Flag Poles

[rugrat]

Ozperp - I haven't missed your point. I just happen to disagree with you on this issue.

The OP is talking about putting a flagpole up and flying the Australian flag on his property. He is talking about using the flag as a sign of respect and patriotism. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that, and actually believe these traits and pride in our nation are something to be encouraged.

If he were talking about drapping his flag across the front of his ute and driving around sydney, I would then agree with you. He is not. If he lived in the heart of cronulla I would question his motives. He doesn't.

We used to live next door to people would found DH's army uniform offensive. Every tuesday night after he would return home he would cop abuse and get his car egged by them. Should he have avoided wearing his uniform because they found it offensive?

My father was a vietnam vetran and a brittish immigrant to boot, and he brought me up to love my flag and my country and show pride and respect, and to stick up for what I beleive in, and to not allow the actions of a small few overshadow or interfer with my rights as an Australian citizen.

I'm sorry but I cannot get past the fact that anyone who is worth my consideration, could possible find the Australia flag in and of itself offensive.

I live in the nations capital and drive past Parliament house and our nations flag everyday. I would not have it anyother way. If we as adults are unable to show pride, recognise the history behind that flag and display it appropriately, then how are we supposed to be able to pass it onto the next generation?

 

[Luv2Travel]

It really doesn't matter whether their being offended is rational or reasonable

So we cave in to everything that people find offensive no matter how unreasonable. Some muslims find it offensive that western women show too much flesh... shall I now wear a burka so as not to offend them, even though this is Australia and we do not expect that here? I'm sorry Ozperp, I completely disagree with you on this one. If someone takes offence or is upset by something reasonable then fair enough, but flying the Australian flag IN AUSTRALIA is to be expected. If people don't like that, then as far as I'm concerned they can bugger off as they don't have enough respect for Australia to be here in the first place. I'm not going to argue this any further, I'm with Topcropper, some of the comments on here are just beyond stupid and actually scare me. Thank goodness none of you (I hope) are in parliament.

 

[Perp]

I'm with Topcropper, some of the comments on here are just beyond stupid and actually scare me.

Well it's good to see that you support the Australian tradition of rationally discussing differences, in good faith. *sigh*

 

[Rockstar]

He is talking about using the flag as a sign of respect and patriotism. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that, and actually believe these traits and pride in our nation are something to be encouraged.

I also believe there is nothing wrong with that RR but patriotism and pride in our nation is based on duality. This is the us and them mentality which causes conflict. The flag is a symbol, an image that some folks get inspired by - which is great as long as that inspiration leads to peace for all people. If any flag, statue, image, icon, etc promotes goodwill, generosity,tolerance, gratitude, compassion and truth then that person should use it for that purpose. If the same things are used to promote ego centred pride, intolerance, duality, ill-will, criticism, aversion, etc then this will lead to conflict and suffering - and who in their right mind and heart want that?

 

[weg]

To those choosing (and only those) to misinterpret, call people fools and referring to posters comments as beyond stupid, do you not see that you appear somewhat 'Redneck' with your putdowns and 'my way or the highway' attitude .

 

[joanmc]

If I was to live my life trying to double guess every action that it might offend someone I would never leave home.

Some people are offended by mixed race marriages - so should I divorce my husband so that we don't offend them?
Protestantism offends a lot of Catholics (and vice versa) so should we outlaw practising any religion?

If I went to live in the US but when I got there I thought that the display of their flag offensive i would leave the country as it was my choice to go there in the first place

If you are walking down any street in australia it is your choice to be here.

Finding the flag of your chosen nation offensive is nothing like loving or hating Pink Floyd, that example would be more accurate if the woman in question chose to go to a pink floyd concert and then demanded they stop playing the music because she was offended. Why go to someplace that you know you will be offended.

I believe that in your daily life you try to be nice to people, fair in your treatment of all regardless of clour or creed. So I would expect the same to be given back to me. If I went to a predominantly muslim country I would wear appropriate clothing that is the norm for that country. i would not complain even if it offended me. If it was that big an issue to me I would choose to not go there. and if our flag is too big an issue for some people then I would expect them to choose to not come here.

It has been quite a while since anyone was brought here by force.

 

[ianvestor]

many of you obviously feel that there are great principles at stake.

