Financial Advisors under attack

Unlike my normal self I will attempt to tread carefully here. There has been lot's of press today re : financial advisors, you guy's have been waiting for this right ???
I know a number of you are regulars and there are more lurkers. I heard reports stating 50% duds and 50+% of the remainder as commission sharks......
Time to rebutt folks...
craig.
BTW : my plan is my plan and I'm happy with where that lands me.
 
Stirring the pot

Well yes it is about time this subject was highlighted:

The complaint I commonly receive about Financial Planners is that firstly the large majority are NOT into property.

So, is this because they regard property as a bad investment?

Or, could it be that they don't receive any commission if you buy property directly??

Or, maybe they think property is good, but they do not have the knowledge or qualifications to make adequate recommendations about property??

The second major complaint is that their plans very rarely seem able to solve the problem:

Example: You wish to be financially Independent in 10 years time:

Okay, so their plans include managed funds and also some managed funds, and super of course and then some managed funds as well. Ahem Mr. Planner, what about property? "Hmmmmmm, bit risky don't you think and you will have all that debt, aah and what happens when you don't have a tenant. Better we create a fully diversified portfolio of various managed funds. In fact you could spread you investments into these 12 or more different funds, see they all have different attributes and thus we are spreading your risk. Very safe indeed!"

In fact if we spread the investments around far enough, it doesn't matter if one or another fails because you will get the greater average of how they all perform.

(Sheesh, and I always wanted to be average)

What happens if they all do badly?

WHAT? All of them?? Really, really - can you see all of them doing badly at the same time?

(What about these last three years??)

"Hmmmmm, well you do have to expect that the market can go down as well as up. After all, shares are a long term investment. In the long run it will all be ok."

Yes, but what about my attaining financial independence?

Uh hmmmm, now lets look at your risk cover, see if you want to be truly independent then you need to have lots of risk cover. At least 20 times what you currently earn . . .

[Humorously written by Steve Navra]

Okay BEFORE you shoot me down, I am a Proper Authority Holder
Salisbury Group Pty Ltd
Dealers license no: 191 566

My real contention regarding this issue is that most planners have completely missed the boat when it comes to diversification.

There are three main mediums in which you can invest:

1) Property
2) Shares
3) Cash

True diversification means utilizing ALL THREE mediums.

Note: spreading investments amongst 3 to 12 different managed funds is NOT diversification. It is spreading / averaging the portfolio. Managed funds make up a mere 5% of total funds invested (Ref: FPA) so how on earth anyone can claim that spreading investments into a 5% segment of the market is diversification, is beyond me.

Property offers the advantage of safe leverage. (Not my opinion, rather it is the reason why banks will lend up to 90+% of the assets value.)

Shares offer a good return, but the leverage is not as safe. (See the banks offer max 60% to 70% leverage IF it is a strong blue chip company)

Cash provides liquidity, serviceability and stability.

ALL THREE ARE NECESSARY to create a balanced and diversified portfolio.

Better still, if you can employ the same dollar simultaneously into all three, then you might well become financially independent in ten years!

Now, if you will just sign on the bottom line . . . there where I have marked it with X________________X

Well then, I promise to lock all your money up in your super for the next 32 YEARS. Not only can you or anyone else ever get to it, but hey look at the great tax benefits.

Couldn't be safer than that, now could it?


PS: Hmmmmm, well yes I meant to disclose that I will be receiving all these commissions - well you can understand this, after all how on earth am I to become financially independent if I do all this work for nothing?
 
My time spent with the last F/P I have seen went like this.

I am getting a payout of X.

F/P Put it in super!

What will I live on till I reach 65?

F/P Ummmmmmm.

What about property?

F/P listed or unlisted trust?

How about direct investment with gearing?

F/P Ummmmmm.

Bye.

bundy
 
Re: Stirring the pot

Originally posted by Steve Navra
PS: Hmmmmm, well yes I meant to disclose that I will be receiving all these commissions - well you can understand this, after all how on earth am I to become financially independent if I do all this work for nothing?


