Financial Planners ??

Financial Planners do they really exist.?

Call a spade a spade.Please

Humans who buy and sell cars are called car salesman NOT Transportation Planners or Advisers.!!

Financial planners should be called Managed Fund Salesman.!!
Not meant to sound derogatory or condescending simply an accurate JOB description. Probably politically incorrect of me also.!

In person or through the media many just hammer direct property investment.?? Usually comments to the effect NOT Now ie timing issues, asset allocation overweight etc.

Apologies to any FP's out there.

Just wanted to get this off my chest.

Yeah I know RE agents also don't recommend managed Funds.
 
Hi Skier

I dont think its so much that FP's tend to have a limited view on direct property because of vested financial interest.

It is in my view more to do with the fact the Diploma of Financial Planning has 8 modules, not ONE of which focusses primarily on direct property investment. Financial Planning is much more about risk management and long term mediocre (but "safe") results.

I have done a couple of the modules and certainly there is defined focus on spreading risk through diversification and from that point of view property is OK provided its in a listed trust.

Where FP's have become involved in direct property it has commonly been with some form of marketing company, and that also has meant that most planners dont want to get their hands dirty.

I believe its very easy to "blame" the market when your recommendations dont deliver the goods if you use a managed funds mix. It is much harder to do that when you have steered someone to a particular property and it turns out to be a dog.

Ultimately FPs have their place. Our Super system and our societal need for "complying income streams" in retirement will ensure that there will not be enough good FPs. Indeed, given the tax and pension benefits of such income streams sometimes I do suggest that clients nearer to retirement speak with an FP about their situation, rather than look at direct property only. Many are better off tipping their money into an allocated pension/annuity and part relying on the additional benefits available.

This is all just opinion of course, everyone must seek their own advice.

Ta

Rolf
 
the Diploma of Financial Planning has 8 modules, not ONE of which focusses primarily on direct property investment
Rolf, I'd be interested to know what they do focus on.
I'd imagine that the modules might be:

Salesmanship 101. How to convince the client to invest their Super Fund into YOUR fund.

Insurance 101. How to work with an insurance salesman for maximum mutual benefit (excluding the client's benefit of course). How to sell 20 types of insurance the client didn't even realise they needed.

Commission 101. How to convince clients that the funds which give you the greatest commission are really also the best for them.

Salesmanship 202. How to convince the client of the benefits of high risk investments which return you 25% of funds invested...

I won't go on. I've had bitter experience of FP's which are documented elsewhere on this forum ($50K plus to ATO- not counting other failed schemes).

I've been told that Commission 101 is really close to what they teach you at the start. But I don';t know that for sure.

And I've also been burnt by a potential partner in what turned out to be a very lucrative RE investment (for someone else) which got scuttled because my partner's FP told him to invest in managed funds.

I find Steve Navra's stuff refreshing. He appears to offer something so much better than most FPs.

But, given my experience, I reserve the right to remain cautious.
 
You are being too nice Rolf!

All super, managed funds, and their supporters have mange and no place in a civilised society. Anyone contemplating such silly actions as investing in one should talk immediately to Rolf the (mode)'rator' or Kellie (0413925943) and earn some _real_ money!
 
Hi JL

Dont mix up Super and Managed Investments !

One huuuuuuuuuuge difference. You have a choice as to whether you put cash into a Managed Fund.

You have no real such choice with Super in most PAYG instances.

Ta

Rolf
 
I think the fact that they call themselves financial planners and not independant investment advisers already says a lot.As long as you know where they are coming from and how they get paid, it is not a problem to rate any advice given. As for super it is not an investment but rather a tax structure that holds investments. The type of investment you hold in super determines the return. Keep in mind the rules the large super funds operate under when placing their funds. This has a major impact on the returns they can get when certain markets don't perform well each year. Makes a case for smf's for those with good investment knowledge and who are willing to take resposibility for their own future.
 
Super funds

So as Rolf pointed out there is no option with super apart from self managed funds - that can't borrow to invest.

Does anyone know of super funds that are actively investing in residential property who are making good returns?

I thought I was doing the right thing by diversifying my investments and having some of my super rollover in shares. Got to do something about it asap.

Cathy
 
If you areable to switch between different options offered by the fund you may find you could have chosen to have been more heavily invested in fixed interest securities or property trusts and would not have experienced the the same low/negative performance. There are also some geared funds available and if you are using an smf you can also gain leverage using instalment warrents.
 
Another option of borrowing through super is investing in geared funds. This may be as effective as margin lending with hedging. Although they went nowhere in the last year or so.

Say cheese :p

Lotana
 
Screaming pigs!!!!!!!!!

It sounds to me like many property investors posting comments about Financial Planners and Superannuation have failed to follow some fundamental logic.

As John Burley says, screaming pigs squeal rather than devote the time and effort to become level 4+ investors. Perhaps all the screaming pigs out there should put as much effort into understanding Financial Planners and Superannuation as they do property.