The principle for me has nothing to do with the Aussie flag. It'd be about being allowed to fly *any* flag or rag on your private property whether people find it offensive or not. It'd be up to them to get over it or move.

 

[tess85]

To you people who have some objection to some of us flying the Australian flag, all I can say is that you are un-Australian, and I am referring to Ozperp in particular, Jaycee, Dan C, Tess 85, and weg.

Where did I ever object? I believe I said:

If you are just flying it on a flagpole outside your house that's fine...

Wow, I can't believe I've just been called un-Australian, that's such an un-Australian thing to do!

 

[ianvestor]

I like this flag better than our official flag (and I like green and gold way better for Aus than red, white and blue):

 

[tess85]

Hmm, the first thing that makes me think of is the Qantas logo (even though I'm sure it's completely different!)

I love the Australian flag and I completely respect the history behind it. Personally I prefer the current one...

 

[dan c]

Firstly, Jaycee, before you post, please use your spell-checker and use correct grammar for a change. I am sick and tired of reading your posts several times over to have them make some sense....well, almost, anyway.
To you people who have some objection to some of us flying the Australian flag, all I can say is that you are un-Australian, and I am referring to Ozperp in particular, Jaycee, Dan C, Tess 85, and weg.
You have absolutely no sense of pride in this great country, and all you want to do is knock it, and the flag that represents this country of ours.
Do not confuse the bogans/idiots/jerks who ran riot in Sydney in the past with the average Aussie 'joe' who is proud of his country and is not ashamed to show it by flying the flag.
If you don't know why we fly the flag, then you're sadly out of touch.
The next thing you fools will be doing is protesting about the Anzac Day march.
Amy

Well done Amy, for going completely histerical.

Firstly, you don't know me, so you have no right to call me or any of the others 'Un-Australian'. I also have family in the military, and family who died fighting for this country, just so you know. I'll be waiting for your apology.

The far right Australia Free Party (or whatever they are called), the racist, bigoted fledgling political party have a massive flag on their headquarters. Do you agree with them using the flag to divide, and incite hatred towards minorities?

You have absolutely no sense of pride in this great country, and all you want to do is knock it, and the flag that represents this country of ours.

Read again, no-one has knocked the flag, just the reasoning behind putting one in your front yard. If you have served in the military and want to salute the flag every morning, then good luck to you. But there are other reasons why people put flags up, or carry flags around. If YOU don't know what they are, then YOU are out of touch.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Do I play Pink Floyd at a louder volume for the next 4 hours, "because she can't tell me what to play and I have a right to play it", or do I choose to play something else, or turn it down? For me, I'd always choose the latter.

I think where your view is an issue OP, is that it is asking one group to compromise its values and beliefs so as to stop a minority from feeling an irrational sense of discomfort. Such an expectation trivializes the beliefs and values of that group.

So consider a cultural group who were brought up on cowboy movies, and feel threatened/uncomfortable/anxious by someone who walks into a bank/jewellry store/7-11 with a large handkerchief tied around their head to conceal all but their eyes.

Out of consistency OP, you must argue those who want to wear a burqa, hijab, niqab respect that sensitivity and refrain from covering their face in public.

If you do not have that expectation, it would be patronizing towards those who wear burqa etc, on the basis you don't believe they have the subtlety of mind to adopt cultural sensitivity to the same degree as those you expect not to fly a flag at home.

 

[amy21322]

Let me firstly apologize to those people I offended in any way, as it was not my intention. In the heat of the moment, what I said came straight from the heart, and probably wasn't 'thought-through' enough. I have no right to call you and the others 'un-australian' without knowing you, and I'm sorry for that.
I still disagree with some posters here, and I will never be swayed to take down my flag because the minority might construe my motives as being Redneck, or confrontational, or racist, or whatever.
I will continue to believe that too many people, having seen the jerks rioting in Sydney, associate this flag-bearing bunch of yobbos with the average 'joe' who truly is patriotic and just loves his country.
And just for the record, I have served in the Armed Forces as a front-line soldier in a war zone, and have the medals (yes, and scars) to prove it. I choose not to march on Anzac Day, but attend the Dawn Service and watch the march locally. It fills me with pride that, in some very small way, I did a little for my country. I love that adults and children alike wave the flag as these old diggers march past, and it must make these marchers feel pretty good.
I have personal reasons for flying the flag as I do, and I do it for all the right reasons.
Amy

 

[weg]

Amy,

I don't actually disagree with with most of your views but making assumptions like you have and then attacking those whose opinions appear to differ from yours is offensive.

