Do you show up in ATO statistics?

[quoll]

A recent post got me thinking about just how many people have IP's and how many IP do they really have? If they are in a Trust do they show up in statistics for individuals? I'm thinking not.

We bought the first few houses in our names but then started buying in the Family Trust so the ATO would have as down as having 3 IP's.

So I would like to know what percentage of SS crew show up in the ATO stats and what percentage are flying under the radar?

Tax Statistics 2005-06 report page 13

Table 2.6 Individuals with an interest in a rental property, 2005–06 income year
Property interests No. of individuals
1--------------------1,081,067
2----------------------272,677
3-----------------------82,283
4-----------------------29,738
5-----------------------12,082
6 or more---------------12,442
Total----------------1,490,289


Cheers
Quoll

 

[steveadl]

Quoll, I had the same thought as you the other day when I saw that thread.

The reason I didn't ask the question is I thought perhaps properties owned by Family Trusts and Companies may still be included in the stats. ie. XYZ Pty Ltd. is on the title of 2 houses, so they count as 1 in the 272,677 category.

This is just a theory though.

 

[quoll]

Quoll, I had the same thought as you the other day when I saw that thread.

The reason I didn't ask the question is I thought perhaps properties owned by Family Trusts and Companies may still be included in the stats. ie. XYZ Pty Ltd. is on the title of 2 houses, so they count as 1 in the 272,677 category.

This is just a theory though.

I'm not sure if they do or don't, my initial thought was that they wouldn't as the other entity is holding them, I know the stuff in my name appears on my personal tax return, but then it also appears on the wifes, so do we get counted twice?

I think without seeing the raw data you can only guess.

But if it is calculated the same way each year then at least you can compare year to year regardless of whether or not the data is true and accurate reflection of the Aus property ownership.

cheers
quoll

 

[steveadl]

I'm not sure if they do or don't, my initial thought was that they wouldn't as the other entity is holding them, I know the stuff in my name appears on my personal tax return, but then it also appears on the wifes, so do we get counted twice?
I think without seeing the raw data you can only guess.

But if it is calculated the same way each year then at least you can compare year to year regardless of whether or not the data is true and accurate reflection of the Aus property ownership.

cheers
quoll

That's what makes me think that the trust would (or perhaps should) be counted as one person for the figures. If a husband and wife own 2 properties - would we count them as each owning 2, or an average of 1 each?

As you said, all hypothetical without more detailed figures.

 

[Lukey13]

So far I've only bought as Joint Tenants and Tenants in Common.

I'm yet to get my head around trusts and don't think they'll be worth my effort and financial costs until I've got a larger property portfolio.

 

[Peter 14.7]

All personal here.

Fascinating stat on Form 1 to 2. Proves most stop at 1.

And 5 to 6 means once you get 5 you move to 6 or more as the number goes up.

Peter

 

[buzzlightyear]

All personal here.

Fascinating stat on Form 1 to 2. Proves most stop at 1.

And 5 to 6 means once you get 5 you move to 6 or more as the number goes up.

Peter

Yes, once you get to five (5), the addiction has well and truly taken over....:

 

[quoll]

All personal here.

Fascinating stat on Form 1 to 2. Proves most stop at 1.

And 5 to 6 means once you get 5 you move to 6 or more as the number goes up.

Peter

Agree, I think regardless of how wrong or wobbly the figures are there is a definate, Most stop at 1 IP thing going on.

cheers
quoll

 

[fernfurn]

I am amazed at the massive drop from 1 to 2 properties. Is that a serviceability problem, a lack of confidence in the CG,or do they think the rent off one will support them in retirement? Or do they just not have the interest (obsession?) like us?

 

[steveadl]

Celica, it would be a number of factors, but one of the major reasons would be a lack of education/awareness on the subject. If they can get past that, then lack of motivation and fear kick in. Also, don't underestimate people's fear of debt.

A lot of people still have the thinking that once they get old, they can live off the aged pension, and a bit of super only makes them surer of that belief.

 

[quoll]

I am amazed at the massive drop from 1 to 2 properties. Is that a serviceability problem, a lack of confidence in the CG,or do they think the rent off one will support them in retirement? Or do they just not have the interest (obsession?) like us?

Heaps of reasons, could probably start a new thread or maybe there is already an old thread on this.

Anyway, the main one I've come across is people pay off there house then buy an IP and then wait to pay that off before buying another IP.

Cheers
quoll

 

[Sheryn]

So I am amazed

I am amazed at the massive drop from 1 to 2 properties. Is that a serviceability problem, a lack of confidence in the CG,or do they think the rent off one will support them in retirement? Or do they just not have the interest (obsession?) like us?

BUT also I am amazed that:
[using 300K as a baseline to estimate]
82283 individuals have mortgaged/ own $300,000 of property (guesstimate)
29,738 individuals have a mortgage/ own of 1.2 million of property (guesstimate)
12082 individuals have a mortgage/ own 1.5 million of property
12442 individuals have a mortagage/ own 1.8 million of property

Found the statistics interesting as only talking houses (I presume) what about commercial property.


Regards
Sheryn

 

[u3228133]

I'm not sure if they do or don't, my initial thought was that they wouldn't as the other entity is holding them, I know the stuff in my name appears on my personal tax return, but then it also appears on the wifes, so do we get counted twice?

I think without seeing the raw data you can only guess.

cheers
quoll

The data from the ATO statistics is for individuals that lodged a 2005-06 tax return and used the rental property schedule. So if you and your partner have three rental properties each jointly owned and lodged a schedule for each property for each person (eg six schedules), then both of you would appear in the '3' group.

This means any property holdings via other entities would not be included.

There is some more 'raw data' on the schedule info, http://www.ato.gov.au/content/downloads/00117625_2006PER16.pdf

This was the first year the data was published too.

 

[keithj]

I am amazed at the massive drop from 1 to 2 properties.

Maybe many first timers have been marketted apartments, that fail to appreciate, have high BC costs, initially break even on a c/f basis & as a result put them off a 2nd IP investment.

 

[Norwester]

Truthfully I'm a little surprised.

I always thought that people who owned one property would be in the majority, but I just didn't think that the numbers would fall away so savegly as the numbers of properties increased.

Yes, once you get to five (5), the addiction has well and truly taken over....:

Myself I'm going from 4 to 5 in about four weeks time. Not really addicted or obsessed.........but got to admit it does give you a sort of warm fuzzy feeling.....even in these uncertain times.

Be interesting to see the next years stats when they are released.

Ciao

Nor

 

[u3228133]

Truthfully I'm a little surprised.

Be interesting to see the next years stats when they are released.

Nor

more data, http://www.ato.gov.au/corporate/content.asp?doc=/content/00177078.htm

interests 2005-06 ----- 2006-07
1----------- 1,081,067 ----- 1,118,260
2----------- 272,677 ----- 281,944
3----------- 82,283 ----- 85,193
4----------- 29,738 ----- 31,227
5----------- 12,082 ----- 12,740
6 or more--- 12,442 ----- 13,348
Total ----- 1,490,289 ----- 1,542,712