? for people with young kids

[ponyfire]

Hi
I like this discussion.
It has given me food for thought.
I beleive we should put something in place to pay for their education so that when the time comes we are not necessarily having to take money away from other things to pay for education.
I have 4 children 8, 10, 12 & 13.
I teach them to goal set and they have already had jobs, even run a business for a while, to make money for a goal.
Interestingly, as soon as the goal is reached they quit!!
Except for the 12yo who is a great saver and has just lent me $2000 of his money at 5% interest towards a new car! He was interested in investing so thought this short term loan was a way to begin.
I am also going to offer him the chance to 'buy in' to our next do up and sell on purchase.
Cheers
Pony

 

[Bricks & Mortar]

Thanks for your replies! there's so much for us to take away....I think I'd like to put $$/property aside for their Uni fund. Not really sure if we can afford all those years of private schooling. We are considering putting him in a public school for primary and private education for senior years.

I too, didn't think I'd be able to put money aside...no motivation after 6 mths. i like the idea of an ip.

I won't buy them a car (well maybe an old bomb for them to share ) or pay for their big trip but if they were interested in investing/property then I would definately lend them $ or equity to buy their first property.

I would love to have that sort of help from my family ...it would have made life just a little easier.

We've spoilt the little darlings a wee bit too much and found that they needed a re-adjustment to face a bit reality.
Designer clothes through the primary school days, semi-private high school. However when it came to overseas studies they have had to learn how to budget and live a little lean.

The youngest went on an exchange program for 9 months, completed VCE and went to uni for six months, left to find a job and now is returning to Uni part-time with boss footing the bill.

The oldest who left school at sixteen (having trouble at school so got carpentry appenticeship) Qualified as a chippy then came back an re-educated himself as a draftsman and completed his last year in Denmark (part scholarship). Seems the lack of smarts at school wasn't long term!

The middle child is doing a double degree in Geelong- six years. Last year this year. Yes he will have a huge hex, but we will only contribute on completion of the course (which he still isn't aware of). It's probably helped him keep on track, having to pay his way...... nobody likes wasting your own hard earned money. Its a bit different than if you educating yourself from the bank of Mum & dad.

Cars........ each have around $1000 allowance for a bomb and have saved the rest, the reason for this is twofold,
First cars always get scratches, dints, minor accidents as you learn how to drive.
Secondly the insurance is far too costly and amount of money that you can waste in modifications to a "cool" car is ridiculous. They are a source to get you from point A to B not a fashion statement.

cheers Timm

p.s. We both Taught all the kids how to drive at 16, Think DEFENSIVELY, think that everyone else on the road is idiot. Got them to drive as much as possible! Then a fine tunning with RACV instructor before they take the test.

 

[IanF]

Hi Lily House,

Very interested in your saving system for your 5 yr old. i.e. getting 50c for completing a number of tasks.

Can I ask you at what age you started and how did you associate the tasks with the reward?

I've got a 3 1/2 year old and want him started ASAP. Any tips?

I think its critical in this day and age (primarily because of lack of any pension and social care when he retires) that he be fully able to look after himself as best and as soon as he can. Also be as well educated as he can be and that includes financial education.

I believe that its a tragedy that so many young Australians are brought up to rely on the State and other people, for generation after generation. A dependancy culture fuelled by dependancy on instant gratification via credit cards etc, mobile phones.

Ian

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

mdk92,

I'm a product of both public and private school education and can tell you first hand that in my experience, it's not much different. Actually, my experience at public school was better than private. I might be the exception, I dunno, but that's how it worked for me.

Note that I am at the same time, vehemently anti-'formal education'. We are taught nothing at school about investing. To me, there is much more value in teaching your children about investing. Private shcool fees are an enormous waste of money that could be much better spent on their own at home private education. I don't mean home schooling, either.

I read a few years back in the Young Rich that only 36% or so of the people on the list went to Uni. Seems that it is very much a case of the well educated people working for those who didn't get brainwashed in the system.

