FRIEND or FOE ?

[our obsession]

Evan:

With the focus on the forum of this 'mindset' stuff, why isn't there more mega wealthy millionaires on here.

I have a very wealthy friend with no 'mindset', he's hardly educated, he just turns up every day and has more front than KMart.

My opinion is it's overrated but that's just my opinion, everyone has one.

This mindset and motivation waffle is designed to make you feel like you are really achieving when you aren't doing nearly as much as you could be.

It doesn't happen in your mind, it happens with action.
__________________

I think the other important factor is temperament.

Speaking only for myself, my temperament has been and always will be "abstractnoid". EVEN if I was not involved in squirreling away IP's....my temperament has always floated to the top, kind of like....well, something.

That's not to say I have not trained myself well, and practiced and practiced at various things to achieve and be a means to an end, in areas I may not have particularly great strength(s).

Gina Reinhart is safe..

Almost guarantee anything I undertake, my innate personality, my temperament will be big on the journey.

Which is hilarious because Mr OO is concrete. He is the epitome of here and now, black is white, (because I said so!) and do it, just do it!!

...and yet he would never have got into investing if not for my soul searching, self development abstractnoidness. True.

PLayer!

I found Choice Theory by William Glasser: http://www.wglasser.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=27

The 1998 book, Choice Theory: A New Psychology of Personal Freedom, is the primary text for all that is taught by The William Glasser Institute. Choice theory states that:



•all we do is behave,
•that almost all behavior is chosen, and
•that we are driven by our genes to satisfy five basic needs: survival, love and belonging, power, freedom and fun

...and:

Relationships and our Habits


Seven Caring Habits---------- Seven Deadly Habits
1. Supporting --------------------1. Criticizing
2. Encouraging -------------------2. Blaming
3. Listening ----------------------3. Complaining
4. Accepting ---------------------4. Nagging
5. Trusting -----------------------5. Threatening
6. Respecting --------------------6. Punishing
7. Negotiating differences ---------7. Bribing, rewarding to control


The Ten Axioms of Choice Theory

1.The only person whose behavior we can control is our own.

2.All we can give another person is information.

3.All long-lasting psychological problems are relationship problems.

4.The problem relationship is always part of our present life.

5.What happened in the past has everything to do with what we are today, but we can only satisfy our basic needs right now and plan to continue satisfying them in the future.

6.We can only satisfy our needs by satisfying the pictures in our Quality World.

7.All we do is behave.

8.All behavior is Total Behavior and is made up of four components: acting, thinking, feeling and physiology.

9.All Total Behavior is chosen, but we only have direct control over the acting and thinking components. We can only control our feeling and physiology indirectly through how we choose to act and think.

10.All Total Behavior is designated by verbs and named by the part that is the most recognizable.

Great reading, also "A Whole New Mind" by Daniel H Pink.

AND g'day Amelia!! hope everything going really good for you guys!

 

[joanmc]

With the focus on the forum of this 'mindset' stuff, why isn't there more mega wealthy millionaires on here.

I have a very wealthy friend with no 'mindset', he's hardly educated, he just turns up every day and has more front than KMart.

My opinion is it's overrated but that's just my opinion, everyone has one.

This mindset and motivation waffle is designed to make you feel like you are really achieving when you aren't doing nearly as much as you could be.

It doesn't happen in your mind, it happens with action.

Yes it does happen with action but the point is that most people aren't wired to take that action otherwise everyone would be well off wouldn't they? What propels a person to take that action needed? If all your life you had been told that you couldn't be wealthy, that the rich are evil or bad, then it would be harder for you to take the action to become wealthy as your subconscious would consider it evil or bad. that is what needs to be overcome with mindset.

If you have always known that you were going to be well off then good for you but you are the exception and not the rule. How did your friend become sooo wealthy? what made him invest in what he did? WHY did he make the choices he did? what made him different from his peers that aren't wealthy??? ummmm his mindset. He might not call it that but that is what it is. If you have always had a wealthy mindset you have no idea how big a u-turn it is for the rest of us.

You might just call it "work ethic" or "having a go" or "looking after my future". it is still a mindset, it is just the opposite of "bludging" or "she'll be right" or "the govt will give me a pension" all mindsets too.

 

[Dazz]

if we need to explain, validate or down play our success to others to not offend, intimidate or upset their status quo of mediocrity, we are likely to be dealing with a foe.

Damn straight....of course, the response one receives depends totally if you are dealing with a fully paid up member of the mediocre set or not.

It gets kinda ugly when people "don't know what they don't know" and unwittingly discover that they honestly thought they were a shooting star but in reality were a struggling, floundering wannabe.

After all Michael, everyone is Australia is equal in every respect aren't they ?? No-one is better than anyone else apparently.

 

[Perp]

The old bloke who's made a fortune in commercial property over the last 40yrs would probably look at you with a blank stare if you mentioned the above subject to him. But I bet you he's got the right mindset anyway, and wouldn't have got nearly as far if he was a pessimist, doubtful, fearful and unwilling to take chances his whole life.

A lot of successful people out there have the right mindset even though they may not actively be focusing on it or even aware of it, and probably don't care about it when it's mentioned such as the topic in this thread.

