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From: Mike .


Flippers versus buyer's agents
From: Jacques
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 15:00:11

In a debate about buyer's agents (you have to scroll down the page to find the thread on "How iffy are these people?"), Robert wrote: "This debate has been raging on here about a Buyers Agent. But here is a different thought, how about taking an investment property from a flipper. Someone like myself or "The Wife" that will find the property negotiate the deal hand you the contract all for a consulting fee."

I am probably naive, but I cannot see the difference between a flipper and a buyer's agent. Both will research an area, find a property that matches criteria such as positive gearing, positive cashflow, etc, both will use their skills to negotiate to get the best deal, and both will get a commission out of it.

Have I missed something? Or is it in the way the contract is drawn between the IP investor and the buyer's agent or flipper.

One point I can see, is that the learning possibilities in dealing with a flipper may be less than with a buyer's agent. In the sense that the flipper will go out there and find a good deal, and then flip, whereas the buyer's agent has to answer to questions from the buyer. Unless of course, the flipper was from this forum and agreed to help a newbie (such as yours truly) learn from the experience.

Cheers Jacques
 
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The Wife

Reply: 1
From: Mike .


Re: Flippers versus buyer's agents
From: TW
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 16:47:42

Hiya,

You know when you buy in bulk its cheaper....

Its the same for houses....

I get a cheaper price if I say I will take 5 houses all at once, I might buy 3 and flip 2, all good deals, but my finances are structured to handle a certain amount in purchases at any one time.

Its another variation of using OPM (other peoples money) to get myself a better deal, and the other people are getting a great property, usually on the same street as the one I am buying, and usually they follow me around whilst I am doing the deals, I'm a big believer in learning to do it all yourself, even though I have really tightened the "following me around" thing right down, it can drive me nuts.

It can be so painfull talking price with an agent, and having your flippee standing BEHIND the agent, jestering wildly at the flaky ceiling in case I didnt notice it before, and I may want to use it as a bargaining chip, THANKYOU OUTSIDE YA GO, I can handle it from here!

There is never going to be a shortage of "other people" or a shortage of deals.

Apart from that, some people just like my style, and the kind of house I usually go for, and they always say "chuck me on your list".

Hows that Jacques?:eek:)

Does that mean a flipper is also a property buyer buying in the same market as you, and a buyers agent isnt? dunno....maybe a buyers agent doesn't invest in property? maybe they only buy lifestyle houses? who knows? but they got all those fancy letters after their name, so they must be pretty smart, right?

The flipper isn't so much relying on the consulting fee for flipping (HA! I might as well get a job) but charging people a "fee" certainly stops all the "time wasters" from bothering you, the flipper is looking to increase their own portfolio in the cheapest most profitable way possible . And the spin off is, the "flippee" also profits.
 
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Jacques

Reply: 1.1
From: Mike .


Re: Flippers versus buyer's agents
From: Jacques
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 07:23:42

Hi TW,

You wrote: "You know when you buy in bulk its cheaper.... "

I don't know whether I should smile or cry! :) For a newbie like me, it all seems so far away! But I'll get there!

You then wrote: "Its another variation of using OPM ( other peoples money) to get myself a better deal, and the other people are getting a great property, usually on the same street as the one I am buying, and usually they follow me around whilst I am doing the deals, I'm a big believer in learning to do it all yourself"

Ok. So do you flip anywhere? How about Melbourne? Also, if you go on a flipping spree next time, do you mind if I tag along to learn (you could be my temporary mentor...)? I promise I will shut up, listen, observe. And I'll only ask questions (I need to ask questions to learn) when the agent is not around.

This also prompts the questions: I guess you get flippees to follow you around (I would want to follow you just for the learning experience), but do you get some who will just say "get me a property" and then let you do the job without seeing the house? Basically trusting you all the way?

You also wrote: "Apart from that, some people just like my style, and the kind of house I usually go for, and they always say "chuck me on your list". Hows that Jacques?:eek:)"

Yep. Chuck me on your list please! :) But when is your next flipping spree? Within the next month or so? When are you coming down to Melbourne? I need to know so that I can pause my search for a buyer's agent.