Mark

 

[arriety]

We have primarily bought IPs for our retirement. However our first units were bought with the kids (4) in mind. We thought they could rent them from us when they went to Uni. Not one has taken up our offer. Not one went to uni nor wanted to rent the units only 4K from city in trendy area! 2 went overseas to live (one in a squat!), 1 went to country, 1 went to Sydney! They are now back and starting to settle down and we have offered to rent an IP to them (they have to pay the full market rental) but if they help increase the equity in the IP we will help them later when they want to buy their own homes. One has taken up the offer (he got engaged this year) and he's gone from not knowing how use a screwdriver to building a deck. 'Aint love grand!

 

[IanF]

Mark,

Re private and State schools (I try to avoid public as public means private in the UK where I was brought up).

I was the product of a State school. In many ways, it has to cater for the bulk of kids who are "average". With limited resources the bright kids and not so bright kids naturally get left behind. Perhaps it a test for the bright kids i.e. do well under these conditions and you will do well in life.

The thing I really object to is the brain-washing of kids into mediocricity - accept your lot in life, aspire to work in your local supermarket if work really hard.

I believe that almost every kid can really achieve if they want to and they get the inspiration and encouragement to do so (parents and/or teachers). Like it or not, as a general rule private schools tend to do this better than State school.

I also agree that we need to have more life skills such as looking after yourself, finances etc at school rather than formal (in most cases pretty useless) education. For example when I left school I could do differential and integral calculus and translate Latin but couldn't work a cheque book, didn't know what shares were etc.

I think good, committed teachers are worth their weight in gold and the main thing we can teach a child is how to learn well. The learning can be formal or informal.

Anyway, my 2c worth.

Ian

 

[Bricks & Mortar]

I'm a product of both public and private school education and can tell you first hand that in my experience, it's not much different. Actually, my experience at public school was better than private. I might be the exception, I dunno, but that's how it worked for me.

The application of the student makes the difference,
In our case we had to remove our boy from primary school because of a disruptive child who couldn't be controlled in the classroom by the teachers, despite all the detentions, suspensions etc, It didn't do squat and all the rest of the class suffered because the public school couldn't evict him.

Avoidance of bullying was the reason for picking a semi-private secondary school...... nothing to do with a better education

Note that I am at the same time, vehemently anti-'formal education'. We are taught nothing at school about investing. To me, there is much more value in teaching your children about investing. Private shcool fees are an enormous waste of money that could be much better spent on their own at home private education. I don't mean home schooling, either.

Mark

Couldn't agree with you more Mark
It took me long enough to discover it!
Hopefully the kids/adults (all over 21) can grasp onto it a lot quicker


cheers Timm

 

[Lily House]

Hi Lily House,

Very interested in your saving system for your 5 yr old. i.e. getting 50c for completing a number of tasks.

Can I ask you at what age you started and how did you associate the tasks with the reward?

I've got a 3 1/2 year old and want him started ASAP. Any tips?

Hi IanF,

We started our daughter on the rewards chart about a year ago when she was aged 4 /2. I think it would depend on the child. She only has between 2-4 'tasks' at any one time, depending on what they are and how much of a stretch it takes for her to achieve them. I try and pick one that's relatively easy for her to achieve - so that she can tick it off easily and be motivated to complete the other things.

We bought a specially designed board, that lists the days of the weeks, and comes with stickers, so its fun for her. You can do rewards by the day, or say 10 stickers in a week gives you .....(whatever special treat/reward).

The trick is to get your child to feel they are choosing the goals and rewards. For example, when my daughter went through a stage of being fussy over eating fruit, we sat down and discussed the importance to her health, and how many bits of fruit would be a 'good' amount to eat each day. I suggested higher than I really wanted her to eat and we worked down to 2 peices a day - which is what I wanted her to eat, but she felt like she decided it herself.
After a while it became a habit - and this is no longer on her chart, but just a normal part of her behaviour.

You can use it for any behaviour you want to encourage. We've had (besides the fruit thing) - tidying up her toys, not yelling, dry pants when her toileting started to slacken off etc. Usually 2 or three things at a time, maximum of four.

Also - the reward is very important to the child's motivation. When we first started the chart - she desperately wanted a bed for her barbie dolls. We went to the toy shop and took a photo of one (so she could see her goal everyday) and worked out how much $ she needed to save. She really wanted that bed so was very motivated. After a while though, she just loves saving the money (we ended up buying a doll bed through the internet so she had the added thrill of it arriving in the mail - though it is also exciting for a small child to hand over the money at a shop). She was so proud of that bed. Showed it to everyone, and that she bought it with her own money.

