Expensive problem for strata building

[handyandy]

Hi NSW

Looking at the extra pics I would suggest that the damage has been caused by the power cable either too tight over the years (I doubt) or simply a substandard bricking job on that front corner and the electrical cable catching the wind over the last 80 odd years. This seems to have pulled the whole corner brick work towards the road.

There is not just one crack but many cracks and I would doubt the stability of any of that brickwork.

No if's or buts as a first step I would move the electricity underground. This is achieved by installing a power pole on the corner of the block and then rerouting power from there. In this process they would also upgrade to power supply to the block, a minor advantage. I have used Budget power poles on a number of occasions for similar jobs. The last one was to move a 9 unit power board with a new underground power run for $8500. This was fire safety related.

http://www.truelocal.com.au/business/budget-power-poles/georges-hall

By moving the power cable you will at least have removed the pressure on the brickwork temporarily.

I personally don't think that the brickwork on the front corner should be saved. This has moved substantially and any fix in place will always be noticeable. The better solution is to peel all that front corner section following the lowest crack and relaying all those bricks.

That crack between the two windows looks like it has been worked on previously. This crack looks to be an expansion crack but really not sure as no longer in it's original condition.

Any lintels that are rusted need to be replaced immediately. If they are left the rust will swell and further crack the surrounding brickwork.


I would suggest that you make a list off all the building issues and then rate them on seriousness and start a plan to address them all over time.

My list would be

1) move the power cable
2) address the rusted lintels
3) concrete cancer
4) brickwork at front corner

Cheers

 

[NSW_1974]

Hello Handy Andy,

Thank you for your detailed reply. Energy Australia has come to inspect the power lines. They don't believe the power lines are the cause of the crack (I think I might have mentioned this before). They have moved the power lines to the right hook and loosened the cables to try and alleviate pressure off the front facade while we wait to have our AGM (next week).

Thank you for the referral to the power line company. That's an expensive exercise to move the power line! I would have liked to avoid that cost.

There has been an attempt to fix the front facade below as well as a few dodgy attempts around the building. It amazes me as a lot of the owners have owned their apartments for a long time. Don't they realise these cheap fixes won't last!

We've had a quote to re-build the front brick facade which will cost $3,195.00. I'm surprised that you would say to do that last. It looks like it will break off at any minute! I can be thankful that the crack is on the side of an apartment of one of the most complacent owners. She can't ignore the building anymore.

We've asked the structural engineer and the company who gave us the initial cost to let us know what is urgent but we have got the response that everything is urgent which is not helpful when we've got eight owners and not everyone is in the same financial situation.

I would like to know whether the brick ties are coroded. Would that be number one in your list of priorities and checks that; the structural engineer or the building company? When you say over time, what timeframe would that be do you think? I'm concerned about the cost of scaffolding as it seems we would be better off trying to most of it once. I'm sorry about all the questions! Really appreciate everyone's help.

 

[handyandy]

Hi NSW

The power company is not going to admit anything. As I indicated it could well be the affect of a tight cable over 60+ years but more likely bad brick work in that area and simply the wind catching the power cable (sea breeze).

Moving the power cable is a 1st priority because it's going to be in the way of any scaffolding and could still be creating more force on the brickwork. If you don't move the power cable it will add enormously to the cost of the repair.


The rusted lintels and concrete cancer are actively doing more damage to the building whilst they are not addressed which is why I put them next.

The bricks will just sit there which is why I have put them last.

Remember I am only judging this based on pic's and what you have mentioned so I may have missed some issues. This is why I indicated you should make a full list which should even include irrelevant things, things that would be nice-tease, you can just drop these when negotiating with the other owners.

To me that crack in the brickwork is not just on one side but is actually the whole corner section, front and side. The side has the visible cracks but the front is leaning forward. I would suggest removing the parapet down to the vent and from the front indent back to the second vent on the side. Then the outer skin of bricks below the parapet from that second vent back around to the window following the lowest stepped crack. I would think that is more than $4k worth of brick work particularly with scaffolding included.

The other thing that may have contributed to the brickwork damage is that there could be a water problem. I can't see how the water flows from behind the parapet thus there could be a water course that has developed around where the main crack is. Water would increase the brick growth in that locality and could generate the type of lateral cracks evident.

I don't believe that the bricks ties are a direct issue, particularly with the extent of the cracking, which should necessitate a rebuild of that corner. In rebuilding that corner new ties would be part of the rebuild.

By the way I don't believe that your issues are at all similar to the OP issues.

Cheers

PS get the folk that DaveM mentioned to come out and give their opinion.

http://www.remedial.com.au/structural-repairs/building-solutions

 

[NSW_1974]

Hi Handy Andy,

Oh yes, I don't think Energy Australia would ever admit fault and it wouldn't matter anyway as we are responsible for the attachment to the building - what a rort that is! I bet most people don't realise that.

