facing reality

The ones most of us are discussing here are the young ones that we are hearing online or seeing in newspaper articles (although the media do try to find a good sob story) who are starting out and who have been bombarded with advertising, images of cool or trendy ways of living, etc. who think it sucks to start at the bottom with a modest 3/1/1 outside of the CBD or tiny unit in the CBD.
It's funny, you know, I have a friend who is a few years older than me, in his mid fifties, who always rented in trendy inner-west locations of sydney. Way back in the mid 90s he would complain how unaffordable real estate was. At that time I bought a house in the outer suburbs of Sydney and he mocked the whole concept of living so far from work, wasting time travelling on trains, etc. His golden rule was to never buy real estate more than 5Ks from the city centre.

As the years progressed, he was always just behind being able to afford what he wanted, always complaining how expensive "well-located" housing was.

Now, today, he is still renting -- in the mid-ring suburbs of Melbourne.

Every generation's got them.
 
Obama care, Obama phones, Obama is moving USA to BIG Govt so he can look after the low info voter (majority).

What happened to the proud American, get in and have a go way that built that nation to be the biggest economy in the world?

Gone from an aspirational to a expectational society IMO.

That is what all "great leaders" have done in their time: The Romans entertained their closest supporters and the masses while their economy was squandered, Hitler the same. We saw it in Oz during the GFC. We all know that if you want to remain in Govt you keep the poor masses entertained with big stadiums and To Hell or the guillotine with the hard-working, well-educated Middle class.

On reflection, I haven't heard about anyone going to the guillotine this century. Maybe I had better not be too hard on President Obama and the ALP after all.
 
As the years progressed, he was always just behind being able to afford what he wanted, always complaining how expensive "well-located" housing was.

Now, today, he is still renting -- in the mid-ring suburbs of Melbourne.

Every generation's got them.


Agree.

If there is any difference - apart from the media making it a topic of discussion - is there is more availability of more costly options available now that didn't exist before, like 4/2/2 or nice spacious apartments in city areas for example, that some would think should be a starter homes.

There was far less of that before - it was mostly modest units and 3/1/1's, or it was affluent areas for the wealthy (CBD was cheap here in SA).

If people accepted the norm to be a 3/1/1 or modest unit as a perfectly good option for a starter home then half the so called affordability problem would be solved.

But it's not... why many work long hours, save hard, bring in 2 incomes, or whinge.
 
I don't remember the previous generations travelling to America, Europe, Asia blah blah blah as much as this generation.

Of course you dont. Just like housing is more expensive relative to income, travel is significantly cheaper relative to income.

people have flown overseas for $300 return on specials, that is approximately the equivalent of 2 days wage for someone earning an "average" wage.

In the past travel was often the equivalent of a month or 2 wage, sometimes more.

there is absolutely no doubt that people are more spoilt nowadays and a lot of the time those doing the spending are the ones who can least afford it but to use the whole travel thing as a barometer of different generations is simplistic to say the least when you consider how much cheaper travel is nowadays.
 
people have flown overseas for $300 return on specials, that is approximately the equivalent of 2 days wage for someone earning an "average" wage.

True,

but that is just the flights. Accomodation, mini-trips, food, clothing, souveniers.

Most of my mates who find these 'specials' when I grill them about it, they usually spent about $5-8K minimum on a 2-3 week period. Now that + the 2-3 weeks they missed from work, that would be about a years savings for the average joe.
 
Really interesting reading.

Hate the generational bashing although that seems cleared up now!

Here are some facts from my life. Purchased in 1991 second house weatherboard in Northmead Sydney. Days of high interest rates. 95k mortgage io $16625 @ 17.5%

Housing was unaffordable then for fhb although you could get. 95% lend with building societies. The govt set up access to cheap loans with interest circa 14% to help fhb.

With the io repayments today we could have had a io mortgage for $316667 @ 5.25%.

We look at house prices yes, have no issues with that, but it is interest rates and that really affect purchasing and holding power.

Oh yep and my first home was in Minto, we built it through a lovely builder, parents lent money on top of mortgage so we could have a garage. we had no carpet till we could afford it had concrete floors......that first house was crucial to us entering the market. We had kids young that was why we lacked money. The kids cost us more, than any overseas trips or lattes, clothes etc and definitely interfered with our investment journey!!!

Disclaimer: I have no judgements on anyone. When people are ready they will find a way to get what they want.

Great to see so many people of all ages with experience in life, ip's and contributing to help others.....
 
The slab with no carpet brings back memories. We moved into our house just when our youngest was learning to walk. The poor thing had a terrible time of it, falling over on the concrete.

It's one thing when we do without things for ourselves, another when it impacts the little ones.
 
It's one thing when we do without things for ourselves, another when it impacts the little ones.
At the risk of rekindling the war (sorry:eek:), what I don't get is this whole move towards inner-city apartment living for young families. Their argument is that kid's don't go outside anymore, anyhow,so what's the point in buying a house with a yard.

I always saw the 40 min train trip I used to make into the city as a sacrifice for my kids sake - so that they could have a pool and a trampoline and grass and trees to climb.

