Employment / Development / Lending and Structure Help

Hi guys,

This is probably going to be quite long, so I apologise if its massive, but i'll try to give you all as much information of my situation as possible so that any advice which you have for me is as relevant as possible.

My situation is that I'm currently employed full-time as a carpenter for a small construction company. I'm on $26/hr. I take home around $900/wk. I've been with this company since mid-2009.

I have 4 investment properties solely in my name.
2x 3 bed 1 bath on 1000m2 in Inglewood Qld
1x 4 bed 1 bath on 2000m2 in Inglewood Qld
1x 550m2 vacant block on Russel Island

2 Properties in Joint Names with a mate of mine.
1x 4 bed 1 bath on 405m2 in Coorparoo (Currently my PPOR)
1x 3 bed 1 bath on 870m2 LMR in Zillmere (planning to build 5x 3bed, 2.5 bath townhouses in approx. 18months-2years)

We've just recently purchased Zillmere, and this is negatively geared by almost $400/wk. I put in $200 and so does my mate.

As you can see, my wage is extremely low, my boss has offered me a pay rise, but I cant imagine that it'll be more than $60 or so per week and I really feel like I need to start making a lot more money.

My employment options are:
*Take the pay rise and keep the full-time position
*Start subcontracting for my current boss, in the hope I can make more money. (I would hope to gross $1600-2000, by doing a lot more hours)
*My mate works in the mines in Port Headland and hes confident he could get me a job if i submitted an application along with my resume. (net weekly wage approx. $2500)

I kind of feel like my best option is the mining company. However I do like my current employer, and in the future i would like to set up a similar construction company to his, and atm I'm getting really good experience which will make the transition into me having my own construction company that much easier.

My other concern is that in approx. 1.5 - 2 years we will be trying to borrow in excess of $1m to do the townhouse build. So i have plenty of questions for borrowers about how exactly we need to position ourselves leading up to the application process for this loan. (this is probably 1 of my biggest concerns). I'm happy to sell everything else i own in order to come up with a cash deposit for the townhouse loan.

We paid $500k for the Zillmere property, and we borrowed $530k. (Cross collateralised with the Coorparoo house which we own together also)

Questions in relation to borrowing for the townhouse build
1. How much deposit do you think we will need?
2. Do the council fees, drawings, engineering etc need to be paid from cash or is there a way that we can include this into our borrowed money?
3. With this type of loan, is my employment situation just as important as if i were doing a standard home loan? (If i was working as a sub-contractor would that pretty much write off any chances of us getting the loan?)

As for the development side of things
The land has cost us approx. $540,000.
We've talked to a designer who thinks we can get 5 x 3bedx2.5 bath townhouses approx. 125-130m2 each. I would say current market value for something like these is around $420k, but we are hoping for a small amount of Capital Growth over the next 2years.
I understand council charges around 26k per additional dwelling which will add up to around $100k. What other significant council charges will there be? We're hoping to get the designs passed through councils risksmart application process.

Does anyone that's done something similar know rough cost of well everything, eg. designer, plans, council fees, engineers plans, build cost, Holding cost, marketing costs, etc etc etc...

We have obviously run some reasonably loose numbers which seem to stake up reasonably well for us. But yeah, i'll be very keen to hear to any feedback either negative or positive, as to your thoughts about the whole project, also any advice which may even seem blatantly obvious.

Ah, and yes, i almost forgot, Matt and I also need to set up some type of structure, whether it be a trust or company. So advice on this will be helpful also...

Clearly this is our first development so any advice would be wonderful.

Many thanks,
Clint.
 
Well the time to do the structure was when you bought the property, not after as it is too late (unless you want to pay stamp duty again).

As for lending, it really is too hard to work out as too many variables. Re the townhouse development it would be a commercial loan since you are going for 5 units. Commercial loans don't need 'income' per se as long as you can show that you are pre-selling enough units to cover the debt. However, you do need loads more equity which you may/may not have. Which bank holds the securities over the development site?
 
NAB Holds the Debt across all the properties. And are you saying that now, we just do the development as 2 individuals and it is what it is? My knowledge of trust / company structure is extremely limited.

Regards,
Clint.
 
Sorry as for equity. The 2 properties we own together are borrowed to just over 90%. I'm hoping to sell everything i own on my own and come up with between $100- $150k, and Matt would need to match that amount.

Best case scenario we could come up with approx. $300k within 18months.

Regards,
Clint.
 
Your structure is less than ideal in terms of asset protection (none!) and in terms of serviceability.

You have cross collateralised properties which is additionalaly bad..

For your development you could generally borrow 80% of land and fixed contract price.
 
Your structure is less than ideal in terms of asset protection (none!) and in terms of serviceability.

You have cross collateralised properties which is additionalaly bad..

For your development you could generally borrow 80% of land and fixed contract price.

Are you saying that if a builders fixed price contract was $1.1m
And we paid $500k for the land. That we could borrow 80% of $1.6m OR $1.28m. Minus the $530k we already owe on the land and our maximum borrow is $750,000?

Also, i understand our structure is less than ideal in terms of asset protection, but i don't understand how a different structure would make it more serviceable?

Regards,
Clint.
 
NAB Holds the Debt across all the properties. And are you saying that now, we just do the development as 2 individuals and it is what it is? My knowledge of trust / company structure is extremely limited.

Regards,
Clint.

I see speed humps ahead.

Suggest you have a chat with a broker yesterday to discuss the various options.
Being reliant just on the one lender is a risk you can exclude, because development has enough risks already!


Ta

Rolf
 
Are you saying that if a builders fixed price contract was $1.1m
And we paid $500k for the land. That we could borrow 80% of $1.6m OR $1.28m. Minus the $530k we already owe on the land and our maximum borrow is $750,000?

