famaily trust name

[willy008]

if i start a family trust do i have to use the family name
can i use a number or some other word.
and still be able to include my futre children that arnt born yet.
and keep my girl freind out of it after we get married.
because i have a lot of freinds and family that have sticky noises
and want to know every thing about every one.
and always try to steal ideas before i can get to them.....

 

[willy008]

from what i have read dale is the best man to see...

 

[alexlee]

if i start a family trust do i have to use the family name
can i use a number or some other word.
and still be able to include my futre children that arnt born yet.
and keep my girl freind out of it after we get married.
because i have a lot of freinds and family that have sticky noises
and want to know every thing about every one.
and always try to steal ideas before i can get to them.....

Since a family trust is discretionary, NO beneficiary has claim to any of the trust assets unless the trustee makes the distribution. i.e. your girlfriend (or future wife) doesn't have any claim to trust assets or income. It's all up to the trustee.

The key is to have a trustee who will act according to YOUR wishes. That might mean making yourself the sole director of the trustee company, and making sure whoever is the appointor (you initially, but provide for it in your will, such as transferring the powers of the appointor to a friend / advisor who will carry out your wishes).

Beneficiaries (named or otherwise) aren't entitled to ANY information from the trust, especially if they don't get distributions. They don't even have to be informed that they 'might' be beneficiaries. i.e. no one except you has to know the trust even exists (unless they steam your mail). All the info can be kept secret by the trustee (you, via a sole director trustee company) and your accountant / lawyer.
Alex

 

[bort]

use somethin funny!

how about ... Big Willy's Trust ... okay thats the cleanest one i could think of

 

[Mry]

Since a family trust is discretionary, NO beneficiary has claim to any of the trust assets unless the trustee makes the distribution. i.e. your girlfriend (or future wife) doesn't have any claim to trust assets or income. It's all up to the trustee.

Actually the trust and its assets is up for grabs if the ex-husband is able to control it as a trustee and/or appointor.

I do suggest having a close non-family friend as a joint appointor in a trust as I head it can benefit you, but I am not a lawyer.

Names really don't matter, its what the positions are that makes the difference. I plan on calling my next trust "The Filliam H. Muffman Hybrid Discretionary Trust". That name is awesome.

As for people finding out about the trust, its not that big a deal. Hide it with your accountant, and if they find out just make stuff up.

 

[Rolf Latham]

I do wish some of the highly rewarded legal council of some lenders and mortgage insurers would take Somersoft Trusts 101

Imagine for a moment..........grandma owns a property, and grandson wants her to guarantee a loan for him..............what are the chances that most lenders would look at that ............zip

Because she is deemed to have no financial interest.

But, for a moment, if the grandson has a trust, AND lists grandma as a DISCRETIONARY beneficiary, many lenders demand that she signs a guarantee...............even though she may never benefit in income or capital and its likely she will be long gone before the trusts vests............

Odd stuff

ta
rolf

 

[Terryw]

Hi

I believe it is good practice to name your trust something completely different to your own name. People can start doing some checks on the interest and find things pretty easily these days. eg. www.abr.gov.au shows ABN numbers, type in someone's name and you may find they have a trust set up. No big deal, but you may not want to advertise things.

 

[letiha]

Beneficiaries (named or otherwise) aren't entitled to ANY information from the trust, especially if they don't get distributions...All the info can be kept secret by the trustee (you, via a sole director trustee company) and your accountant / lawyer.
Alex

I know that this thread is a bit old, but I just wanted to clear up this. Beneficaries can obtain details of the trust even if they are just discretionary beneficiaries. This is limited of course, documents that contain reasons for the trustee's decisions or documents covered by legal professional priveledge, or ones that the settleor has requested to remain anonymous are normally off limits.

The case law on this is varied, but basically in most cases the beneficiary will be entitled to infomation as long as it does not interfer with the rights of other beneficiaries or is one of the categories mentioned above.

 

[alexlee]

I know that this thread is a bit old, but I just wanted to clear up this. Beneficaries can obtain details of the trust even if they are just discretionary beneficiaries. This is limited of course, documents that contain reasons for the trustee's decisions or documents covered by legal professional priveledge, or ones that the settleor has requested to remain anonymous are normally off limits.

The case law on this is varied, but basically in most cases the beneficiary will be entitled to infomation as long as it does not interfer with the rights of other beneficiaries or is one of the categories mentioned above.

Interesting. Reading a sample trust deed a LOT of people are classed as beneficiaries. What sort of documents are they entitled to? Given that a trustee has full discretionary powers, why are beneficiaries entitled to any documents?
Alex

 

[letiha]

There are a few schools of thought on this:

1. Basically there has been a general rule that a beneficiary is entitled to see all trust documents because they are trust documents and because he is a beneficiary. They are in this sense his own. This is on the basis that a beneficiary has a proprietary right.

2. This view has been changing over the last few years, with recent cases stating that this propritary interest alone does not give a right but it is at the courts descretion to decide what documents may be disclosed. I think the most recent on is Avanes v Marshall in the supreme Court of New South Wales, March 2007.

In most of the cases I have been reading in this area lately, documents that are related to accounting and financial statements. For example so a beneficiary can see that the trustee is following their fiduciary duty. This is one of the reasons why the courts are starting to change to ensure that there is not a general right for documents to be disclosed, I think that in most cases I have read they use a fairly common sense approach to this. However as stated before documents that show how a trustee came to a decision and documents that woudl be covered by legal professional privelege would not be discloseable.

 

[secret squirrel]

funny i ask qc same question while ago. because one beneficiary wanted trust documents. they send me email they reply

"this should not be taken to mean that a beneficiary has an actual proprietary interest in trust documents (Rouse v IOOF Australia Trustees Ltd (1999) 73 SASR 484 and Global Constructions Ltd v Mesh [2002] NSWSC) but that the right to access trust documents stems from the beneficiary's interest in the trust property, and so in that sense the right may be described as proprietary (Breen v Williams (1996) 186 CLR 71"

so i have to give beneficiary trust document because they ask. i gave to them. ok they did nothing with it.

 

[Georges]

You can call it "Trust Pty Ltd As Trustee For The Trust Trust"

OR

I wonder if you could call it "the Federal Trust" or "The Westpac Trust" if you like it?

 

[letiha]

SS

Thats basic my understanding of it, well lets hope so have my second last Uni assignment on it due tomorrow. I suppose the only change in the case law since that judgement is the courts descretion, which i suppose is a good thing for trustee's who are doing the right thing. A bad thing for those not doing the right thing because the judge will usually view the documents to determine if they should be disclosed if the trustee objects.