Another motivation for us as her parents was that we were realising that she didn't have a clue about money. We don't use actual cash that much - pay the bills over the phone, put the groceries etc on the credit card then jump on the PC to pay it at the end of the month. So this was a good opportunity for her to handle money. That is one of the reasons we decided on the 50cents a day reward (rather than, say, something like a trip to Maccas at the end of the week).

Also - to work you have to make a point of looking at it everyday. We do this just before she goes to bed. Saying that, there are times when neither she or I are wanting to use it - such as when on holiday. But even if we have a break for a while, we come back to it - especially if there's somehting particular we want to work on with her.

Anyway, hope all that rambling made sense. Good luck with your little boy, whatever you decide to do.

Lily

 

[ren-A]

Agree, whole heartedly, you need to teach the kids, help the kids but not hand them the cash

Here are some random thoughts:
- re ASG. I have my 3 kids in the funds. A 4% annual return (tax free) equates to an 8% return before tax. A lump sum into property would have done better, but ASG accepts $12 a month. Nevertheless if I had my time over, I would invest in my wife's name (as trustee for...) and drip feed into a share fund

- teach the kids: Cashflow by Kiyosaki. Passive income, shares, property, financial management 101 and fun for the family. Tremendous value

- not hand them the cash. Due to inheritances, etc, each of the kids has about $35k in a share fund. It's in my wife's name (as trustee) so we control when it can be cashed in. We've told the kids that it's their start-up fund and we will release the funds when they need it... on two conditions. One, it has to be directly related to an income-producing activity. That is, no $35k cars or $35k holidays, "study tours", etc. Two, they get the approval from their godparents. This is key. It means the kids can't just ask/nag/plead their parents - they have to put a structured argument to get their godparents to agree. All the godparents are investors or successful business people who know the real value of a dollar, so seeking approval can't be done lightly. And it protects the relationship between us and the kids (this arms-length arrangement hopefully avoids the "but it's MY money and I WANT IT NOW!!!" argument).

- "buy me a car, Daddy?". I've told them I'll buy HALF a car. What they contribute determines what the entire car looks like!

- study incentives. Anyone else feel like a walking ATM at Christmas time? "Dad, can I have $20/$30/$40 for Tom/Dick/Harry?", etc. My kids determine their own spending budget through a bonus system. For each exam mark above/below 65%, I give them +/- $1. So 85% = $20, 55% = -$10. My youngest "earned" over $200 in 2005 and a massive sense of achievement. You can modify this to suit yourself and your kids' goals: it could be sports achievement, academic, dancing, anything they do well, etc. You're reinforcing desired behaviour and teaching them that THEIR efforts determine THEIR results...

Just a few ideas

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

I believe that almost every kid can really achieve if they want to and they get the inspiration and encouragement to do so (parents and/or teachers).

Amen to that brother!

In our case we had to remove our boy from primary school because of a disruptive child who couldn't be controlled in the classroom by the teachers, despite all the detentions, suspensions etc, It didn't do squat and all the rest of the class suffered because the public school couldn't evict him.[/puote]

B & M - that exact same thing happened to me at the private school I went to. Bullying there was rife and completely ignored by staff. Doesn't just happen in public schools. It got to the point for me where I almost took ahhhhh... let's say 'extreme measures'. Note to parents: if your child comes home complaining of bullying DO NOT brush them off.

Private schools do provide a better educational system - it's up tothe student if they want to learn, but they certainly aren't the little paradise that a lot of people seem to think they are.

Mark

 

[Bricks & Mortar]

- study incentives. Anyone else feel like a walking ATM at Christmas time? "Dad, can I have $20/$30/$40 for Tom/Dick/Harry?", etc. My kids determine their own spending budget through a bonus system. For each exam mark above/below $65, I give them +/- $1. So 85% = $20, 55% = -$10. My youngest "earned" over $200 in 2005 and a massive sense of achievement. You can modify this to suit yourself and your kids' goals: it could be sports achievement, academic, dancing, anything they do well, etc. You're reinforcing desired behaviour and teaching them that THEIR efforts determine THEIR results...