Sure my kids spend a lot of time hunched over computers these days, but they also still spend a good portion of their time in that yard. What's more interesting, thought, is that so do all their friends from the nearby units. There is often a half a dozen kids here or more, enjoying the space that they apparently no longer want.

The 'burbs are a good place to raise a family. I kid you not.
 
True,

but that is just the flights. Accomodation, mini-trips, food, clothing, souveniers.

Most of my mates who find these 'specials' when I grill them about it, they usually spent about $5-8K minimum on a 2-3 week period. Now that + the 2-3 weeks they missed from work, that would be about a years savings for the average joe.

Uhh agreed. Know people whose savings climb at slow levels, probably say 5-10% per annum (from a not very high base but decent salary). When I look behind it, they go on two or three $5-6k holidays per year.

Not saying there's anything wrong with that. I do that too. Just explaining the generational thing.
 
It's replying to the younger gen that blame the oldies for everything.

Well perhaps some of the older generation raised some of the younger generation that way.
When once it was, "This is what you are getting".
Now it's, "Which one do you want"
Spoilt for choice imho.

At the risk of rekindling the war (sorry:eek:), what I don't get is this whole move towards inner-city apartment living for young families. Their argument is that kid's don't go outside anymore, anyhow,so what's the point in buying a house with a yard.

There's no denying that urban sprawl creates problems.
Here in Adelaide the planners will be developing housing on one of the current market garden areas, pushing the agriculture out even further. Come to think of it my home is built on an area that used to be market gardens. Then we have the push for urban consolidation that comes up against the NIMBY response.
Interesting that the population of the Adelaide city area used to be higher in the early 1900's than it is today before people moved out of the small cottages and into the suburbs with quarter acre blocks. Now they are slowly being encouraged to return to the city.
 
Interesting that the population of the Adelaide city area used to be higher in the early 1900's than it is today before people moved out of the small cottages and into the suburbs with quarter acre blocks. Now they are slowly being encouraged to return to the city.
Yes, it was the whole "garden city" concept back at the time of Federation, when reliable transport links were first being developed. The idea was that humanity could return to a more natural environment, away from the slums and overcrowding. It's kind of ironic that 100 years later it all started to reverse.

There's no denying that urban sprawl creates problems.
Here in Adelaide the planners will be developing housing on one of the current market garden areas, pushing the agriculture out even further. Come to think of it my home is built on an area that used to be market gardens. Then we have the push for urban consolidation that comes up against the NIMBY response.
True. Some of the most productive land in the world has been consumed by urban sprawl. Does that make a box 50 mtrs above the ground a great place to bring up children? Personally, I don't think so.

Of course, if you really want to wax philosophical, there are other solutions to the problem. Zero population growth being one. Unfortunately that doesn't bode well with our Warren Buffet style ever-expanding economic model, so the only solution we can come up with is to shove our kids into little boxes, because, god forbid, Warren can't forgo his profit margins.

Not so good for property growth either, lol, so I should probably shut up just about now.

But anyway, in the meantime, there are still plenty of reasonably priced established houses with land, many of them cheaper than than inner-city units. So the good news is that it's still possible to look after your kids, save the environment, and get into the property market at an affordable price!
 
Of course, if you really want to wax philosophical, there are other solutions to the problem. Zero population growth being one. Unfortunately that doesn't bode well with our Warren Buffet style ever-expanding economic model, so the only solution we can come up with is to shove our kids into little boxes, because, god forbid, Warren can't forgo his profit margins.

Simplistic outlook on housing, it's far more involved than that. But I guess you were only waxing.


Not so good for property growth either, lol, so I should probably shut up just about now.


Yep, your call, I agree.


But anyway, in the meantime, there are still plenty of reasonably priced established houses with land, many of them cheaper than than inner-city units. So the good news is that it's still possible to look after your kids, save the environment, and get into the property market at an affordable price!

Now your talking !
Glad you kept going...;)
 
So the good news is that it's still possible to look after your kids, save the environment, and get into the property market at an affordable price!

im genuinely curious as to how living in sprawl suburbs can be considered good for the environment
 
im genuinely curious as to how living in sprawl suburbs can be considered good for the environment

Google ecologically sustainable development it is possible. I think urban sprawl is more of an Americanism not relevant to Australia there is abundant land here
 
Google ecologically sustainable development it is possible. I think urban sprawl is more of an Americanism not relevant to Australia there is abundant land here

just because it is possible doesnt mean that it currently is

urban sprawl is an extremely valid term in australia too, perth metro from its northern most to southern most tip is about to officially become further than brisbane to gold coast and is causing a lot of problems
 
just because it is possible doesnt mean that it currently is

urban sprawl is an extremely valid term in australia too, perth metro from its northern most to southern most tip is about to officially become further than brisbane to gold coast and is causing a lot of problems

I dunno why Perth does not sprawl out through the hills and over onto the paddocks?

There are obviously many who arent interested in the beach but want proximity to CBD etc and happy to live near by.

Whats the go there..?

Also, what are the problems you mention ?
 
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