Altogether including moving the power line, the quote was $18,000. Scaffolding is $3,900 and not included in the $4,000. The $4,000 includes:

- Rebuilding brick wall to match existing specifications including new stainless steel
- Brickwork cavity ties
- Re-building external brick parapet to façade
- Repair crack in façade parapet at front of the building
- Relay external brickwork skin to match existing or as close as possible
- Project management

Thanks for the tip about the water problem. The owner (pensioner) that lives on the ground floor has been complaining about water penetration problems and problems with her electricity. She has had tradesmen look at the apartment but no one seems to find the cause of the problem. The structural engineer did look at her apartment but no mention of it in his report. I've got her support as I actually listen to her - funny about that!

Three people have mentioned the brick ties now; the first structural engineer and the building company who looked at the property and the second structural engineer who said this might be a concern but he hasn't looked at the building. But of course you haven't seen the building and it's difficult to take picture of the most affected part. The jutting of the bricks is only one smallish section of the building on one side only (surprisingly not the side facing the beach).

What did you think of the Helefix solution - http://www.helifix.com.au/pdf/repair/RT01.pdf

Anyway, I will report back after the AGM next week. I have put down RBMS (Remedial Builders) as a company to call. Hope to hear from the OP as I've totally hijacked his post. Come back Nibbles55!!!

 

[Nibbles55]

I'm back and have responded to your private message, NSW 1974.

I was sidelined for a bit with dreadful family problems and amazingly, virtually forgot the issue with the unit block, which is surprising. I've still had the sleepless nights, just for other reasons that no amount of money can fix.

The AGM is next week (22nd) and we'll see how that goes. I just hope sufficient owners will show up for the meeting to go ahead.

One thing I will raise is the possibility of taking out a loan for the proposed work, given that will spread the payments over 5 years (to my knowledge the usual term for strata loans) and make it more manageable for those on lower incomes.

Here's a direct quote from the engineer's report: "Remedial works will be required to a large proportion of the northern and southern elevations and will include access scaffolding, removing external bricks to inspect and remove all debris bridging the cavity, installing vertical control joints and installing cavity ties".

Yikes.

Will update after the AGM.

 

[NSW_1974]

I'm back and have responded to your private message, NSW 1974.

I was sidelined for a bit with dreadful family problems and amazingly, virtually forgot the issue with the unit block, which is surprising. I've still had the sleepless nights, just for other reasons that no amount of money can fix.

The AGM is next week (22nd) and we'll see how that goes. I just hope sufficient owners will show up for the meeting to go ahead.

One thing I will raise is the possibility of taking out a loan for the proposed work, given that will spread the payments over 5 years (to my knowledge the usual term for strata loans) and make it more manageable for those on lower incomes.

Here's a direct quote from the engineer's report: "Remedial works will be required to a large proportion of the northern and southern elevations and will include access scaffolding, removing external bricks to inspect and remove all debris bridging the cavity, installing vertical control joints and installing cavity ties".

Yikes.

Will update after the AGM.

Hello Nibbles,

Thanks for the update and the response to my PM. I'm sorry to hear that you have had family problems. It does certainly put the problems with your building into perspective. I hope everything is ok.

Have you got a second opinion from a structural engineer or are you confident that the first report is right on the money? I will be recommending we get a second opinion.

It's a good idea to recommend the strata loan. I'm sure there will be a lot of owners who will not be able to cough up the funds for a special levy. The people who knew about the problems before they bought their apartment and perhaps bought them at a significant discount (thus allowing them to move forward with repairs straight away) are likely to be in a minority.

We are lucky in that we have 5/8 owner-occupiers so we are able to speak to each other directly about the building. It seems likely that only six owners (one investor) will turn up at the meeting and we will have the majority vote to push through with repairs. At the least, you have some people in the building who are willing to make repairs. This is half the battle.

I have just emailed the four owners (one is a pensioner and doesn't have access to email) my thoughts for the meeting. We are not always on the same page when it comes to things which can be quite frustrating (they are quite naive, trusting and not that savvy when it comes to discussing problems with this building, brilliant in other areas, I'm sure ). But it could be a lot worse.

It's been hard enough trying to get them to close the front door (break-ins, attacks and rapes only happen after the hours of 7pm and never on weekends it seems). I will send you a PM and anyone who is interested to let you know what happened at the meeting.

 

[Nibbles55]

Thanks NSW 1974 for your kind thoughts. I am intending to suggest that a second and hopefully less knee-jerk report be sought before we go to the quote stage.

At any rate, I hope we will find builders who, rather than just quoting for the work described in the current report, might generate some other more cost-effective solutions, such as chemical moisture barriers as has been suggested already in this thread.

