Everyone moving to Brissy. No opportunities in Sydney?

As some of you may have noticed, more and more threads are talking about Brisbane and less of Sydney nowadays.
OK I understand that there may be more deals up there or easier to find better deals in Brisbane.
However, what I don't understand is that if you have to buy in Sydney market e.g. PPOR and to some extend, wanna buy first IPs .... do SS community think that it will be just a waste of time?

Some have already mentioned that Sydney market is huge and some BAs would tell you there will be always a deal in a hot market.
However, when I approach some BAs, they would straight away suggest Brisbane! Difficult in Sydney etc with 400k budget, should reduce the budget and look at brissy.
 
As some of you may have noticed, more and more threads are talking about Brisbane and less of Sydney nowadays.
OK I understand that there may be more deals up there or easier to find better deals in Brisbane.
However, what I don't understand is that if you have to buy in Sydney market e.g. PPOR and to some extend, wanna buy first IPs .... do SS community think that it will be just a waste of time?

Some have already mentioned that Sydney market is huge and some BAs would tell you there will be always a deal in a hot market.
However, when I approach some BAs, they would straight away suggest Brisbane! Difficult in Sydney etc with 400k budget, should reduce the budget and look at brissy.

There are a lot of profitable deals in Sydney, they are just not in the lower end of the market as far as I'm aware.

Have met investors who are making 20-30% profits even having purchased this financial year. However the properties were quite unique and not in reach of the average mum and dad just starting out investor.

By unique, eg. house was for sale, turns out neighbour was the owner, so an extra 30sqm of land was purchased as part of the deal and the land became subdividable, purchased with $1M+ cash. Not common, and not exactly something a newbie would know to do.
 
However, when I approach some BAs, they would straight away suggest Brisbane! Difficult in Sydney etc with 400k budget, should reduce the budget and look at brissy.

I agree with NHG - there are deals with profit in any market for the right person but the buyer demand for sub 400k Sydney property is so fierce that you just don't get much for this and are unlikely to get a bargain. There is also the cycle argument and whether the best buying time in Sydney is past us.

With 400k there are markets where you can pick and choose and get a quality asset with differing kinds of potential and profit in them. It depends on what you want, and how flexible you are.

I sometimes see properties with 50-100k profit in them for cosmetic reno but they are not in Sydney so most people don't want them.
 
Hi

Hi,

We are seeing more and more clients buying into the Brissy market for the following reasons:
1) NSW / Sydney market has become expensive.
2) Consumers with limited deposits looking into other areas that are more affordable.
3) Brisbane market has been getting allot of positive attention so therefore more people follow the market trends.
4) Simply people are not putting all of their eggs into the one basket :)
 
Thanks Knight. From your signature, it says you're focusing on NSW regional towns. Could you please share ideas on what sort of regional town do you look at and key criteria? I'm also mindful that a lot of people in this forum suggest to entirely forget about investing in regional town and only capital cities.

TBH, I haven't looked at regional towns but would like to know more especially NSW south coast (closer than brissy hence more appealing to me)
 
As others have already touched on the thread, a lot of investors are moving into Brisbane and other markets (huge flow coming into Adelaide as of late) because of the previous surge in prices in Sydney. This has lowered yields in popular markets such as GWS, making them not as sure fire investments. The upper end of the Sydney market still presents a multitude of opportunities to investors as it follows different fundamentals however.

Brisbane has only come out of a reasonable slump post-floods and has entered a strong recovery phase - people are trying to ride this up. Fundamentally the market also presents a lot of opportunities with the reasonable yields, strong population growth and rezoning of areas to higher density.

In the end you have to make sure the properties that you purchase are going to meet your goals - if you require them to increase in the short term to provide deposits for follow up properties, buying a property which has increased 25-30% in the last 18 months may be less likely to meet your goals.
 
There are a lot of profitable deals in Sydney, they are just not in the lower end of the market as far as I'm aware.

Have met investors who are making 20-30% profits even having purchased this financial year. However the properties were quite unique and not in reach of the average mum and dad just starting out investor.

By unique, eg. house was for sale, turns out neighbour was the owner, so an extra 30sqm of land was purchased as part of the deal and the land became subdividable, purchased with $1M+ cash. Not common, and not exactly something a newbie would know to do.

ngh - which suburb are we taking about here? almost all suburbs close to the sydney are over $1 million.
 
I'm also mindful that a lot of people in this forum suggest to entirely forget about investing in regional town and only capital cities.

You need to understand that the income levels of the average SS contributor is a lot higher than the general population, so many of them can afford to purchase expensive properties in capital cities, but not all investors can do this.

Regional towns DO get capital growth, and they can be good investments, especially if you are on a lower income, but it's an individual thing.