And finally you wrote: "The flipper isnt so much relying on the consulting fee for flipping (HA! I might as well get a job) but charging people a "fee" certainly stops all the "time wasters" from bothering you, the flipper is looking to increase their own portfolio in the cheapest most profitable way possible . And the spin off is, the "flippee" also profits."

So do you charge a percentage fee, or a flat rate? Can you give an example? Also what kind of house do you go for (you alluded to people liking the kind of house you go for)?

Cheers, Jacques
 
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The Wife

Reply: 1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: Flippers versus buyer's agents
From: TW-Jacques
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 09:18:47

Oh man....did I open a can-o-worms!

You know what, I'm not here advertising a product, I've never sold anything but my experiences on this forum, and I really dont want to start now.

Are you going to the Melbourne cashflow games? can we have a chat there?

Dont stop your hunt for a buyers agent, I havent said anywhere along the line that they are good bad or otherwise, I have only asked the questions I want to know, doesnt mean I will use one, but its in my nature to ask a thousand questions, thats how I get most of my information ( other people will tell you thats why I am so damn opinionated).

Hey Jacques when you actually start to BUY something...it compounds, all of a sudden you will find property everywhere, and your biggest problem will be how do you connect the damn fax up on a seperate line, because you havent got the time to be signing contracts in person.

If you want it, it will happen.:eek:) Its already a given, as soon as it comes out of your mouth, as soon as you have spoken it, the wheels start turning, and it will all fall into place, you will get to where you want to be.

This is where it all comes back to playing that damn game of cashflow for me, its the networking with other people that will propel you to where you want to be.

People ask me WHY I fly all over the place playing cashflow, its the networking, I cant tell you how many good ideas are out there, that people talk about at these games, I always walk away with some new information/inspiration.

At the Melbourne games there will be some awesome people to watch, Brent H for starters, he is hosting the game, this guy is 17, you should try tapping into his mind a little bit, what this guy doesn't know is very little, the only thing he lacks is experience, obviously because he is still a babe in the woods (sorry Brent :eek:)), but wait for a couple years, he will be an incredible force, I love being around people like this.

What about AntC and SalP...whoa...do yourself a favour and have a chat to these two, what a team! THIS is how a relationship/partnership is supposed to work, another huge force at work.

One we dont see on the forums but I know she is watching (HIYA) is Carmen and Hubby, this lady only knows one speed, FULL ON! she takes my breath away, and her friend who doesnt post much but is an avid reader is Nilmini, she knows certain suburbs whats goin on in them, whats new, whats happening, both those ladies are almost day traders as well! .

Of course there is Steve McKnight, he came to the last game, I believe he is coming to this game as well, he is a MUST chat, so is his partner, David. I know he had a fair bit to say, I enjoyed my chat to him.

Who else...hmmm..I cant remember all the names, there was a lady there who writes her own books, she doesnt know it but she inspired me to write my budget book (I must remember to thank her)...

Look I could go on forever, EVERYONE has something to offer, you just have to have a receptive mindset, be open to the experience :eek:)

How did I get onto this?...Gawd I ramble on....
 
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Jacques

Reply: 1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: Flippers versus buyer's agents
From: Jacques - TW
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 10:06:59

Hi TW,

You wrote: "Oh man....did I open a can-o-worms! You know what, I'm not here advertising a product, I've never sold anything but my experiences on this forum, and I really dont want to start now."

Oh no! You've gone and blown my hope bubble! :) Ok, I misunderstood your comments about people following you on your flipping sprees, and you asking me whether I wanted to be chucked on your list. My fault!

You also wrote: "Are you going to the Melbourne cashflow games? can we have a chat there? "

I already have something on that evening I am trying to get out of. But I do want to get there, so this is a hopefully maybe we will meet at the next cashflow game in Ringwood.