 

[NSW_1974]

Thanks NSW 1974 for your kind thoughts. I am intending to suggest that a second and hopefully less knee-jerk report be sought before we go to the quote stage.

At any rate, I hope we will find builders who, rather than just quoting for the work described in the current report, might generate some other more cost-effective solutions, such as chemical moisture barriers as has been suggested already in this thread.

Like our building, the cost of getting another structural engineer report weighed against the estimated cost of the repairs is a very small amount. I can give you the details of a structural engineer. I will send you a PM. Knowledge is power.

Our AGM was on Tuesday night. It was in no way a pleasant experience. I am trying to strike a balance between owner-occupiers who seemingly have an open cheque book and investors who do not want to spend any money on the building and are waiting for developers to buy the block. All owners voted in the meeting. Summary of meeting:

• Strata levies raised. Figure was suggested by strata management. It was a significant rise. We need to bring our admin costs down.
• Special levy raised to correct deficit in admin fund.
• Special levy of $30,000 was raised.
• I was voted into the executive committee as secretary. Five people on the committee; three owners and two investors. A good balance.

I think it's a good start. $30,000 is nowhere the figure needed to raise the money to fix our building but to fair, the other owners were not sent the structural engineer report or quotes. I was advised this would be done and it wasn't. I had copies of the report and the quotes to give to the owners. From here, we can start investigating the problem and come back with solid quotes.

We also have a property next door who has requested to buy an easement. They do not have enough space to build a driveway. Their council application to build 8 carparks has been knocked back beause of this. Every park would add around 50k to each apartment's value. If the building was in a better shape, my first answer would be a definite no.

However, if we allowed them to use half a metre of the property which is not being utilised at the moment in return for at least $70k+. I think this might be a good way of raising funds. We are investigating this possibility and the ramifications. The strata manager is contacting the owner of the building next door to ask them to arrange a property valuation at their expense.

Edited to add: We also have an electrician on our executive committee which is great given the problems with the power line.

 

[handyandy]

Hi NSW

Re the selling of an easement. You need to be very careful particularly if you are hoping to sell for a redevelopment as by having an easement where currently there is none may impact the development possibilities of you block and deter any developer from engaging.

I have the unfortunate issue with one of my blocks that is 1600m in a hammer head shape. Before my ownership they allowed the establishment of a 3 meter drainage easement along one side of the property line which will now impact the ability to build a boundary to boundary apartment block. This type of redevelopment would be the next logical build on this block.

If I were in your shoes I would dismiss the approach out of hand.

Cheers

 

[NSW_1974]

Hi NSW

Re the selling of an easement. You need to be very careful particularly if you are hoping to sell for a redevelopment as by having an easement where currently there is none may impact the development possibilities of you block and deter any developer from engaging.

I have the unfortunate issue with one of my blocks that is 1600m in a hammer head shape. Before my ownership they allowed the establishment of a 3 meter drainage easement along one side of the property line which will now impact the ability to build a boundary to boundary apartment block. This type of redevelopment would be the next logical build on this block.

If I were in your shoes I would dismiss the approach out of hand.

Cheers

We would only sell to a developer if we couldn't save the building. But we should still think of the long term if the land was sold to a developer. Thanks for the warning and advice. You are always very helpful.

 

[NSW_1974]

Update on building works

Update: I ended up selling my property because it was becoming clear to me that there was one vocal (and particular hostile) committee member who was trying to delay the works and stage it over several years. At the end of this year, it would have been two years already. I just didn't want to get to the stage where the costs would be too prohibitive for us to be able to repair the property or sell it for a profit. There are properties in our area which have got to that point.

I also had the feeling the other owners didn't have the money to repair the building and possibly wanted it to deteriorate to try to sell the plot to a developer. I just wasn't sure of what this particular owner's agenda was but she had the support of most of the owners who were just too lazy to think for themselves.

It was a sad decision especially as I was on board just to pay for the repairs which I thought was more economical as it would cost less to do all the work at once and we'd get our lives back. The cost of selling and buying as you know it a lot! I just could not stand the constant meetings and the vitriol from this committee member especially as I was doing most of the work. It was like a second job.

On a positive note, I put the property on the market at the right time and it sold for a good price. I bought it in late 2011 and sold it in May for $150k more. It's in a very good location near to the beach hence all the problems we encountered. The new owner had the benefit of being able to look at the minutes and the scope of works so at least they didn't buy into the building blind like I did. I wish the owners all the best.

I will never buy into a strata scheme ever again. As an owner-occupier, it's just not for me. I appreciate all the help and assistance I received on this forum.

 

[JenJen]

Hi NSW_1974

Strata are a pain in the neck in my view, and best avoided where possible. Well done for getting out, and making a profit!

Cheers

Jen