Doctors and their Income

[china]

[edited by GeoffW- split off from thread Welfare vs Frugal]

Obviously the system doesn't fail for everyone. However, having grown up with lots of people who are still studying when they are in their late 20s (and no, not for something difficult like being a doctor), I just get a bit cynical when people say they are 'studying'. These days, it is a euphemism for Gen-Ys because they don't want to admit that they can't find a job or are too lazy to do so.

Most doctors have graduated from uni by age 23. If doing it as an undergrad, you finish high school at age 17 or 18 and then five or six years at a uni med school means that you are earning six figures at age 23. If you are doing it as post grad degree, then maybe at age 24/25. A medical degree is the surest way for a 23 year old to earn a six figure salary. This does include a 60-70 hour working week. Better still, this salary is guaranteed to increase every year for at least the next ten years post graduation. There are very few other professions that confer a guaranteed pathway to a pre-tax seven figure earning capability in under ten years of qualification.

 

[HotRod]

Most doctors have graduated from uni by age 23. If doing it as an undergrad, you finish high school at age 17 or 18 and then five or six years at a uni med school means that you are earning six figures at age 23. If you are doing it as post grad degree, then maybe at age 24/25. A medical degree is the surest way for a 23 year old to earn a six figure salary. This does include a 60-70 hour working week. Better still, this salary is guaranteed to increase every year for at least the next ten years post graduation. There are very few other professions that confer a guaranteed pathway to a pre-tax seven figure earning capability in under ten years of qualification.

Orly?????? Guaranteed?? Seven Figures??? 10 years?????

 

[Melbournian]

Most doctors have graduated from uni by age 23. If doing it as an undergrad, you finish high school at age 17 or 18 and then five or six years at a uni med school means that you are earning six figures at age 23. If you are doing it as post grad degree, then maybe at age 24/25. A medical degree is the surest way for a 23 year old to earn a six figure salary. This does include a 60-70 hour working week. Better still, this salary is guaranteed to increase every year for at least the next ten years post graduation. There are very few other professions that confer a guaranteed pathway to a pre-tax seven figure earning capability in under ten years of qualification.

working in the oil and gas field - would definitely be 6 figures

i have a cousin who graduated around 24 years old from a medical degree in melbourne uni. Work in the public sector doing his rounds - 10 years ago..doctors worked crazy hours and work safety around those weren't really that tight - he was earning 6 figures. unfortunately - after a late shift.. he decided to go home one day and feel asleep while driving - fatigue - hit a pole and died. Was also the only son in the family whose dad was also a doctor.

Sometimes there are other things to cherish that 6-7 figures.

 

[china]

working in the oil and gas field - would definitely be 6 figures

i have a cousin who graduated around 24 years old from a medical degree in melbourne uni. Work in the public sector doing his rounds - 10 years ago..doctors worked crazy hours and work safety around those weren't really that tight - he was earning 6 figures. unfortunately - after a late shift.. he decided to go home one day and feel asleep while driving - fatigue - hit a pole and died. Was also the only son in the family whose dad was also a doctor.

Sometimes there are other things to cherish that 6-7 figures.

Very true. There is a price for everything. My only point is that in other professions, e.g. as a 23 year old in accounting or engineering, you are not guaranteed six figure earnings even if you work 60 hours per week. This is something to consider when deciding on whether tertiary education is worthwhile if gaining wealth is a key concern. Whereas, a 23 year old medical graduate is guaranteed six figures.

 

[DaveM]

Whereas, a 23 year old medical graduate is guaranteed six figures.

ORLY?
http://www.health.qld.gov.au/medical/docs/payrates_2010.pdf

 

[china]

ORLY?
http://www.health.qld.gov.au/medical/docs/payrates_2010.pdf

Thank you for validating my posts. As you can see from your link, the starting base rate for a 23 year old intern is 63k. This is for a 38 hour week. Most interns will do an additional 20 hours of over time per week, bringing the usual pay to six figures per annum. You can also see pay increases very year without fail. Most don't reach the top pay scale as they have left for private practice where seven figures are not uncommon.

 

[DaveM]

A six figure salarary made up of tonnes of overtime is not exactly an apples to apples comparison against other industries and professions.

 

[Shaneelastic]

Mr China, are you a doctor .?

 

[china]

A six figure salarary made up of tonnes of overtime is not exactly an apples to apples comparison against other industries and professions.

Sure, I agree. Some posts have been discussing the value of tertiary education. Outside of a medical degree, I don't think you will find many professions where close to 100% first year new graduates often age 23, will earn six figures. We are also talking close to 100% employment for new grads. Although there are many pathways to wealth I don't think that there is a better guaranteed pathway to wealth or a more consistent pathway than undertaking a medical degree.

 

[Shaneelastic]

Mr China, are you a doctor .?

Any chance to answer the question Mr China

 

[china]

No chance.

 

[DaveM]

Although there are many pathways to wealth I don't think that there is a better guaranteed pathway to wealth or a more consistent pathway than undertaking a medical degree.

I dont really disagree with that. However for the 99.8% of students who do not attain a high enough ATAR/TER/whatever its called these days to get into a medicine degree, its not really a viable path to wealth or high earning capacity, so the suggestion that doing a medical degree is the best option is utterly moot.

