Flooring experts please!

T

TMNT

ive already made up my mind but on what Im going to do but can anyone give me their experience on floorboards

I have some floorboards that have had carpet and lino over it, everything has been removed without too much fuss, one of the rooms still has glue on it which has been scraped off but still hasnt come off clean. I will be sanding with a bunnings hired orbital and floor sander, they are hard wood so that yellowy color

my original plan was to pay a professional to polish them, however, I decided that due to the house not being perfect, I was going to stain it a jarrah/merbau or a dark dark brown to take the attention away from the blemishes, however after receiveing too many bad quotes and nobody returning my calls, even after one guy was supposed to start but never showed, I ve decided to do it myself,

im going for a ULTRA GLOSS look, that looks like there is a layer of water on top.

now my dilemma is that ive done two jobs before and both even though I used gloss coating, and did 2 coats it looked crappy, dull, slightly shiny but nothing close to what I wanted,

anyway, I went to bunnings, and the paint expert recommended, that I use the oil feast watson (japan black), followed by two coats of cabots oil based CFP,

when I went to buy it, the next day, the different paint guy has said he used to be a floor guy, and he would guaranteed that if I stained it myself, it would end up in tears.
he said merbau/jarrah is even harder because you have to put it on evenly, and if it doesnt go on evenly it will be patchy, and if you touch it up, its going to look shocking. The recommended japan black is better since black hides patches. And not to use the expensive mop applicator, and to use the black foam rollers instead.

I went to a different shop and got told the deck applicator is better then the foam rollers, as the rollers leave air bubbles. as for colour, they half agreed that staining is going to be hard, but they did suggest that the feast watson Japan Black stain is a oil based two in one with cleap finish included, so the stain will go on easily and without hassle and since its got clear finish, I may only need one more coat after it.


so ive just been told 3 different stories ,and am damn confused,

so ive decided to simply not stain, and put on 2-3 coats of oil based finish to get the ultrax3 glossy look im seeking

What do I do for next time that I want to stain it a dark brown or even jarrah colour??
 
Unless I've misunderstood, 3 different pros have told you that Black Japan is a good idea and then a coat or two of clear. Right???
So that's what I'd do.

On the other hand, I'd probably persevere with getting in someone who does it all the time. I had my parquetry done in my flat when I first got it and it looked sensational. Shiny, smooth, stunning.

It was done with that strong synthetic - what's it called? Would definitely do it like that again. Maybe the guy who used to do floors can recommend someone to you and you can get yourself onto a waiting list?

Would like to try doing it all myself because I love sanding and painting. I think that a pro will give a better result though.
 
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WattleIdo said:
Unless I've misunderstood, 3 different pros have told you that Black Japan is a good idea and then a coat or two of clear. Right???
So that's what I'd do.
Click to expand...

almost correct ;)
two said black japan is easy peasy, while one who said he did a flooring apprecnticeship said "do not stain if you are nt professional as it will end in tears, most pros even hate doing the staining"

edit: another guy said that the japan black is whats in fashion but he said he thinks it looks hideous, especially in high gloss,
and Ive yet to see a full floor but from the sample, I reckon a black floor will look pretty bad......

edit: im just a bit worried about stuffing the job up and not being able to fix it after hearing of all the comments

I guess I could get it done professionally, but $800 DIY vs $2000 professionally is very tempting
 
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Floor sanding is physically hard work, even with hired equipment. It's really easy to put deep gouges into the timber that cannot be sanded out, making the finish look really, really poor.

Black Japan is not a stain: it's an old type of semi-transparent paint. Really smelly, and very hard to remove once put on.

Timber floors can only be sanded a couple of times otherwise the edge gets thin and the tongue-and-groove starts breaking away. You really want to get it right first time because there may not be a second time.

