Dual property scenario

[streetie]

Say your planning on creating a dual occupancy property through either a granny flat or splitting a two storey house into 2 units or by building under a queenslander etc..
And for whatever reason it is not legal by the local council to have it as a dual occupancy due to insufficient height on lower level, not fire rated, not zoned etc..

But the place is still set up for 2 occupancies. 2 kitchens , 2 bathrooms and both are fully self contained.

Could you not then just rent it out at higher price than what you would get if it was still a single property legally to just one set of tenants , even though you know the tenants may sub let the other occupancy out themselves?

If sh$t were to hit the fan, regarding a fire causing a death or any other situation like that , that could occur.
Who would be liable to take the wrap? The landlord who rented it out as a single occupancy or the tenant who illegally turned it into a dual occupancy?

 

[marg4000]

If you know the tenants are subletting then you are implying consent, particularly as this would be fairly obvious when inspecting (unlikely that one family would completely move out).

Your post implies you are deliberately going down this path even though you know it contravenes council and fire laws.

This would put you at risk as you can't claim you didn't know it was going on, particularly as you did the fit out and are charging a higher rent than a single-tenancy would warrant.

If you wish to do a dual occupancy, why not do it properly and find a suitable property and comply with the council and fire laws?
Marg

 

[Tulamalula]

I would never be happy with a tenant sub-letting, you never know who they're going to let in.

 

[mikezen]

This is what I'm going to do w A high set i got, rent the top out seperatly from the bottom and just self manage
I thought about explaining to people that its a room by room basis but only max 1 couple on top and bottom and have a set price like 270 top and 240 bottom, this would be easily achievable where it is
Also I'd put in solar to keep the cost down and just wear the water bill
If anything happened I'd just say I was living there bla bla bla
I would keep a room there for myself but explain to the tenants that I'd never be there, I'd put up pictures of me on the wall and toilet door etc so if there was a investigation I would of covered my bases as it would look like I lived there. Also with my portraits strewn across the property walls tenants would think twice before causing any destruction or menace of any kind, as everywhere they would turn they would see me watching down on them, pretty smart plan i thought of

 

[beachgurl]

I went to an open yesterday where the house was O/O and the garage was tenanted. I asked the agent about dual tenancy and he recommended I rent as one property and the tenant can sublet. I walked away from that one.

 

[streetie]

Yeah I definitely would do everything in my power to make it legal. Wasn't planning on doing anything illegal because it was cheaper or less work.

Just wanted to know more the legal side of things.

Sometimes you can find places that have already been turned into a dual property but they haven't gotten council approval. So I'm wondering Are these places to stay steer clear of or maybe they are a gold mine if you spend a little money to get them up to regulation.?

Also, just because you have it set it up as a dual occupancy doesn't mean that you know the tenants will sub let.
Dual occupancies would also be ideal for families that have a grown up kid that won't move out or in-laws they have to take care of.

 

[thatbum]

Sometimes you can find places that have already been turned into a dual property but they haven't gotten council approval. So I'm wondering Are these places to stay steer clear of or maybe they are a gold mine if you spend a little money to get them up to regulation.?

Well that's a different question from your original post. But to answer it, its generally either very hard or practically impossible to find properties like this.

The reality is that if it was easy to get council approval, the original owner probably would have done it at the time.

Typically its much easier to just find a house with granny flat potential and put it on yourself. At least you know its complying.

 

[vaughan]

Sometimes you can find places that have already been turned into a dual property but they haven't gotten council approval...

... its generally either very hard or practically impossible to find properties like this...

Umina Beach and Woy Woy are full of unapproved dual occs.

 

[vaughan]

This is what I'm going to do w A high set i got, rent the top out seperatly from the bottom and just self manage
I thought about explaining to people that its a room by room basis but only max 1 couple on top and bottom and have a set price like 270 top and 240 bottom, this would be easily achievable where it is
Also I'd put in solar to keep the cost down and just wear the water bill
If anything happened I'd just say I was living there bla bla bla
I would keep a room there for myself but explain to the tenants that I'd never be there, I'd put up pictures of me on the wall and toilet door etc so if there was a investigation I would of covered my bases as it would look like I lived there. Also with my portraits strewn across the property walls tenants would think twice before causing any destruction or menace of any kind, as everywhere they would turn they would see me watching down on them, pretty smart plan i thought of

I must assume that this is humour. It makes no sense as anything else.

 

[Tulamalula]

are you trying to get out of paying stamp duty by claiming the purchase as place of residence and not an IP?

 

[travelbug]

This is what I'm going to do w A high set i got, rent the top out seperatly from the bottom and just self manage
I thought about explaining to people that its a room by room basis but only max 1 couple on top and bottom and have a set price like 270 top and 240 bottom, this would be easily achievable where it is
Also I'd put in solar to keep the cost down and just wear the water bill
If anything happened I'd just say I was living there bla bla bla
I would keep a room there for myself but explain to the tenants that I'd never be there, I'd put up pictures of me on the wall and toilet door etc so if there was a investigation I would of covered my bases as it would look like I lived there. Also with my portraits strewn across the property walls tenants would think twice before causing any destruction or menace of any kind, as everywhere they would turn they would see me watching down on them, pretty smart plan i thought of

haha. I wish I knew it was that easy. I might put some photos of myself in all my IP's and say I live there. And all this time I've been paying tax on rent. Silly me.

Streetie don't think it's as simple as just getting council approval. MANY are not able to be approved. That's why they aren't. There's not much you can do about the height being too low, a garage that doesn't have a waterproof membrane on the floor etc. Also if you go to council and it's illegal they can make you rip it out. Then you have a basic house (that I assume you've paid more for becaue of the extra flat).
I looked at one that had an illegal flat under. The owner advertised the flat on gumtree and council saw it and thought "hey that looks illegal" (it had low height) so they went to the open home. The owner had to rip out the kitchen.
Buyer beware.

 

[vaughan]

are you trying to get out of paying stamp duty by claiming the purchase as place of residence and not an IP?

Stamp duty is still payable on PPoRs. However PPoRs do not get capital gains taxed after sale. Trouble is, you can only have one PPoR.