 

[china]

I dont really disagree with that. However for the 99.8% of students who do not attain a high enough ATAR/TER/whatever its called these days to get into a medicine degree, its not really a viable path to wealth or high earning capacity, so the suggestion that doing a medical degree is the best option is utterly moot.

Thats incorrect.

Until ten years ago, you required a high TER/ATAR or whatever its called these days.

Now the entry into medicine is far more simple. These days, undergrad entry is based on an IQ test and an interview, not academic performance. Postgrad entry is also based on an IQ test and interview. Previous academic performance is irrelevant. These days, a fair few first year doctors / medical graduates were previously plumber apprentices, tradies, policemen and labourers.

There are now about 20 medical schools in Australia compared to about six schools ten years ago. They are all competing for students.

Therefore, it has never been easier to get into medicine and should be considered by all teenagers considering a very good pathway to wealth. The current opportunity to get into the ivory tower / gold mine won't last forever.

 

[cimbom]

Gawd, and here was me thinking you lived in a shoebox in the middle of the road .

Sounds much like my own, and the upbringing of 75% of the people I knew growing up (most worked on small farms, manufacturing, retail or did office work - hardly high paying).

Why didn't anyone tell us we were poor .

Sounds like you had more difficulty than most coming to terms with the real world where people work that bit harder for a bit more.

Even living in Sydney, I'm still baffled that you HAD to work close to a full time hours (even at minimum wage) and had to rely on Austudy as well to be able to live, and that you could not have continued to study without the Austudy.

Perhaps the biggest differences in opinion here are more to do with attitude and perception, rather than income.

I'm not speaking on behalf of anyone here but some people do need to contribute financially to their family/household as well as paying for their own direct living and study costs.

 

[onetwothreefour]

I'm lost..I thought this tread was about welfare vs frugal....not tertiary education or medical profession...

 

[geoffw]

I'm lost..I thought this tread was about welfare vs frugal....not tertiary education or medical profession...

This is China. The solution to every financial problem is to get a medical degree.

However he confuses wealth with income.

Wealth comes about by using what income one gets wisely. For some this involves frugality. For many here it comes about by investing well. Many people in here who have a mere five figure income have become wealthy.

Income however is different. If one's expenses exceed one's income, wealth will never result, no matter how much one earns.

China has a good income, and his expenses come in much less than his income. He is accumulating wealth in a safe straightforward way. However many people on a high income cannot do this. They need expensive houses, cars and other doodads. Many will never be wealthy.

 

[wylie]

Thats incorrect.

Until ten years ago, you required a high TER/ATAR or whatever its called these days.

Now the entry into medicine is far more simple. These days, undergrad entry is based on an IQ test and an interview, not academic performance. Postgrad entry is also based on an IQ test and interview. Previous academic performance is irrelevant. These days, a fair few first year doctors / medical graduates were previously plumber apprentices, tradies, policemen and labourers.

There are now about 20 medical schools in Australia compared to about six schools ten years ago. They are all competing for students.

Therefore, it has never been easier to get into medicine and should be considered by all teenagers considering a very good pathway to wealth. The current opportunity to get into the ivory tower / gold mine won't last forever.

I feel sure that this is not so (but not enough to bet my left knack on it... if I had one ).

Medical specialist friend was telling me his son was sweating on getting a high enough OP (had to be OP1) but on top of getting an OP1 there was something about being in the top portion of that score to get straight into medicine without doing another degree first (science?).

Without that direct entry into medicine, I gathered most doctors start off with a science degree, and then do the medical degree. I recall them telling me it was only a very select few who go directly to medicine. This conversation took place three years ago, so I may have it a bit fuzzy, but I certainly don't think too many plumbers or accountants are becoming doctors and I know it is a difficult course.

But back on topic...

 

[Ideo]

Here are the current usyd requirements for medicine

http://sydney.edu.au/medicine/future-students/medical-program/domestic/admissions.php#gpa

 

[china]

This is China. The solution to every financial problem is to get a medical degree.

However he confuses wealth with income.

Wealth comes about by using what income one gets wisely. For some this involves frugality. For many here it comes about by investing well. Many people in here who have a mere five figure income have become wealthy.

Income however is different. If one's expenses exceed one's income, wealth will never result, no matter how much one earns.

China has a good income, and his expenses come in much less than his income. He is accumulating wealth in a safe straightforward way. However many people on a high income cannot do this. They need expensive houses, cars and other doodads. Many will never be wealthy.

You have summed up my position / views very well. Frugality and wise investment are the keys to wealth. Now that I have mastered frugality, I need to learn investment. Once I can invest expertly, I can forget frugality.

In relationship to this thread, some of the wealthiest people I know also max out on their government welfare. On Sydney's north shore, there are certainly many pensioners living in mansions and driving mercs. These are probably the most skilled investors / wealth accumulators around.

 

[DaveM]

Here are the current usyd requirements for medicine

http://sydney.edu.au/medicine/future-students/medical-program/domestic/admissions.php#gpa

A 3 year bachelors degree is required... wonder what degree all those labourers and plumbers apprentices were doing to get in...