IMHO saving $1,200 isn't enough to risk DIY especially since it sounds like you haven't done anything like this before (i.e., worrying whether to use roller or mop).
 
vaughan said:
Floor sanding is physically hard work, even with hired equipment. It's really easy to put deep gouges into the timber that cannot be sanded out, making the finish look really, really poor.

Black Japan is not a stain: it's an old type of semi-transparent paint. Really smelly, and very hard to remove once put on.

Timber floors can only be sanded a couple of times otherwise the edge gets thin and the tongue-and-groove starts breaking away. You really want to get it right first time because there may not be a second time.

IMHO saving $1,200 isn't enough to risk DIY especially since it sounds like you haven't done anything like this before (i.e., worrying whether to use roller or mop).
Click to expand...

yes have done 3 jobs so far, and yes its quite physical especially bending over for the circular sander

one of the previous jobs, every floorboard arced in the middle making sanding impossible,

one of the jobs we put 2-3 coats and didnt look that shiny

one of the jobs the circular saw for some reason kept on putting burn marks on the floor

I would like to learn to do a proper job, so for the future !
 
UPDATE: well I think I now will put the profession of professional floorer as up there for jobs I never want to have.

after getting told by the first few bunnings staff that staining is a simple job and easier then painting, I was about to stain and gloss,

however then a few flooring experts started telling me, that they would guarantee it will look crap, patchy, streaky and they would never recommend it
and end up in tears

one staff member recommendeda stain and varnish in one which would make it far easier and hard to stuff up. At this point I had discounted the idea of staining because i was worreid I was going to stuff it up,

so after receiveing so much conflciting advice, I decided to not stain and put on the varnish
so I hired the equipment,the floor sander and circular sander,
We found that the circular sander didnt get to the edges so we ended up using our own small circular sander,
we used 80-120grit paper as some floors had a bit more gunk on it

the floor boards were ultra smooth and we were happy
we put a layer of Cabots CFP oil based Gloss
after we put it on, it looked great, with the shine, as it was wet

we arrive the next morning, to find the shine had gone down a bit as expected, but the problem was our super smooth floors was now like a sandpaper, litereally you would scrape your knee on it. I was mortified!!!!!

after calling different shops and asking if this is normal,
one shop said "you shouldnt be doing floors and painting in winter"
one shop said ":get some 240-300 grit paper and sand it "
one shop said "call cabots"

so we called cabots, and they said it was perfectly normal for sanded floorboards to become rough (pity no one in the shops had heard of this) and they recommended I sand the whole floor by hand,

so we tried sanding it by hand, bought some paper, realised it took too long, so we bought 240 grit paper on the orbital sander, (Big mistake) it was too rough
so we spent the next 4 hours sanding the floor by hand,

a 2nd and possibly final coat was placed today

if the floors roughen up again, I am going to cry and burnt the house down

/end rant
 
You are trying to gain knowledge from Bunnings staff......who I generally find are ex - tradesmen who can't cut it with the best of them. If they were good, they would not be giving advice for $20/hr. All they are focused on is selling.

True good tradesmen are not going to tell you the 'tricks of the trade' so you can go off and cut them out by DIY.

Your story is a perfect example. Not knowing the product, relying on conflicting advice, half an idea but night the right half etc.

Great to learn for future, but you would be better off getting a pro in every time to do a good job and have accountability if something goes wrong, while you focus on what you are good at - finding more deals. What was the opportunity cost of wasting all that time DIY, instead of finding another $ deal? $20k, $50k?

I'm a painter with a little knowledge, but I still wouldn't go out and attempt someone's floors.

pinkboy
 
My experience is that with DIY you will make mistakes and you will have to fix them. But with getting in a tradie they too will make mistakes and you will end up having to fix them yourself anyway... plus it's just cost you three times more.

Getting an ultra gloss floor is difficult. If I had my heart set on it I might get a professional to do it. But if you were content with semi gloss if it turned out that way I would give it a shot yourself.

The first coat of the poly will raise all the grain in the timber floor, that's normal. That's why you sand between each coat. The key to getting the ultra shine is to get it ultra smooth.