We used this system, but in retrospect we should have incorporated a additional save and investment split.
Say of the $20 ......60% goes into their hands 20% savings and 20% into an investment account ($12 in hand/$4 savings/$4 investment)

Getting them used to the idea of always putting money aside for investing

 

[Bricks & Mortar]

B & M - that exact same thing happened to me at the private school I went to. Bullying there was rife and completely ignored by staff. Doesn't just happen in public schools. It got to the point for me where I almost took ahhhhh... let's say 'extreme measures'. Note to parents: if your child comes home complaining of bullying DO NOT brush them off.

Sorry you had to go through it Mark,
You post is a good warning to ALL parents.

Children don't react to such things just for attention,
(and I agree it happens at all schools)

cheers Timm

 

[sue78]

Private School

Pros
- possibly more disciplined
- better ranking to get into uni
- more extra curriculum
- lower students to teacher ratio

Cons
- unlikely to be local i.e BBC (brisbane boys grammar) which means you will most likley have to drive your kids all over brisbane on weekends for b'day parties etc
- less chances of meeting up with school friends on weekends
- expensive
- spoilt
- more pressure to do well ?

I actually went to a well known private school aswell as one the the crappiest public schools in the country.....I was a bit out of control and I think my parents made the right decision to send me to a private school. I am glad in hindsight. However, I don't keep in touch with anyone from private school....but still keep in touch with all my mates from the publc school since they all lived closeby and I spent more time with them.

What do you think of this? if you had two kids and they were completely opposite in personality. One would do well even in a private school, however, the other one just needed a helping hand/discipline.....would it be ok to put one in a public school and one in a private school? or is that unfair?

Lilyhouse - that's very interesting...a bit like what teacher's do in primary school.

I keep telling myself that I won't spoil my kids but he's only a baby and already well spoilt!! I can't help myself and he doesn't know any better!

 

[Bricks & Mortar]

Private School

Pros
- possibly more disciplined
- better ranking to get into uni
- more extra curriculum
- lower students to teacher ratio

Cons
- unlikely to be local i.e BBC (brisbane boys grammar) which means you will most likley have to drive your kids all over brisbane on weekends for b'day parties etc
- less chances of meeting up with school friends on weekends
- expensive
- spoilt
- more pressure to do well ?

I actually went to a well known private school aswell as one the the crappiest public schools in the country.....I was a bit out of control and I think my parents made the right decision to send me to a private school. I am glad in hindsight. However, I don't keep in touch with anyone from private school....but still keep in touch with all my mates from the publc school since they all lived closeby and I spent more time with them.

What do you think of this? if you had two kids and they were completely opposite in personality. One would do well even in a private school, however, the other one just needed a helping hand/discipline.....would it be ok to put one in a public school and one in a private school? or is that unfair?

Lilyhouse - that's very interesting...a bit like what teacher's do in primary school.

I keep telling myself that I won't spoil my kids but he's only a baby and already well spoilt!! I can't help myself and he doesn't know any better!

Yes It's possible. And not unfair
We took our eldest boy and daughter out of public primary into private, whilst the middle boy remained, he had a close to friend at school.
We gave him the choice, the other had to leave because of a distruptive undisciplined boy in the sons case and bullying in my daughters case.
But I think it was iimportant to get the input of the children, as they are the ones who its going to influence the most

Cheers Timm

Spoiling kids, ah that's a hard one!

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Timm,

Top job giving your kids the choice. If I had've been given the same choice, I would have been out of that hellhole after a week. Unfortunately I had to suffer through four years before anything was done.

I can tell you that there is not a person on this planet who wasn't bullied at school that doesn't understand what those kids at Columbine went through. Not condoning or justifying what they did of course, but I can tell you I knew exactly how they felt.

It's a lonely life being a punk rock skateboarder at an all boys school. Well... it was 18 years ago before punk rock and skating became trendy. It even went as far as my 7th Grade Home Room Teacher telling my brother that I was dickhead. Yes you read that correctly, a TEACHER told my brother that I was a dickhead.

Mark

 

[Bricks & Mortar]

Obviously, Not much of a teacher...
Hey, Doctors used to be on a pedastal too!
Sadly I've guessed weve learnt, there's good & poor in each profession
and we need to weed out the bad ones.
Hopefully everyone knows this too and "exercises a choice"


At least when the teacher was pointing the finger at you, he had three pointing back at himself

Timm