For Potential Parents

this is from a newsletter I subscribe to put out by a very clever 'world citizen'. He has some very interesting perspectives on what your options are when you remove international barriers.

This one is well beyond my capacities these days but younger members might like to think about it. Personally I wish my ancestry was one generation closer and I could claim the grandparents UK citizenship or finagle a green but for youngsters Asian potentials might be better.

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If you're presently expecting a child or are planning on having one soon, you should consider having your baby overseas if you have the means.

There are many countries, particularly in the western hemisphere, which grant citizenship to all children born within its borders, regardless of the nationality or immigration status of the parents. The legal term is called jus soli, which differs from jus sanguinis, or citizenship by blood/ancestry.

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I think if you're ever planning to have health treatment (all of which is publicly funded to some extent - doctors trained at public universities, pretty much all hospitals have substantial public funding, etc), drive on the roads, receive any publicly funded education (inevitable), take advantage of social security if required, use an airport, phone 000 and use emergency services, use telecommunications infrastructure, use the court system... (yada yada yada) then planning to exploit loopholes allowing you to avoid paying *any* tax is ethically dubious, to say the least.

"Taking advantage of all legal avenues to minimise tax" is entirely different to planning to give birth to a child in a particular country with a view to avoid that child ever having to pay any tax. :rolleyes:

Tax is not a punishment, nor an evil. It's the way we pay for services that we've collectively decided that we want!

I don't object to the overall amount of tax we pay. I only object to the complexity of it, some particular taxes which I consider inequitable and/or counter-productive (such as land and payroll taxes, for a start), and the fact that it's too easy for some people to avoid (eg cash economy).
Agreed on the tax angle - you're reading the thoughts of a nationless capitalist there.

But I have friends with dual citizenships and two languages and they have a lot more options than their english speaking single passport compatriots. Opportunities to live elsewhere, experience different cultures more easily, obtain employment both here and overseas with a second language etc.

It's about giving them every possible advantage n the future. Hopefully they'll gain a good moral compass along the way and understand that you weren't just setting them up in a tax haven.
It's about giving them every possible advantage n the future. Hopefully they'll gain a good moral compass along the way and understand that you weren't just setting them up in a tax haven.
Fair call - agreed there are travel and other opportunities that can be obtained which are definitely worthwhile. :)
Julie - sorry, but the foreign passport doesn't give your child 2 languages and access to different cultures. Either your parents give you that or you learn it on your own. All the passport does is makes it a tad easier for the child later on to move to the country of birth and learn the language and the culture - if it's interested in the country. However many countries are very open to young travellers and citizenships can be achieved later if the commitment to the country of choice is there.

Also, many countries do not allow dual citizenship so the child has to decide at the age of 18 which way to go & the military service question is an important one to check.

Compared to the risk & expense of having your child in a foreign country (when travelling there just for birth) I think the benefits of the passport alone are tiny.

My first child was born in Saskatoon Saskatchewan Canada and has a Canadian passport. Not because of any tax issues but because that's where we happened to be working at that time.

Now the issue is for him to spell his place of birth, he often asks why he was not born in a normal place like Adelaide like everyone else. ;)

At least we bought home a real life Canadian as a souveneer ;)
Here is another angle - I lived in Taiwan for a couple of years and during that time, i was living under their "alien residency certificate" system (ARC). This meant that i could get their public health (which is far better compared to here), but i wasn't allowed to vote, nor was I allowed to form a company and i was "indebted" to my employer. Basically, if i got the sack then i had to leave the country straight away. This also meant that i was unable to get any large scale finance.

I paid tax though and was able to collect tax returns andi must admit that i enjoyed their very simple tax system. I was on a triple figure income in AU$ and only paying 6% tax and i could easily understand what the tax system was all about. But if i wanted to become a citizen, then i would have had to live there for 10 continuous years (and not many foreigners do that).

Anyway, i married a Taiwanese girl, my son was born there and he got immediate Taiwanese citizenship and also Australian citizenship - so he has 2 passports. Plus, with me being married to a local person, i can get a different type of ARC and not have it dependent on an employer, and plus, i can now form a trusteee based company/partnership there because of my Taiwanese born son. In other words, i can now live and work there under my own name and not be owned by a company.

Now we are back in Australia, my son still has 2 passports. He is growing up knowing both cultures and is fluent in both English and Mandarin. I am hoping that i will be able to get him to go to university on the Mainland, and likewise, he has cousins and family in both China and Taiwan.

Personally i don;t give 2 hoots about now being able to form a company over there, but i am now looking for his future as he will have strong roots, knowledge, culture and language skills with both English and Chinese. That is more important to me.

The only problem though is military service. Taiwan has military service for all male residents at 18 years of age. So, it is most likely that he will renounce his Taiwanese citizenship before his 18th birthday. That is one issue though.

Now if i can just get him to become interested in either engineering or business studies..... :)

My wife keeps talking about us retiring on the beach on the east coast of Taiwan. She will always retain her Taiwanese citizenship which is good for me and our family. We have property there and here and life is much cheaper there compared to here - we could live like kings on a very small income (and not pay tax and have free health too). This is still buzzing in my mind as I see evidence that retiring in Australia is just so damn expensive....But that isn't stopping us for going all out now in getting a property portfolio that will see us into our autumn years.

Anyway i''ve drifted off topic.

i object to paying income tax when my employer has paid payroll tax - and the other way as well.

i object to income tax if the items i buy have wholesale tax AND GST over it.

i object to income tax when that money is taxed 4 and 5 times before it gets to me paying said income tax.

i do NOT object to CGT, GST, wholesale tax, fuel excise, tax on income produced from investments, superannuation tax.

i whole-heartedly object to taxing income derived form selling your time.
Some countries like Japan won't even except 2nd or 3rd generation born as Japanese nationalities unless pressured. My daughter was born in Japan, mother is Japanese and when applying for my daughters pass port was told we needed permission as my daughter was a foreigner and Australian. My better half still cringes today after my explosion at the city office staff when they said that to me. It is one of the reasons why we will eventually move back to Oz for 9 months of the year instead of 2-3 months.

gg1965, very similar situation except for some minor details. Self sponsored so no one had control over me and different Asian country ( number one for xenophobia ). I wouldn't see military service as a down side considering Taiwan hasn't been in any reportedly major conflicts.