dodgy builder - is this house doomed?

[poppy]

These photos are of my 6 year old IP. It's interstate so I haven't seen it much.

Up until a few days ago the only issues that have been reported to me have been thin cracks in gyprock/cornice that didn't seem to be anything abnormal. Only other major issue I've had was with the garage door being almost impossible to open seemingly due to buckling (I got this fixed - thought the tenant had run the car into it and didn't want to own up - now it's obvious why the buckling occurred).

Here are some of the photos of my IP now. There are many more but there is a limit of 5 photos. Last inspection would have been around 6 months ago. There was nothing significant noted on inspection.

I have a new PM who visited the property for the first time recently. She immediately called with serious concerns.

Builder hasn't been to inspect yet (they have agreed to inspect at least based on the photos). The house is just within structural warranty period.

The builder is very difficult to deal with even with minor stuff. I am fully expecting them to say one of the following; a) This isn't a structural problem, it's "normal" or "cosmetic" b) it's structural but it's somehow my fault or c) just refuse to fix it for no apparent reason.

Note on one of these photos the downpipe no longer even goes into the drain it is pouring into the huge gap between the house and concrete. Surely this cannot be normal settling/movement!

I didn't bother including any pics of internal cracks as there isn't anything really alarming or unusual about them, just a lot more than you'd usually find in a 6 year old house.

Are these problems not as scary as they look? Or is this house screwed?

Any advice would be appreciated. Note: I will OBVIOUSLY seek the opinion of a suitably qualified person, please don't just tell me to do that, it isn't helpful - advice about WHO would be the best type of tradesperson to contact would be more than welcome though.

 

[Scott No Mates]

There seems to be a fair bit of movement with the veranda slabs - a bit too much settlement for my liking.

As for the photo of the post, timber shrinkage isn't unusual - just a bit of filler & a repaint (house is probably due for one at 7 years anyway).

Photo 5 - that's what happens when the reo is short from the corner by more than the required amount.

It may pay to get a building inspector to check the place out and then contacting the builder to rectify the structural defects before the structural warranties run out.

 

[poppy]

There seems to be a fair bit of movement with the veranda slabs - a bit too much settlement for my liking.

As for the photo of the post, timber shrinkage isn't unusual - just a bit of filler & a repaint (house is probably due for one at 7 years anyway).

Photo 5 - that's what happens when the reo is short from the corner by more than the required amount.

It may pay to get a building inspector to check the place out and then contacting the builder to rectify the structural defects before the structural warranties run out.

Thanks for your reply Scott. The post timber wouldn't concern me that much except for the fact that all the posts are badly cracked combined with the concrete cracking significantly at the base of each post. The posts are on the porch at the front of the house, this work and the concrete there was done by the builder. The other photos are of the back veranda, this work was done after handover. (Edit: the front porch and back veranda have developed similar huge gaps between concrete and house and front downpipe looks likely to come away from drain in the future too)

Could you please explain further what you mean RE photo 5? Does this mean the concreter has done a dodgy job?

Is it seriously normal to have so much movement that your downpipes no longer drain into the drain? Couldn't this cause even more issues due to the moisture pooling around the house? Is the builder likely to say this problem isn't structural or blame it on the concreter who did the concrete for the back veranda? Many thanks for your time

 

[Scott No Mates]

If the downpipes no longer reach the drain, the movement is excessive. This may lead to scouring of the soil under the slab and further movement (it may undermine the slab).

The cracked slab where the pit is located, if the slab hadn't moved so much, there wouldn't be an issue but as the pit is located very close to the corner, there is insufficient room to have the reo with adequate cover running around the back of the pit.

The concrete infront of the posts shouldn't have cracked off.

I would recommend that you get an inspection done and then address the issues with the builder.

 

[poppy]

thanks scott that is helpful.

 

[AlmostBob]

seen something a bit like this before
building greg normans fantastic money pit estate/golf course
the first building moved, so they pushed it back into place with a dozer
very poor subsoil filled with wrecked building rubble
not a good place

 

[veseli]

There are major structural problems and defects in every photo, you should go to Fair Trading straight away and put a claim against the builder, otherwise if 7 yr warranty passes you cant do anything to him.

That concrete is too high and there should be at least 50mm between finished concrete slab and weep holes.

 

[mattnz]

I wouldn't be trying to deal with the builder myself. Get a professional post-build inspector to give you their opinion of what is wrong and pay them to engage the builder. They will fully understand your rights and the appropriate process to follow for recourse, to guide you.

 

[poppy]

There are major structural problems and defects in every photo, you should go to Fair Trading straight away and put a claim against the builder, otherwise if 7 yr warranty passes you cant do anything to him.

That concrete is too high and there should be at least 50mm between finished concrete slab and weep holes.

Thanks for your reply. I have notified the builder of the problems via email and have asked for a written acknowledgement of this.

I am going to get independent advice from a building inspector and will certainly make official complaints if the builder does not comply with what the building inspector has advised me. I had thought though that I wouldn't have to lodge an official complaint prior to the warranty expiry in order to make a claim? Isn't it sufficient to have concrete proof that you have advised them of a significant structural defect prior to warranty expiry?

Another question that has been concerning me. What liability does a builder have regarding work that; a) has not been done by the builder but has been damaged or destroyed as a result of the structural defects or the work done to rectify the structural defects and b) non-structural defects that occurred due to the structural defect eg a need to replaster and repaint. And would the builder have any liability for any damages such as lost rent due to an uninhabitable house? I feel like I need to seek legal advice too.

 

[Tools]

You hardly have a house that is uninhabitable. All you have is some paving that has sunk. Have you performed any maintenance at all on the property since it was built?
Tools

 

[Corey Batt]

Curious to know what State this is in?