Allow me to state that I am a financial planner who works on a fee-for-service basis, uses many non-commission products, rebates all commissions otherwise, and coincidentally owns 26 properties. By the way, I'm also one of the speakers at Steve McKnight's seminar in Sydney this weekend.

I understand that there are property matters about which I am not knowledgeable. For example, I have never completed a sub-division, but I have learnt not to squeal that I do not have this knowledge as yet.

Perhaps what we all need to do, is realise that in Australia we do have mandatory Superannuation for most employees. We can either educate ourselves to maximize Superannuation benefits, or remain screaming pigs.

I would ask each of the contributors, in the nicest possible way, whether you have investigated the investment choices available in your employer-sponsored fund? For example, I have 50% of my Super in the Listed Property Securities option that returned 13.9% net in 2001-02. Feel free to email me if you disagree.
 
G'day Lotana,
I invested in geared managed funds and did $17,000 cold.
That's for last financial year.
Of course it's only a paper lose. I hope to gain that and more
next year.(Pigs will fly).
As for financial planners or advisers I keep well away from them,
they remind me of used car salesmen. One sucked me in years ago. Told me his comission was only 3 1/2 %. He didn't tell me that was for the entire length of the investment-- fifteen years.
If you read the Sydney Morning Herald on Wednesdays, in the Money section, you'll find all the info. you will ever need to know
to invest in managed funds. They are also rated, best five star
down to nothing.
Other days for shares.
Bruce G.
 
fgayton,
I gotta tell ya, that's the best thing I have read in a long time on this forum. It never ceases to amaze me how people will throw the responsibility for their investment future into someone else's hands. People, you are responsible for your super. Okay, it gets invested with a certain group. Whatever. Do the best with what you have in front of you.
You are in control of your future. If you want to cop out and whinge and moan while sitting on your bums doing nothing about the situation, then you have no right to sympathy. If you don't like the returns you are getting from your super, do a little research, learn about super and start getting the returns you would like.
Okay, I know what youse are saying. It's not that simple I don't have control. I can't do this, I can't do that, blah blah blah. Excuses aren't going to get you better returns. Why are you here? Why do any of you read this forum, read books and invest in property? Cause you want a better future for yourselves. There are other areas besides property that you can use to your advantage. Super is one of them. So you have two choices. You can sit on your arses complaining, or you can take responsibility. The choice is up to you.

Mark
'no hat, some cattle'
 
Mark,

The choice about super is not available to all. Many are resticted to funds which thay are not allowed to touch in any circumstance.

I have just started to self manage a small portion of mine in the last few months. I have had a lot of theory before, and I have taken a lot of effort to learn. But, in the past, I made some very bad mistakes, so I don't have the self confidence to commit my entire fund until I start to get some confidence in what I am doing.

I guess I'm one of the squealing pigs referred to. I had no knowledge whatsoever- and I found myself in a situation where I knew nothing, and was forced by legislation to put something into a super fund. So I consulted my yellow pages, and found an advisor. Supposedly fee for service too. And got burnt extremely badly.

But at that time I had no knowledge of property, or anything. I was self-employed, and forced to put into super.

For me, it was a Peter Spann seminar which started to set my thinking straight.

It takes some people a while to get to a point where they are comfortable. It's taking me a while longer with shares than with property, because I've done well with property, but badly with shares.

But I don't think it's fair to condemn people for "sitting on their arses complaining".
 
fgayton,
What about surcharge tax etc etc. On another note entirely, there was a day (until quite recently) when I would have respected you for speaking at an SM seminar. He is fast becoming a seminar peddlar. Nothing wrong with that, but don't run with the hounds and hide with the foxes;)I blocked him from my email (something I didnt think I would ever do) when I was getting invitations to life changing seminars two and three times a week. Much like chargestylers (tm) is now. Steve is from what I last hear preaching residential RE, yet buying commercial (basic good returns there!) and is reducing his wrap portfolio as fast as possible as it is uneconomic. I understand he got 'stuck' with a couple of low grade resi complexes which he would rather be out of, and he is pushing seminars as a source of free money. If he was as transparent about things as he was a couple of years ago, when even in my eyes his credibility was sky high I would have totally different comments. I have no problem with Henry Kay par example as Henry is as Henry does. He doesn't pretend to be anything else! I paid for an SM seminar (wanted to know what he said about wraps and to meet him,) and I had the highest respect for him. It has been whittled down a little since then, and I say that to explain my comments only!
Whilst you yourself are _probably_ ok at what you do, you are catering for masses. Frankly (except for one deal and one particular business I own:() I wouldn't do an investment for less than 80% CC return. I have about 40k in shares and have done OK with them, but its such a small amount of money I agree I shouldnt comment. Superannuation and managed funds are however a way of giving the masses a little to think they are being smart. The Govt has a problem and they are using clerical staff to deal with a massive problem, and yes I agree with you returns decrease as volume invested goes up - but the issue at stake is that, as an average investor (what is the average persons super holding - 3-400k?) you are kidding yourself if your return is anything like your managers fees. You mention a listed fund's 13.9% return - WOW!!!! I have owned cars that have done better than that, and several plants and boats as well come to think of it!. Super is a tax to fund the country. To say otherwise is to tell little fibbies. Fibbies that are hurting people that you should be working to help!