This is hilarious! :D

BUT sadly also true. The truly wealthy financial planners don't seem to actually do what they preach...eg Paul Clitheroe's main wealth has come from him building up IPAC securities - his BUSINESS of financial planning, not from doing the things he craps on about to the masses.

The scary thing is that concepts like "diversification" and "dollar cost averaging" sound so much like common sense...so sensible and plausible "don't put all your eggs into one basket" etc that through smoke and mirrors, planners are able to convince well intentioned people that they are doing the right thing by them...makes my blood boil :mad:

I prefer to put my eggs in a couple of baskets and watch them like a hawk!;)
 
I've had first hand bad experience of financial planners- I've mentioned previously of $53,000 paid out (with more to come) to the ATO after following an adviser's advice.

But there was a second hand roll-on.

About 18 months ago, there was a block of flats in Queanbeyan. 20 flats- 10 1br, 10 2br. They were in shocking condition- but structurally good- and returning 12.5% at a 40% occupancy.

Cost was $500K, and I did not have the equity.

I approached a friend, who sought advice- and decided to proceed with me.

We had good estimates of $250K to renovate.

We indicated to the agent that we were wanting to proceed, but that we were seeking finance.

My partner went back to his FP- who told him that he'd changed his mind, and suggested that managed funds were a much better way to invest money.

I did find another partner, but it was too late. By the time he was ready, the block had gone. The new buyer renovated and sold, at probably 60% profit.

If the FP had initially disapproved, and left me time to find something else, I would have had time to get another partner early- obviously I would have been able to get the property if the FP had kept to his original advice.

Sorry, this was prompted by Steve's thoughts on FPs being ignorant of property.
 
To date I've had one experience with a financial advisor

In my pre investment life , in the mid 90's we were approached the Australian Scolarship fund ( or something like that ) to invest in our "childrens future".

We thought about it and consider that, and toyed with option of buying an investment property ( well looking it at least ). I was advised by a relative to talk to his financial advisor who recommended that our best investment was to pay off our mortgage , and this would give us a better return than any investment he could recommend.

At least we wern't advised to go into ostrich farms which were all the rage then.

Unfortunatly it took me about five years to realise the error of this advise. After all he was an expert .......

See change
 
Originally posted by see_change
We thought about it and consider that, and toyed with option of buying an investment property ( well looking it at least ). I was advised by a relative to talk to his financial advisor who recommended that our best investment was to pay off our mortgage , and this would give us a better return than any investment he could recommend.

Well see

Sadly it was probaly a better investment than any he was flogging off and at least he was honest.

At least you could do a redraw when you found out better.......not an option for some of the other schemes that have been around.

Bundy
 
Reading that article about FP's has been a vindication of my own unhappy experience of this breed.

I followed my gut feeling on these guys and never took their 'advice'. Since these were all free initial consultations, I lost no money at all.

With this report, all I can say is that FP's are for the most part totally useless.

There was mention in the article of sombody complaining that their FP had advised them to get self-help books. Maybe not bad advice at all as long as they pertained to managing money, investment vehicles, and running a business.

Trust no one. Use your brains. I know thinking is hard, but it'll be worth the effort in the end.

cheers.

Desto.
 
Unfortunately the survey conducted has revealed some truths. Many FP's are ex insurance salesmen (sharks) that have done a few courses but deep down their colours havent changed.

After years of referring clients to FP's and seeing them earn enormous commissions for doing "very little" i decided to go study and get my PA.

I agree with Steve that you need a mix of investments and personally i have a preference for property.

You should always ask your FP where they have their money invested. If it is not in Managed funds then why are they recommending them to you !

I am extremely passionate about this and wish ASIC would put the cleaners through some of these companies and banks in particular.
 
I wen to Merryl Lynch years ago, pleasant chap, lots of official looking certificates on the wall.

I was impressed by the up-front no holds barred assessment given. I was in dreadful financial shape, and the guy told me so. The recommendation was to hold on to some funds and liquidate others, stop contributing extra to super (!!!) and invest $X directly in property valued at $Y in a certain suburb (!!!!).

He suggested getting rid of our expensive car, and sell the boat.

He suggested we keep renting if we could (!!!!!) as owning a PPOR nowdays is not necessarily a financially good thing.