You continued with: "Dont stop your hunt for a buyers agent, I havent said anywhere along the line that they are good bad or otherwise, I have only asked the questions I want to know, doesnt mean I will use one, but its in my nature to ask a thousand questions, thats how I get most of my information"

Well that is precisely how I am learning: I bug people with questions! And the posts about buyer's agents have been pretty helpful. I know I could learn a lot by just jumping in the deep end and doing it all myself. I just thought for my first IP, I would use a safety net, and minimise the mistakes I make! So I will continue on with my quest, and if I see you flipping around Melbourne, I'll follow you (silently) :) :)

Cheers Jacques
 
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Gary

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: Flippers versus buyer's agents
From: Gary
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 06:46:57

Looking for Flippers based in Melbourne interested in Joint Venture [email protected]
 
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John E

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: Flippers versus buyer's agents - Question for TW
From: JohnE
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 18:37:51

I'm curious, do you focus on say 3BR new houses, new sub-divisions?
 
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Robert

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


The types of properties that get flipped
From: Robert
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 18:59:50

Hi JohnE

There is no specific type of property that gets flipped. I am flipping a commercial mini storage complex, I've flipped a 3 bed house today. I know of a large chunk of land that was flipped for sub division.

What it comes down to is "Does it make you money?". If yes then it can be flipped. If no, then the price has to come down to make it earn money.

It does also come down to how much money you are willing to spend to get the best return. I am looking at 2 blocks of units that one will return $800per month positive and the other $400per month. One is in a reasonable location and the other is in "the dogs bollocks" of a location (but this will return you $800+ per month).

You also need to consider your "investor snobbery factor" (not saying you have one, but most do) it will be a complete waste of time if I negotiated the block in the "Dogs bollocks" of an area for you to turn around and not take it.

A large difference between a "Buyers Agent" and a "Flipper" is that you tell the buyers agent you want this and you want that with all the little frills on it... With a "flipper" it all comes down to, does the figures work, will it rent, is there room for improvement, can extra money be made by building in underneath the house to make it a 5 bed'r instead of a 3 bed'r.

Hope all that helps mate.

Cheers, Robert
 
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Michael Croft

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: Flippers versus buyer's agents
From: Michael Croft
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 15:11:40

Hi Jacques,

The difs as I see them are that a flipper holds the title or at least has an interest in the title and would have to proceed with the purchase if someone didn't buy it from them. But if it was such a good deal why flip it?? It gives cashflow which can be presented to the lender as income, so they can do it again or finance other deals. In effect they are becoming a business and so have to make a profit. Thats where you potentially come in. Michael
 
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The Wife

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: Flippers versus buyer's agents
From: TW
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 16:27:21

Actually Michael,

Thats incorrect, a flipper doesnt have their name on the deal anywhere.

And you didnt play cashflow with us in Canberra did you, so you didnt see the why's and how for's of a flipper ( amongst other things), Thats it buddy, your on a game board at the next game, I insist! :eek:)
 
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Michael Croft

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: Flippers versus buyer's agents
From: Michael Croft
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 21:48:45

OK TW so what is your definition of a flipper and what's the dif to a buyers agent if there is no legal interest?? The only dif I can see is that you don't have a pre contractual obligation to the ultimate purchasor.

Happy to play Cashflow and be beaten anytime. Regards, Michael
 
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The Wife

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: Flippers versus buyer's agents
From: TW-Michael
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 21:56:38

Gawd, I NEVER win the damn thing !
 
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Jacques

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: Flippers versus buyer's agents
From: Jacques
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 06:51:51

Hi TW,

You say you never win the Cashflow game... but you do in real life, don't you? :)

Cheers Jacques
 
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The Wife

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: Flippers versus buyer's agents
From: TW-JQS
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 09:45:36

My excuse for never winning the game, is I never ...shut...UP. I yap yap yap, and dont pay attention, I swear the people who sit next to me are slipping money off my pile!

I swear we are playing with loaded dice,

I swear I asked for a beer shandy not a full strength...
 
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Ms Flip

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: Flippers versus buyer's agents
From: Ms Flip - TW
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 21:22:00

Got that right!! She never shuts up!!! TW firstly you've gotta shut up long enough so you can actually play the game - then you can boast about losing !!!! Cheers... :)
 
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