PS most of us have ZERO choices in super. Don't forget that! Mark I agree with what you say, except there is nothing you CAN do about forced super investment.

Been a long time since I've had a good post to attend to - I thank you!
 
fgayton,
What about surcharge tax etc etc. On another note entirely, there was a day (until quite recently) when I would have respected you for speaking at an SM seminar. He is fast becoming a seminar peddlar. Nothing wrong with that, but don't run with the hounds and hide with the foxes;)I blocked him from my email (something I didnt think I would ever do) when I was getting invitations to life changing seminars two and three times a week. Much like chargestylers (tm) is now. Steve is from what I last hear preaching residential RE, yet buying commercial (basic good returns there!) and is reducing his wrap portfolio as fast as possible as it is uneconomic. I understand he got 'stuck' with a couple of low grade resi complexes which he would rather be out of, and he is pushing seminars as a source of free money. If he was as transparent about things as he was a couple of years ago, when even in my eyes his credibility was sky high I would have totally different comments. I have no problem with Henry Kay par example as Henry is as Henry does. He doesn't pretend to be anything else! I paid for an SM seminar (wanted to know what he said about wraps and to meet him,) and I had the highest respect for him. It has been whittled down a little since then, and I say that to explain my comments only!
Whilst you yourself are _probably_ ok at what you do, you are catering for masses. Frankly (except for one deal and one particular business I own:() I wouldn't do an investment for less than 80% CC return. I have about 40k in shares and have done OK with them, but its such a small amount of money I agree I shouldnt comment. Superannuation and managed funds are however a way of giving the masses a little to think they are being smart. The Govt has a problem and they are using clerical staff to deal with a massive problem, and yes I agree with you returns decrease as volume invested goes up - but the issue at stake is that, as an average investor (what is the average persons super holding - 3-400k?) you are kidding yourself if your return is anything like your managers fees. You mention a listed fund's 13.9% return - WOW!!!! I have owned cars that have done better than that, and several plants and boats as well come to think of it!. Super is a tax to fund the country. To say otherwise is to tell little fibbies. Fibbies that are hurting people that you should be working to help!

PS most of us have ZERO choices in super. Don't forget that! Mark I agree with what you say, except there is nothing you CAN do about forced super investment.

Been a long time since I've had a good post to attend to - I thank you!
 
Just a comment on wrappers' seminars.

You've mentioned SM as pushing seminars. But I've also had cold calls from Mr Otton's people in the last week (as a result of ordering a videotape some months ago). It's the first telephone call, but not the first contact.

If the product was so good (and it seemed very good at the intro lecture I went to), why is it being pushed so hard?
 
Guys, I know that super is forced and there is not a lot that can be done for most people's super. What I was trying to say is that instead of sitting around like a bunchof whingers, people should get out and learn what they can about super, or any other investment and at least make the most of what they have.
Okay, super is not the ideal investment, I agree. I value my super about as much as the grass on my lawn (I live in a flat, by the way) BUT I don't whinge and moan about how crappy my super is. I try to do the best I can with what I have in there. It doesn't make fantastic returns, but at least it makes something (some of the time).
You gotta make the best of any situation. WHat's the point in whinging and moaning? It's not going to make anything any different. Only you can make a difference in your life. Takes responsibility for yourself, no one else is going to.
Look, this post isn't directed at anyone in particular, just at those that whinge and complain about how this is doing badly and how they lost this much money in whatever investment or how their super showed a crappy/negative return. Okay, losing hurts, but ya gotta get over it. Move on, cause that money ain't magically appearing again. Make the decision to move forward.
Do what Geoff did, took a coupla punches to the gut, but look at him now, a bunch of properties and some shares (I assume). Classic case of someone who got slugged pretty hard, but managed to pick himslef up, dust himself off and get on with life.
Geoff, not all F.P.s are crooks, mate. Okay, there are crooks in the industry, just like any industry. Not everyone out to just make commissions and get fat off the income of their clients. Most F.P.s really don't understand property, just like most of society doesn't understand property. Besides, look at it this way. You run a business. Are you gonna recommend a product to your customers that makes you money and a living? Or are you gonna tell em to go see the guy down the street with a different product which may be better for them but you get nothing? As hard as it is to understand, people have to make a living, even F.P.s.

Mark
'no hat, some cattle'
 
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