Dominque Grubisa's Vesty trust System

Has anyone done Dominque Grubisa's buying distressed property course or the property protection set up? Just like to hear some feedback especially on the property protection set up. I'm more interested in the vesty trust system and to see if anyone has had it and found it come unstuck at sometime?
Thanks
 
i'm assuming the OP means Vestey. From memory the Vesteys were an extremely wealthy British family that minimised their potential tax obligations through the use of a complex series of trusts which were domiciled outside Britain.
 
So a trust that has an equiable interest in a property via a caveat on the title behind a 1st mortgage.

Makes it look to hard for creditors to gain anything from sueing?

Cheers
 
Has anyone done Dominque Grubisa's buying distressed property course or the property protection set up? Just like to hear some feedback especially on the property protection set up. I'm more interested in the vesty trust system and to see if anyone has had it and found it come unstuck at sometime?
Thanks

Besides a lot of jokes there has been a number of threads on Dominique Grubisa on here which you should be able to surface using the Search thread function.
I don't believe there is anyone on here that has used her system though.
 
Any trust could obtain an equitable interest in a property and lodge a caveat or second mortgage. How does 'vestey' come into it I wonder? What is this 'vestyness'?
 
I did do a search and didn't find this topic raised but second time I found a topic on trust structure.

I believe it was called Vestey cause it was first designed by the brother early on. From what I understand it is setting up another trust company which is separate from everything else you own but you don't have ownership of the trust only the financial control of the trust (I'm not sure who has ownership). The trust then puts a second mortgage (Caveat) on all properties that removes any equity out of the property and puts it into the trust. That way anyone who attempts to sue has third go for trying access any equity in the properties and will be left with nothing after the first two organisations take back their equity.
 
Doesn't sound any different to what a discretionary trust with corporate trustee can do, where the property is outside the trust and trust is used as a finance trust with a loan agreement and 1st and 2nd mortgages etc and a bucket co. If you want to go further! But end result asset protection and ability to distribute income within the trust and co. Each year.
 
Many people have tried to make it sound like their particular trust has some sort of "magic" (No slight on the quality publication Trust Magic intended !!)
- Bloodline trust that are meant to safeguard assets - Giving enhanced asset protection etc. They may act to give some capital protection but may also be capable of attack by Family Court too.
- Property Investment Trust (TM)...It was sold as a way to access the NSW land tax threshold. It didnt. It wasnt a fixed trust. The ATO also thought it was a hybrid trust and had other issues.
- A well know deed provider whose NSW fixed unit trust...wasnt.

Walk away from trademarked / 'magic' trust deeds is my view. Like tax schemes they may promise something that isnt deliverable when you need to rely on it.

I would be VERY wary of anyone marketing any specialised "new" form of trust. Its not like after 300 years of trust law (common law) someone woke up and suddenly found something tens of thousands of other lawyers over recent modern history overlooked .. Of course they will say they wont share their secret and its proven. All the halmarks of a scheme. I say if its something that works then we might all recommend it and buy it. So post it for public, professional & legal peer review.

Registering a mortgage is one thing. Proving a debt may be the problem. Otherwise would I just put a mortgage over my own home. Or get a mate to do it.

The originating trust appears to originate with a person who claims on various websites to be many things incl a entrepreneur, wealth creation specialist, a barrister (although I cant determine which Bar and no chambers are noted), a real estate specialist, debt adviser (!!) , speaker....In ASICs words a spruiker perhaps? One qualification not noted was taxation adviser. I cant determine that.

How much does this cost ?
 
I did do a search and didn't find this topic raised but second time I found a topic on trust structure.

I believe it was called Vestey cause it was first designed by the brother early on. From what I understand it is setting up another trust company which is separate from everything else you own but you don't have ownership of the trust only the financial control of the trust (I'm not sure who has ownership). The trust then puts a second mortgage (Caveat) on all properties that removes any equity out of the property and puts it into the trust. That way anyone who attempts to sue has third go for trying access any equity in the properties and will be left with nothing after the first two organisations take back their equity.

Why not a sub-trust and avoid all the BS ? First I question if the above is a loan or other obligation which satisfies the need for security. No loan, no debt.

Second, if a trust is so purposeful in protection of equity and there is a vesting to a sub trust or a new trust etc I would imagine a serious tax concern could arise. Appreciate thoughts by others esp those with both legal and tax qualifications on this...Could ITAA36 s102CA operate ?? This section deals with a transfer of a right to receive income from property. Income can be either ordinary income by concepts (rent) or future capital gains. I would imagine that the ATO might consider such a trust a hyrid form of trust that changes trust entitlements which may harm interest deductions.
 
Hi Paul

I don't see any vesting to a sub-trust in this strategy. Trust A would just be taking a mortgage over property owned by another party - which could be an individual or the trustee of Trust B.

There are not rights to income. Just a right to possesion of the property if the loan agreement and terms of the mortgage are not met. This right would be behind the first mortgage holder. I don't think s102CA would apply initially. It might if the mortgagor takes possession and it is a non-resident trust????

And, anyone entering into such a scheme should consider the relevant provisisons in:
Conveyancing act
Bankruptcy act
corporations act
etc

As merely lodging a mortgage over a related party property will have little substance unless it is done for a commercial reason. A mortgage is a form of security for something - such as borrowing money. So if money is borrowed where has the money gone - tracing would apply.
 
Any trust could obtain an equitable interest in a property and lodge a caveat or second mortgage. How does 'vestey' come into it I wonder? What is this 'vestyness'?

Lord Vestey ;)

Ted Egan "Gurindji Blues" said:
Poor bugger blackfeller; Gurindji
Long time work no wages, we,
Work for the good old Lord Vestey
Little bit flour; sugar and tea
For the Gurindji, from Lord Vestey
Oh poor bugger me.
 
Why can't a beneficiary of a family trust lodge a caveat for a future benefit, just as they can as a beneficiary under a will.

And where would the caveat stand in relation to an existing mortgage, mortgagee's legal costs, agents fees in a mortgagee sale.
 
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