Post some pics up when you're done.
 
pinkboy said:
You are trying to gain knowledge from Bunnings staff......who I generally find are ex - tradesmen who can't cut it with the best of them. If they were good, they would not be giving advice for $20/hr. All they are focused on is selling.

True good tradesmen are not going to tell you the 'tricks of the trade' so you can go off and cut them out by DIY.

Your story is a perfect example. Not knowing the product, relying on conflicting advice, half an idea but night the right half etc.

Great to learn for future, but you would be better off getting a pro in every time to do a good job and have accountability if something goes wrong, while you focus on what you are good at - finding more deals. What was the opportunity cost of wasting all that time DIY, instead of finding another $ deal? $20k, $50k?

I'm a painter with a little knowledge, but I still wouldn't go out and attempt someone's floors.

pinkboy
Click to expand...

yeah good point, many of the bunnings staff are ex tradies, some just not good enough, but you'd be surprised, many are retired or just sick of looking for work and all the associated headaches, many will say $35 per hour looking for your own jobs, insurance, tools, etc. vs $25 at bunnings with no headaches.

anyway, I paid a handyman to do my floors a few years ago, as he said he was an expert, and he did a pretty shiteful job on it, so im not trusting as I used to be
 
Tim86 said:
Getting an ultra gloss floor is difficult. If I had my heart set on it I might get a professional to do it. But if you were content with semi gloss if it turned out that way I would give it a shot yourself.

The first coat of the poly will raise all the grain in the timber floor, that's normal. That's why you sand between each coat. The key to getting the ultra shine is to get it ultra smooth.

Post some pics up when you're done.
Click to expand...

yeah, if it was for my PPOR id definitely go professional, but oh well.,

when you sand between coats, what do you use? hand or floor sander, the floor sander would have torn the floor up even with 240grit, we used a tiny orbital sander and it still shredded the floor that we had to do it by hand!

here is what it looks like after 2 coats, obviously this is moments after so it looks wet and no doubt will dull down, if it remains like this,i will be happy, im more concerned of it becoming rough again, as I dont want to sand and gloss again
 

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I'm about to get 12mm AC5 laminate installed. I'mn providing the skirting myself as I want whiet to match the existing white skirting.

I'm paying them to do it as I don't want to F it up and it comes with 1 year installation warranty.
 
polyurethane! yes, that's right.

TMNT, I know what you're saying about wanting to do it yourself and eventually mastering it.

I don't think you're going to get a smooth finish in 2 coats though.
Probably you needed to do the 80/120 grit first and then a few more sandings before you started.
Doesn't matter - just keep going.

It's all in the sanding. I would try using the floor sander with a finer paper - and choose the best paper you can find. Continue using the hand sander in the difficult to get to places.

Make sure you allow very good drying times after putting on your Cabots. Try to work on sunny days. Painting is ideal in dry, cool but not cold conditions. maybe get some heaters going.

The more prep you do before each coat, the better it will look. Get it as smooth as poss too. Get finer sandpaper? Good luck.
 
WattleIdo you seem like a guy who knows his flooring stuff!

I used 120 for the floor sanders except the room in the pic which we used 80 cos it had a layer of glue over it

After the first coat we hand sanded with 24 because the tiny orbital sander with 240 Pads ripped the boards

So hand was the only way to go

Correct me if I'm wrong but the floors roughed up because of the reaction between the raw boards and gloss
So the second and third coats shouldn't react at all since its sealed?

Also cabots told us not to go past 240-280 grit as it would be a waste of time going too fine

And if I paid a pro would they really do three coats and sand after each coat? By hand?

Seems unlikely
 
Hey TMNT did you wash the boards with metho before coating, I found that can give you some roughness after the first cost if you don't.
 

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My floors I do with intergrain ultra floor in gloss. I do 4 coats, the third coat is ok and the 4th is WOW! Lightly sanding in between.
 
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