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hard working aussie families ("working families") will see their largest asset devalued, whilst rents will rise and outgoings for commercial tenants will directly increase
... god lets hope it remains so, there are enough half brained quack ideas on how to wring money out of productive contributors to society as it is, we need less not more
I agree, the thread which has some very useful information at the start has now been turned into a slinging match. Is it possible to either delete the latest posts, or put them into a thread of their own. As a sticky this thread is permanently at the begining of all the posts for easy access & the latest posts, while entertaining, are not in the spirit of the original thread.
I agree, the thread which has some very useful information at the start has now been turned into a slinging match. Is it possible to either delete the latest posts, or put them into a thread of their own. As a sticky this thread is permanently at the begining of all the posts for easy access & the latest posts, while entertaining, are not in the spirit of the original thread.
Investment in raw land for the hope of future capitalisation does not provide a single job; it is an unproductive investment which forces up land prices by creating relative scarcity
Once again, I'm very disappointed no-one on a property forum bats an eyelid over that statement.
You can only beat yor head against a brick wall so many times... ok I'll try a bit more.I'm very disapointed in my fellow forum members that no-one has anything to say regarding that statement. Maybe it's only been an hour and people haven't read it as yet.
Anyway, Lev seems to have beaten everyone into submission. Onya Lev.
It has your name on it... Take responsibility. If your opinion has changed since then, say so & also state what you now believe.Actually that was a paraphrase from David Ricardo. Not that I'm even a member of Prosper Australia anymore and haven't been for a year.
Petty criminals??? Maybe we can increase payments to them instead?The Age Letters 19/11/07 said:THE Prime Minister has announced that those convicted of offences involving heroin, cocaine or amphetamines will have their welfare payments quarantined.
This policy will not reduce the use of such drugs one iota. One can only assume it is being proposed for punitive purposes, rather than rehabilitation.
However, such petty criminals will turn to other sources for their necessary income; if not more drug dealing, then certainly theft. Is the Prime Minister also going to dovetail this policy with a home and belongings insurance subsidy? Because it certainly will be needed.
Lev Lafayette, Ripponlea
I'm glad you had the authority to speak on behalf of "almost every economist in the world."The Age Letters 17/2/05 said:We don't need less land tax, we need more. At the same time, we need to reduce taxes on all productive activity. In fact, we can, and should, seek to abolish all taxes except for land tax and other resource rentals. That is what almost every economist in the world recommends. Why don't we listen to them?
Lev Lafayette, St Kilda
Did David Ricardo "paraphrase" this for you as well?http://www.greenleft.org.au/2006/672/6429 said:Landlords are well recognised as the least productive class in society. Perhaps the ALP needs to decide whether it is the Australian Labor Party or the Australian Landlord Party. It will be interesting to see whose interests they end up supporting.
Lev Lafayette
Melbourne
I know, you are not a member of this organisation any more...Lev Lafayette 28/6/06 said:Tonight I am representing Prosper Australia, an organisation which has, in various guises, been a part of Victoria for over one hundred years. One key objective of the organisation is the reduction, as much as possible of taxes on labour and capital, and for public finances to be derived instead from site rental.
...I should also mention that I am a member of the Australian Labor Party. For several years I was the policy convenor of the Labor Left - Pledge Unions faction, the so-called "hard left" socialist group which strongly opposed the privatisation of public assets and had such disconcerting foreign affairs policies such as ending apartheid in South Africa, self-determination of East Timor, democracy in Indonesia and a state for the Palestinians.
A handful of people in Australia receive the lion's share of the site rent of this nation; this is monies extracted from labourers and productive investors and wealth created from such people. The economist, David Ricardo, saw with great clarity, describing the interest of the landlord (by which he meant literally - not the person who owns and invests in houses) as utterly opposed to the interests of all other classes. Then John Stuart Mill following this lead wrote;
"Landlords grow rich in their sleep without working, risking or economizing. The increase in the value of land, arising as it does from the efforts of an entire community, should belong to the community and not to the individual who might hold title."