This is a public forum where people will have different opinions. You need to respect that even when you disagree.

Apology accepted.

 

[jaycee]

Take your pick. Choose one or the other. Or both.

This is your previous post..

"nothing except for the fact that the people who draped themselves in it beleive in what they were doing iss the same as planting one in the front yard.
I'd believe those drongos would like seeing Aussie flag in ont of hosues cause that would show them that they live with people who belvie what they belive....thei verview of what would make a good Australia..."

Do yourself a big favour and try to differentiate between those few idiots who drape themselves with flags and make big di.ks of themselves, and those of us who wish to show their pride in their flag and country. I was flying my flag before ANY of these fools were even born, and possibly even before you were born.

My flag is not a large one, is flying over my backyard and NOT in the front yard to 'offend' anyone.

Do you suggest that I remove my flag just because it might give these jerks some sort of warm and fuzzy feeling that I'm one of them? Well, it just ain't gonna happen.

I will continue to fly the flag, irrespective of who I might offend.

Amy

Excuse me ? Choose one or the other or both ? Did you just throw that line in for the hell of it ? What the hell have they got to do with the rest of your post.

I apoligised for the inconvenience my typo's cause. But I say "Bad luck" to you not liking what else I said, just as you feel that way apparently about what I said - surely we both deserve the same right there yes ?

Did I actually say no one should fly a flag ?
Did I actually say those with one should take it down ?

I just said I didnt dismiss what Ozperp and others said as non existant and acknowledged how I can see it happens.

Then you accued aus all of being "UN AUSTRALIAN"

Sorry, but I cant take that line seriously, keep thinking of a red headed female clown

 

[HiEquity]

Sorry Winston but I must first spread some kudos around - that was an excellent post.

For me, the Australian flag is a symbol of Australia. As a symbol of Australia, it cannot be offensive, at least when flown within Australia.

It is not a symbol of racism, rednecks, intolerance, right wing politics, drunkenness or anything else. The fact that these groups seem to have recently had some success with hijacking the flag to represent themselves is very concerning. What should the response be of normal citizens who love their country and the liberty it gives them? Hide under a bushel? Not fly their own flag? That will only ensure these turkeys succeed in their endeavour to associate the flag more and more with their own ends. I fail to see the merit in that approach.

Bad things happen when good people do nothing. The more people in mainstream Australia fly the flag, the less it will get associated with the low-lifes in our society and that can only be a good thing.

IMO we need to protect the true symbolism of our flag for the same reasons that others have protected our country. To me, wrapping yourself in it / flying it from your ute / throwing up on it when you're too drunk to stand etc amounts to defacing it. There is one correct way to display the national flag and that is in good condition on a flagpole. I support anyone who wishes to display the Australian flag in the correct manner.

For myself, with typical Australian motives, I can't be bothered. Too much effort and I haven't seen one with a good return on investment...

 

[Token Funder]

Just to add my .02, the Australian flag is a basically just another (if historically and culturally significant) defaced blue ensign and should be replaced by a truly Australian design.

*ducks*

 

[Rockstar]

*ducks*

Australian Wood ducks would be nice?

 

[HiEquity]

Just to add my .02, the Australian flag is a basically just another (if historically and culturally significant) defaced blue ensign and should be replaced by a truly Australian design.

*ducks*

I agree. I would love to see an Australian flag sans the flag of another country in the corner. I reckon we should just remove the Union Jack and leave the Southern Cross behind on the same background - quite a symbolic and appropriate move really.

Whereas the green and gold flag posted up before reminds me too much of South Africa.

 

[Slim Pikins]

Dear PF

The point of the exercise, was actually the flagpole.

Rereading your posts you say about 20metres!. That's about 60 ft by my rough estimate. Which is pretty tall.

If you have it that tall, I doubt the horse would be worried by it

Have you thought of talking to the people who put up those great big [sec] poles, to see if you could rig up one of them to use?

Slim