation installation, next I'll need a sparky to check my house when I buy it. Cheers
Pulse

My partner is a plumber who is installing insulation under the federal scheme. He has a bloke working for him as a labourer. That guy got one hell of an electric shock off a roof a week or so back - though my partner had booted him in the backside, but it was a jolt. He was very lucky that it wasn't much worse.

 

[Ausprop]

I remember a sparky installed a exhaust fan in my parents house. was there for many many years when another sparky was called to fix somehting. there was something really dodgy about it...cant recall what excalty, like a live wire on the earth or somehting. anyway the 2nd sparky said it was lucky no one had been killed and accused us of wiring it up ourselves. Since then we often did as clealry the experts werent much better

 

[Rixter]

. Since then we often did as clealry the experts werent much better

Some how I dont think that justification will stand up to scrutiny in the coroners court.

 

[Ausprop]

Some how I dont think that justification will stand up to scrutiny in the coroners court.

it wouldn't but it should. Not that it would ever get there because the job was done better. The sparkies defence would be?

over regulated, over governed, over burdened. This country is clogged to the core with bureacracy

 

[Witzl]

From silicon chip online;

I laughed when it was suggested a sparky needs to check a roof cavity prior to insulation installation, next I'll need a sparky to check my house when I buy it. The reason people are naive when it comes to electricity is that they are taught to fear it and so know nothing about it. The average granny can't afford an entire rewire so ends up keeping old, dangerous wiring. There is no evidence that I've seen that can attribute electrocution to DIY wiring. Most are unfortunately tradespeople, often in non electrical trades like that poor kid in QLD installing insulation.

Cheers
Pulse

There is actually an issue of Silicon Chip about 9-12 months ago that had a "basic home electrical wiring guide", based on AS 3000 wiring standard.... of course this is legally sold in australia because the magazine is also distributed in New Zealand.

I have a copy around the house somewhere for when i do basic house wiring. I'm well versed in electrical stuff and know how to keep things safe, so how am i really hurting anyone?
I follow all the CURRENT AS 3000 wiring standards correctly (more than i can say for a LOT of sparkies).

FWIW - wiring up a light dimmer is simple. Really really simple. It cost me $50 in parts at Turks for a trailing edge dimmer module and new switch panel, and about 5 minutes effort.
I bet if i called a sparkie, it wouldve cost near on $200.

 

[House_Keeper]

Some how I dont think that justification will stand up to scrutiny in the coroners court.

Very true.

The bureaucrats like to use such scare tactics to subdue people into accepting their regulation without questioning it. It kills off any rational debate pretty quickly.

Yet, if we have one of the highest level of electrical fatalities in the world, what exactly have we gained with all this regulation?

Sorry, Rixter, I'm not having at go at you. I just get so irritated with ineffective restrictions the bureaucrats come up with. Many of them are not assessed properly. Few of them are ever independently evaluated for their effectiveness.

A lot of those regulations are needed and useful. They may set a basic standard, improve safety, or protect the consumer. However, it seems that government tend to get a little bit too eager to regulate sometimes.

It seems to me that there is a lack of balance in this process. We need a more independent assessment of those regulations, so that we don't end up stifled by over-regulation. Regulation doesn't come free. The benefits must justify the costs.

Cheers,

 

[Rixter]

Sorry, Rixter, I'm not having at go at you.

No need to be sorry to me. IMHO in this situation its better to abide by the governing safety regs than end up facing a coronal enquiry feeling sorry for yourself.

 

[attrill]

Here's a question for the sparkies out there. In the UK we had no sockets in the bathroom except a shaver socket, and the light switch had to be on a cord from the ceiling. This is the law.

Why not the same here in Australia?. Is the electricity safer here?

I only found out about some shoddy wiring when another sparkie came to do a different job six months later, but then another great Australian tradition seems to be for any tradie to tell you how your house is on it's last legs and you need so much doing, and if you give me a deposit now I can fix all this up for you etc etc.