And get this .... it was all free!!! If we wanted a full-on session, with help on gearing shares, buying a property etc then it was going to cost $Y, m.

That was all just the initial interview. He suggested reading John Burley and RDPD.

Never did go back, have done everything from there on in myself.


Not everyone out there are reprehensible satan spawn.
 
Originally posted by JumJones

Not everyone out there are reprehensible satan spawn. [/B]

Hey Jum,

I agree, one should not generalise too quickly, there ARE some fantastic planners out there. As the survey suggested at least 2% of them are fantastic and professional in the services they render.

Logically then, deal only with the 'good' 2% ;)

Steve
 
We also went to a couple of Fps who said we were too top heavy in property and should sell a couple of IPs and invest in managed funds. There was no plan on where we would be in 10 years time.

We also went to a well known Independant Property Advisor who wasn't interested in our current portfolio in regional Victoria but was willing to help us sell our IPs for a fee and they would find us a great flat in Melbourne very quickly.

It's very frustrating to go to these people for advice when they will not even consider your current investments.

I end up going back to Jan Somers Books to give us the confidence that we are doing the right thing. We've pretty much followed her advice from the start and with five properties in three years and great CG and rental return we must be doing something right.
 
My experience is the same for Accountants and FP's. More of the same stuff each time.

I've been given a tip for a good accountant, only to come out of their offices having taught them something new, but no help for me !!! (Apparently being PAYE makes life too hard!)

The frustrating thing is, I know there are SOME good ones out there of both accountants and FP's, but damn, they sure are hard to find!

Diversify - what to do when you dont want to know what you're doing. It's also hard to be sued if you advised someone to diversify.... (Mind you, Steve had a good point - Diversify across types - shared, cash, bonds, property, not just within the same segment like the stockmarket.)

eg. If I throw enough darts at a stock table, I'm sure to pick some winners amongst it all. Heck, a monkey can do it - they prove that all the time!

Specialist - Know what you are doing, and concentrate on that.

eg. Understand a specific market segment / suburb and concentrate on that. Knowledge helps you avoid the dud's - most times anyway ;-)

What you'd like to ask a FP / Accountant....

Hi, before we talk about me, lets talk about you.... Can you tell me your current and recent investments, your retirement strategy, your net worth, your current gearing position and strategy etc etc etc.

Who wants advice from the guy who HAS to get up every morning to go to work, or he loses HIS house? I want advice from someone who knows what they're doing - at least more than me anyway....


just my 2.2c (incl GST)

Cheerio

Simon.
 
the best financial planner was me dear old dad and the next best is dear Jan Somers - since reading her first book i have increased my portfolio with 8 ip's.

how can anyone take advise from anyone that has not achieved anything themselves.

why get advise from a spectator.

" those who can - do "
" those who can't do - teach "
 
Originally posted by Steve Navra
Hey Jum,

I agree, one should not generalise too quickly, there ARE some fantastic planners out there. As the survey suggested at least 2% of them are fantastic and professional in the services they render.

Logically then, deal only with the 'good' 2% ;)

Steve
So it's really the bad 98% which are giving the rest a bad name?
 
I agree with your comment Simon:

"Who wants advice from a guy who HAS to get up every morning to go to work, or he loses HIS house? I want advice from someone who knows what they're doing - at least more than me anyway........"

I think the ideal is to:

1. Find an experienced mentor/advisor that is generous enough with his/her time to talk to you about their experiences and where you'd like to see yourself heading.

2. Listen! Learn! Listen! Learn! Listen! Learn!

3. Evaluate what you believe is the right direction for you as an individual/family. Remember, things such as risk profiles etc. will vary from individual to individual and what may be excellent advice for one person may not be right for another.

4. Remember that if your fortunate enough to get good advice from a mentor/advisor; their role is only to point YOU in the right direction and guide you...........not necessarily CARRY you every step of the way. Use good advice as a major input to your own financial education/journey. It's SO important......but so is your own personal reading/listening/monitoring/development etc. IMHO the combination of both will give you a great springboard to achieving your goals........whatever they may be. :)




:)
 
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