 

[poppy]

You hardly have a house that is uninhabitable. All you have is some paving that has sunk. Have you performed any maintenance at all on the property since it was built?
Tools

Tools, you misunderstand me. Of course the house is habitable at this time. What I am concerned about is if major works are required to rectify the structural issues, that results in very serious inconvenience to a tenant such that we are unable to lease the property or the tenant leaves and/or tenant legitimately asks for compensation or reduced rent due to the works being carried out by the builder.

Um... I do not just have some paving that has sunk. There is major movement and major cracking of at least several centimetres in width. It is clear that there is a potentially serious structural problem!

As to "have you performed any maintenance on the property since it was built", whenever my property manager notes a potential issue on their inspection or the tenant reports a problem I always have it checked out and/or fixed by a professional as needed. Regardless, I fail to see how my lack of maintenance could have caused a slab to move so much that a downpipe no longer connects to the drain at all and instead drains into the large gap of about 5cm inbetween the house and the driveway.

 

[poppy]

Curious to know what State this is in?

Property is in VIC (not the same state I live in)

 

[AlmostBob]

property is in a state of disprepair sic em Rex

 

[daniel ngo]

Another question that has been concerning me.

What liability does a builder have regarding work that;

a) has not been done by the builder but has been damaged or destroyed as a result of the structural defects or the work done to rectify the structural defects and

b) non-structural defects that occurred due to the structural defect eg a need to replaster and repaint. And would the builder have any liability for any damages such as lost rent due to an uninhabitable house? I feel like I need to seek legal advice too.

BCA's PERFORMANCE REQUIREMENT

P2.1 Structural stability and resistance to actions
(a) A building or structure, to the degree necessary, must—
(i) remain stable and not collapse; an
(ii) prevent progressive collapse; and
(iii) minimise local damage and loss of amenity through excessive deformation, vibration or degradation; and (iv) avoid causing damage to other properties;

by resisting the actions to which it may reasonably be subjected.

(b) The actions to be considered to satisfy (a) include but are not limited to—
(i) permanent actions (dead loads); and
(ii) imposed actions (live loads arising from occupancy and use); and
(iii) wind action; and
(iv) earthquake action; and
(v) snow action; and
(vi) liquid pressure action; and
(vii) ground water action; and
(viii) rainwater action (including ponding action); and
(ix) earth pressure action; and
(x) differential movement; and
(xi) time dependent effects (including creep and shrinkage); and
(xii) thermal effects; and
(xiii) ground movement caused by—
(A) swelling, shrinkage or freezing of the subsoil; and
(B) landslip or subsidence; and
(C) siteworks associated with the building or structure; and
(xiv) construction activity actions; and
(xv) termite actions.
(c) The structural resistance of materials and forms of construction must be determined using five percentile characteristic material properties with appropriate allowance for—
(i) known construction activities; and
(ii) type of material; and
(iii) characteristics of the site; and
(iv) the degree of accuracy inherent in the methods used to assess the structural behaviour; and
(v) action effects arising from the differential settlement of foundations, and from restrained dimensional changes due to temperature, moisture, shrinkage, creep and similar effects.

Seem like he liable for a. & b. as far as fixing the defect / damage. I wouldn't pursue lost rent thought.

Good Luck

 

[AlmostBob]

Thanks for your reply. I have notified the builder of the problems via email and have asked for a written acknowledgement of this.

email may not be considered 'in writing' for legal purposes, there is no proof of delivery to a responsible person,
if there is no reply, from the builder's perspective it was never sent
registered mail, old school, has its function, where the a_hole is behaving like an a_hole

 

[liamaust]

Having an inspection completed and the inspector to discuss with developer before warranty runs out will help your legal case. Just helps with getting all the documentation in place.

 

[poppy]

Oh CRAP. Seems I am affected by a problem which has occurred in many many homes in Melbourne's west. I am totally screwed with this property.

http://somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76132&referrerid=0

I have found many other links about this including an "a current affair" video and no one has found any resolution even after years of legal battles

Seems like builders are mainly trying to blame the home owner and/or extreme weather, particularly if the home owner hasn't installed concrete paths around the entire perimeter of the home. I have concrete around most of the house but some areas of gravel (no gardens or watering systems against side of house though). As the down pipes have been draining into the gap between the side of the house and the concrete due to severe movement the builder will no doubt blame us for not reporting the problem sooner. I do have copies of inspection reports and detailed condition reports showing nothing significant noted by either tenant or property manager but I doubt it will matter much to the builder.

 

[Pa1nter]

I have seen this before in quite a few houses,

My first question is were there waffle pods used under the slab at construction?
If they were, it is probably caused by the house moving (floating)on the waffles and the cement paths/driveways etc do not have waffle pod so they are solid therefore there are movements between the two.

The patio post breaking out is the same(Connected to the house),floating house,solid foundation.



http://www.wafflepodpeople.com.au/

 

[poppy]

I have seen this before in quite a few houses,

My first question is were there waffle pods used under the slab at construction?
If they were, it is probably caused by the house moving (floating)on the waffles and the cement paths/driveways etc do not have waffle pod so they are solid therefore there are movements between the two.

The patio post breaking out is the same(Connected to the house),floating house,solid foundation.



http://www.wafflepodpeople.com.au/

Thanks for your reply Pa1nter. I have all the original documentation from the builder but cannot find anything that indicates whether or not the house had a "waffle pod". If the house was built with such a thing, that was likely to cause not only severe cracking of surrounding concrete/paths but also to cause movement of downpipes such that they no longer drained into storm water but drained directly into the ground next to the house, why did the builder not only install concrete right up to the edge of the house and also surrounding the downpipes but also not tell me not to do any further concreting next to the house? Thanks