We have a mix of regionals and Sydney. Sydney has been the best performer, but we've also had good results in regionals.
 
You need to understand that the income levels of the average SS contributor is a lot higher than the general population, so many of them can afford to purchase expensive properties in capital cities, but not all investors can do this.

Regional towns DO get capital growth, and they can be good investments, especially if you are on a lower income, but it's an individual thing.

We have a mix of regionals and Sydney. Sydney has been the best performer, but we've also had good results in regionals.

Good points Skater.


Thanks Knight. From your signature, it says you're focusing on NSW regional towns. Could you please share ideas on what sort of regional town do you look at and key criteria? I'm also mindful that a lot of people in this forum suggest to entirely forget about investing in regional town and only capital cities.

TBH, I haven't looked at regional towns but would like to know more especially NSW south coast (closer than brissy hence more appealing to me)

Lamecrocs - I have invested across the country but am from Sydney. I left Sydney 7 yrs ago and sea changed down to the Shoalhaven. In my view its beautiful, affordable, underdeveloped, a short drive to Sydney, small (compared to northside) but growing population and the people (and beaches) are amazing.

So firstly when we are talking regional you might mean "south of sydney" which is my core patch and in my view well timed to catch the ripple out of Sydney which always comes at the end of the boom.

If you are talking about regional regionals then I offer the below thoughts...

I have had properties in major city suburbs and in regional towns. My view is that with the right research and application either option can work, and it is important to understand each investor's own goals, cashflow and growth position and timeframes to build a portfolio. My ideal portfolio would be a mix of capitals and regionals spread across the country. The diversity reduces the risk. I don't really enter into the debate about cf vs cg as I have had +cf and -cf properties myself and profited from both.

This forum is heavily capital city weighted in its content and discussion. This is fine and probably appropriate given the numbers of deals done, population sizes etc.

I am happy to discuss regionals if you want. I have targeted a few over the years for myself or for clients and the reasons have varied. If a client(usually with their own inside industry knowledge or other reasons) has a particular need for a small remote town but is time poor or reluctant to do the travel and due diligence I can do that, and have done a number of times. This is usually an experienced investor who understands the risks associated with particular small towns but still wants to proceed.

If people are asking me what they should be buying then we are talking about a different kind of buyer. I don't know you so I am sorry if I offend but I would never suggest someone new to investing consider a small one horse town as their first investment. In that case I would want a low risk diverse regional option depending on their price point.

The very broad overview answer to your question is "it depends" but in terms of putting some meat on that concept the kinds of metrics I look for include the following:
ESSENTIAL
1 Diverse economy
2 Growing population
3 Low vacancy rates
DESIRABLE:
4 Freestanding housing with below median entry point options
5 Some kind of new infrastructure or "kicker" entering the economy
6 Limited or falling supply of housing
7 Increasing buyer interest (but not a swarm of media driven investors yet)
8 Fantastic yields (who doesnt want that?)
9 Some kind of value add potential (reno or dev)
10High or increasing incomes

Hope this helps
 
Ive got some research that say Fortitude Valley, Brisbane is going to be the fastest population growth in the nation.

The GFC and Floods busted development and prices so low, Bris will be catching up fro the next 2 years. Its buying time on the property clock fro Bris.

Sydney is so expensive, but it is still has a the loyal following of investors who won't look elsewhere, so prices are pushed up despite the low yields.

Bris and surrounds is still 5+ percent yield. Indication are with an interest rate drop in 2015 could fortel the smart money is moving to Brisbane and an early capital gain.
 
Ive got some research that say Fortitude Valley, Brisbane is going to be the fastest population growth in the nation.

I'd be wary of relying on population growth alone as an indicator - some of those same areas also have amongst the highest amount of new supply coming on to the market, including Fortitude Valley (and Brisbane inner city units in general for that matter).
 
I'd be wary of relying on population growth alone as an indicator - some of those same areas also have amongst the highest amount of new supply coming on to the market, including Fortitude Valley (and Brisbane inner city units in general for that matter).

yep - the old "if you build it they will come" prophecy.

I would rather have limited supply + desirability.
 
Personally wouldn't be touching Fortitude Valley at the moment with a potential vast over supply.

I have done 101 developments in New Farm and Newstead but opportunities there are fairly limited.

We are putting more and more clients who want inner city properties into the Inner West.

Cheers
 
what abt Paramatta and surronding suburbs.....guidford etc... <400K is possible keeping 2 bedder unit in mind but requires quick action....if you are looking for long term....Sydney is always the better choice
 
Sydney has had good growth over the past few years. Never buy in a boom or hot market, that is why most ppl are looking in brisbane or adelaide now....
 
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