This simple principle of public finance, so far-reaching in its justness and effectiveness, is the orientation that Victoria needs.
1. I'm not in the business of creating jobs....that's the Govt's responsibility. I want my Land to appreciate. It's my no.1 objective of why we bought it and pay to hold it, and if that's against the Govt's social feel good agenda, then that's great.
2. The rates and taxes we pay to hold and control the land pay for oodles of Govt work.
3. Raw land still requires the services of surveyors, fencing contractors, weed controllers, valuers every now and again, and what we buy, can be used as laydown area for a whole raft of machinery....far more useful than infrastructure that has height, access and width limitations.
4. Relative scarcity is also created when companies enter into arrangements to buy-back shares from shareholders and cancel them. This creates scarcity in the issued capital and effectively forces the value of the remaining shares up. Warren Buffett has been using this tactic for decades. What's wrong with that ??
5. Banks generally speaking don't give a rats about the improvements on the Lot. They value the raw land as well...where it is, how big it is, and the aspect of it.....hence why we don't renovate.
Anyway, Lev seems to have beaten everyone into submission. Onya Lev.
You can only beat yor head against a brick wall so many times... ok I'll try a bit more.
It has your name on it... Take responsibility. If your opinion has changed since then, say so & also state what you now believe.
You want "tax reform" but you haven't actually said what you want changed except increased land tax. So, what rate do you want land tax to be? How about income tax? GST? Has you great list of economists (with no links provided) got any figures lev? Put some substance into your wishy-washy dribble...
The AgePetty criminals??? Maybe we can increase payments to them instead?
The AgeI'm glad you had the authority to speak on behalf of "almost every economist in the world."
Earth SharingI know, you are not a member of this organisation any more...
As a young communist I always thought it important to read as much about the far right in politics as I did about the my chosen side. Ann Rand's book entitled Atlas shrugged was the first of many books that I looked at regarding the opposing arguments of the common good. Both extremes profess to have the masses interest at heart but both apply the jack boot to the esophagus and squeeze the life out of anyone who stands in the way of their brand of "social good"
"Bye Bye American pie drove my chevy to the levy" but lev Lafayette your argument just doesn't hold water. In democratic societies where in the last 100 years the masses have been allowed to acquire and accumulate property those societies have flourished and broken down the class system which you profess to abhor. ( Canada, USA, Britian, Australia, New Zealand)........Where governments have stepped in and expropriated or applied unfair imposts on the ownership of land such as mugabe in Zimbabwe
the people have starved. Tell me its a nasty capitalist plot the entire sorry story of the bread basket of Africa that is now the basket case of Africa
The 19th century caricature of the anti-semetic hook nosed shylock landlord needs to be consigned to the waste basket of history. Your clever card trick of advocating the site rental "tax" is exactly what current state governments have done with their voracious land tax imposts. They cynically reason that it is a small group who are powerless. In fact a recent survey suggests that up to 17% of Australian families own at least one investment property.
You said it all above that the increase in land values should belong to the community.....Stand and deliver Lev?
The fact that those "theories remain rooted in the 19th century with all the baggage of its time, speaks volumes about the irrelevance of your premise.
Answer gee Lev I must have really wounded you with that one. You espouse a doctrine thats major goal is to expropriating landlords capital but squirm when I pick out only one example of a kleptomaniac who has applied your principle all be it with a a Zimbabwean twist
Can I recommend a great holiday read Lev if you haven't already got it. Its called WHO OWNS THE WORLD the hidden facts behind Landownership by Kevin Cahill ISBN 978 184596 158 9 It should be in every landlord and rebel rousers library shelf
I'm still trying to understand if you are proposing for a massive increase in umimproved land tax or upon all land developed or not?
to be honest the former I couldnt care less about, as I have no intention on sitting on raw land. in fact if it relieved me of my current land tax burden it would be advantageous, tho still morally wrong
I was once very interested in this thread but like others am getting bored with what's been postled lately. Can we get back to more practical issues and leave the philosophying to another thread?