Of course there are tradies out there who will prey on peoples fears and lack of knowledge to make a quick buck, not all of course and probably just the same as in any other walk of life.

 

[wylie]

it wouldn't but it should. Not that it would ever get there because the job was done better. The sparkies defence would be?

over regulated, over governed, over burdened. This country is clogged to the core with bureacracy

The sparkie would have NO defence, surely, but that is not the point.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

As to the over governed etc, I wonder how the families of the young men electrocuted by using metal staples in the insulation feel. I'll bet they think the regulations about only using plastic staples came into force about three months ago

It is a fine line to walk, and not an easy one, but some regulations are there for good reason and seeing as electricity can kill, I believe regulations on who can do what with electricity are there for good reason.

House two down from me had a DIY wiring job..... luckily they sold and the new buyer had it redone. It was a tragedy waiting to happen.......

 

[HiEquity]

From silicon chip online;

I laughed when it was suggested a sparky needs to check a roof cavity prior to insulation installation, next I'll need a sparky to check my house when I buy it. The reason people are naive when it comes to electricity is that they are taught to fear it and so know nothing about it. The average granny can't afford an entire rewire so ends up keeping old, dangerous wiring. There is no evidence that I've seen that can attribute electrocution to DIY wiring. Most are unfortunately tradespeople, often in non electrical trades like that poor kid in QLD installing insulation.

Cheers
Pulse

Thanks Pulse - you saved me searching for it. I'm an electrical engineer. I spent four years at university learning about electricity from the quantum level to the very large power level. I flatter myself that I know a little bit more about it than your average electrician. Yet I'm not allowed to touch the wiring in my own house... Instead I should just sit and stare at some dodgy tradesman's terrible terminations. Or pay big call outs to have a sparkie end up putting a power point too close to a basin anyway.

The international evidence has been clear for a number of years (I remember these stats from over a decade ago). The higher the level of regulation surrounding electrical safety, the more electrical accidents happen, other things being equal. European countries have very little electrical regulation, have some of the oldest buildings around and yet have a very low rate of electrical accidents compared to us. Comparing India to Australia isn't a fair comparison due to the level of poverty.

The reason for this is simple - if you're educated and permitted to fix up dodgy old wiring in your roof space then you will. If you have to pay huge $$$ so some tradesman can pay off his HSV ute to do the same thing you won't. So the dodgy wiring stays there instead and people stop looking for it in the hope it will go away by itself.

The level of training required of sparkies in the land of Oz creates a scarcity, which creates a high price, which creates a strong disincentive to get the work done that needs doing. As anyone in continental Europe can do electrical wiring if they think they can, then the supply of people is abundant and it can be done for a low price. Even if you get someone to do it for you the price is a lot cheaper as a result.

Fixing the wiring in your house safely is not rocket science (especially in the time of the RCD). Millions of people have been doing it for a long time now...

That said, I don't touch any of my own wiring because it's illegal and certainly don't advocate that anyone should do that in Australia due to the legal consequences. My argument is purely against the over-regulation that exists in this industry, along with the protection of the cosy "club" that is the electrical contractor's industry.

Another way of looking at it is that in most States of Australia, engineers don't need a licence to design a bridge or a building, or a power station or anything for that matter. Technically (legally) you don't actually need an engineering degree to do engineering work. Does that make all the bridges in Australia unsafe?

No...

 

[Rixter]

Instead I should just sit and stare at some dodgy tradesman's terrible terminations. Or pay big call outs to have a sparkie end up putting a power point too close to a basin anyway.

Why should you They (the sparkies) have to abide by the SAA wiring rules and governing authority regs. If you suspect otherwise then its up to you to bring it to their governing authorities attention for intervention.

No matter what industry there will always be a few bad apples that take stupid short cuts (to save time and/or money) and compromise themselves.

It just some industries bad practices are potentially more life threatening than others