Also, i understand our structure is less than ideal in terms of asset protection, but i don't understand how a different structure would make it more serviceable?

Regards,
Clint.

Land $500k build $1.1mi = $1.6mil x 80% less existing loan for land

Now you have properties jointly. Each jointly and severally liable. If you had separate ownership each of you individually could borrow more because you would have less debt.

This may mean, ddepending, one of you could take on the loan for the development. This would cut the risk in half. If the build fails only one of you would lose your assets.

Also generally not a good idea to do a development in a personal name because of contractual issues.
 
I see speed humps ahead.

Suggest you have a chat with a broker yesterday to discuss the various options.
Being reliant just on the one lender is a risk you can exclude, because development has enough risks already!


Ta

Rolf

Hey Rolf,

Do you work out of Brisbane very often? Or do you have someone in Brisbane that you would recommend i make an appointment with?


Clint.
 
Land $500k build $1.1mi = $1.6mil x 80% less existing loan for land

Now you have properties jointly. Each jointly and severally liable. If you had separate ownership each of you individually could borrow more because you would have less debt.

This may mean, ddepending, one of you could take on the loan for the development. This would cut the risk in half. If the build fails only one of you would lose your assets.

Also generally not a good idea to do a development in a personal name because of contractual issues.

Thanks heaps Terry. Yeah well I'm glad i put the thread up. Definitly should've put up something about 3 or 4 months ago.

Is the feeling, that we should take a couple steps back, put aside our our 18-24 month timeframe, set up some structure and then re-purchase and pay stamp duty again on the development site? I imagine it might be easiest to just get rid of the Coorparoo property all together to reduce debt and improve borrowing capacity?

Clint.
 
Your limit will probably be equity first up. Then will be serviceability.

Would you have a rough guess as to the amount of cash / equity we may need to make it happen?

And is the 80% borrow of Fixed Contract Price + Land Value the most commonly used, and best borrowing formula for this type of loan?

Many thanks,
Clint.
 
Yes 80% formula that Terry quoted is a good guide for what you will need - particularly for a commercial loan like this where the LVR is lower than your standard resi one.
 
Thanks heaps Terry. Yeah well I'm glad i put the thread up. Definitly should've put up something about 3 or 4 months ago.

Is the feeling, that we should take a couple steps back, put aside our our 18-24 month timeframe, set up some structure and then re-purchase and pay stamp duty again on the development site? I imagine it might be easiest to just get rid of the Coorparoo property all together to reduce debt and improve borrowing capacity?

Clint.

Even if you were to set up a company/trust to purchase the new property a personal guarantee will be required. Whoever gives the guarantee wil have at risk all of their existing personal assets. At least limiting the personal guarantee to one of you will reduce the risk of the other losing their assets.

But you also have to factor in finance - will it be possible to finance with just one of you guaranteeing?
 
Structure for developing

Hi Clint05

This is an email from my accountant and how my structure is set for purpose of developing, of course you need to seek your own professional advice on this.

This may be helpful?? Terry is the expert on SS when it comes to structures

Yes, I am FULLY AWARE that you are intending on keeping some properties and selling some properties?.This is why I am suggesting that you keep the development purchases in the trust. I am also aware that you may sell properties to assist with cash flow for the next developments, this is why we are also going to create a Project Management Company so that we can reduce the tax payable in any one year to a company tax rate whilst rewarding you for your services via a salary from the company.

So you will have Two (2) entities

1. The Trust purchasing the land for development
2. The company which will perform the project management and property management functions of your business and rentals


The newly setup project management company will contract its services to the land holding trust…..the company will register for GST

The land holding trust will develop the site, pay builders costs and pay the project management company during the development. The Trust will register for GST and may have CGT and GST to pay on the sale of the properties.

Once all the properties are built, some may be sold , some may be retained….BY THE TRUST….the ones retained will stay in the trust until sold or transferred to another entity of your wish….should you want to protect your assets further.

Also, You are required to register the Trust for GST as SOON AS the purpose of operation changes from being a residential investment to a development
 
Hi Clint05

This is an email from my accountant and how my structure is set for purpose of developing, of course you need to seek your own professional advice on this.

This may be helpful?? Terry is the expert on SS when it comes to structures

Yes, I am FULLY AWARE that you are intending on keeping some properties and selling some properties?.This is why I am suggesting that you keep the development purchases in the trust. I am also aware that you may sell properties to assist with cash flow for the next developments, this is why we are also going to create a Project Management Company so that we can reduce the tax payable in any one year to a company tax rate whilst rewarding you for your services via a salary from the company.

So you will have Two (2) entities

1. The Trust purchasing the land for development
2. The company which will perform the project management and property management functions of your business and rentals


The newly setup project management company will contract its services to the land holding trust…..the company will register for GST

The land holding trust will develop the site, pay builders costs and pay the project management company during the development. The Trust will register for GST and may have CGT and GST to pay on the sale of the properties.

Once all the properties are built, some may be sold , some may be retained….BY THE TRUST….the ones retained will stay in the trust until sold or transferred to another entity of your wish….should you want to protect your assets further.

Also, You are required to register the Trust for GST as SOON AS the purpose of operation changes from being a residential investment to a development

Sounds good MTR, but have you discussed this with a lawyer. How is the trust set up, the structure of the commpany, project management agreements, loan agreements - initial deposit, where did it come from? Succession aspects upon death or incapacity. Asset protection aspect and strategies. How is the Appointor role structured in the trust? who owns the shares in the trustee company? What happens if the appoinntor dies or loses capacity (accident, illness, insanity). What about the shareholder, the director?
etc
 
No, not yet... good points, something that will happen sooner than later.

Insanity on the list, I am afraid that has already happened:eek:
 
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