Other people don't have this mindset and need to develop it for themselves and change their way of thinking if they want to get ahead.

That's precisely how I view this stuff, Steve.

I think, though, that why this "mindset" stuff is such an easy target in some respects is that:

1) Many of the people peddling it feel the need to dress it up as some sort of new age spirituality, rather than just straightforward psychology, and

2) Many of the people susceptible to said pedlars don't appreciate that the right attitude (can't bring myself to use "mindset" without inverted quotes ) is pre-requisite but not sufficient for success, and thus overly focus on their mind, at the expense of gaining relevant knowledge and experience.

Some people, such as OO and Player and undoubtedly many others, seem able to balance their approach, and appreciate and use the "mindset" stuff whilst also putting it into practise and learning practical skills. Unfortunately, I know many more who seem to spend years and years developing a perfect attitude, without balancing it with skills acquisition. I'm not sure if these people are waiting for their attitude to be perfect before acquiring skills, or whether they get so bogged down in perfecting their mind that they neglect the action steps entirely.

 

[evand]

OK, maybe i should put it this way. He has no conscious mindset.

He just does what he does. And so do i. Without over analysing feelings, thoughts, your past, your previous programming, your upbringing, psycho babble.....whatever. As someone previously posted.....JUST DO IT!

Oh..and he's from a working class western Sydney background and so am i.

As the saying goes "one gram of action is worth one kilo of thought" or something like that.

By the way. Great post Tracy. Kudos.

Yes it does happen with action but the point is that most people aren't wired to take that action otherwise everyone would be well off wouldn't they? What propels a person to take that action needed? If all your life you had been told that you couldn't be wealthy, that the rich are evil or bad, then it would be harder for you to take the action to become wealthy as your subconscious would consider it evil or bad. that is what needs to be overcome with mindset.

If you have always known that you were going to be well off then good for you but you are the exception and not the rule. How did your friend become sooo wealthy? what made him invest in what he did? WHY did he make the choices he did? what made him different from his peers that aren't wealthy??? ummmm his mindset. He might not call it that but that is what it is. If you have always had a wealthy mindset you have no idea how big a u-turn it is for the rest of us.

You might just call it "work ethic" or "having a go" or "looking after my future". it is still a mindset, it is just the opposite of "bludging" or "she'll be right" or "the govt will give me a pension" all mindsets too.

 

[Player]

Success may be easy, but so is neglect.

Success is easy but so is neglect. Whilst perhaps most are not consciously running these programs in their awareness (RAM) all the time, those who have the runs on the board (however that is measured for each of us), probably have the right attitude to themselves to limit self sabotage as programs running deep in the background (hard drive).

I do agree that this stuff, in and of itself, does not guarantee success.....it is one's actions that determine results and outcomes. Thoughts (and deep ingrained programming) may be the prelude or spark to lead to action; at least some of the time.

There is a saying that knowledge is power and the caveat to that should be, that knowledge is only potential power. Knowledge applied is power.

Same with affirmations. These statements are in my opinion precursors to achieving a wanted outcome; not the be all and end all. Affirmations without discipline (action) is the beginning of delusion.

As Ozperp has mentioned finding a balance between the mind and the actions it may provoke (momentum) or the inactivity/neglect (intertia) it may lead to at the other end of the spectrum is important.

My dad used to say when I was young, "tell me who you hang around with and I'll tell you who you are and where you're headed". A similar analogy is the notion of one's income (or net worth) being roughly the average of those five people/friends closest to us that we spend the most time with.

What I'm saying is that it pays us well to CHOOSE to spend (most of) our time with those who are on a similar path and in places that will lead us forward and on that activities that will empower us and not keep us stuck and habituated to negativity.

If we lay with the dog's for too long, we will end up with fleas ourselves.

 

[evand]

Michael, so many words mate. Whats all this hard drive and RAM stuff?
I think you have become a bit caught up in this stuff.

This whole motivational/psycho babble thing is a massive money making industry. That's all it is.

Jim Rohn, Wayne Dyer, Jim Proctor, Dr Phil, Tony Robbins, Robert Anthon etc etc,...it goes on and on....and i've listened and/or read to quite a few of them...and my opinion is its best to get off this treadmill mate and just get on with it.

I disagree with the paragraph below especially. In my experience most successful people are strong individuals, slightly rebellious, possibly unorthodox and often non conformist.

They mostly don't care who they are around, don't care what people think, they just do what they do regardless.

There are a couple of notable examples on this forum.

What I'm saying is that it pays us well to CHOOSE to spend (most of) our time with those who are on a similar path and in places that will lead us forward and on that activities that will empower us and not keep us stuck and habituated to negativity.

If we lay with the dog's for too long, we will end up with fleas ourselves.

 

[steveadl]

Take yourself Evan. You're successful and have achieved a great deal. I assume you have many of the attributes you described above which are needed to excel and achieve something decent in life.

If someone who doesn't possess these qualities and hasn't achieved much, one day realised they were getting nowhere fast - should they continue on that path, or perhaps try and find out some of the reasons they may be where they are and what they could do about it?

 

[BayView]

Michael, so many words mate. Whats all this hard drive and RAM stuff?
I think you have become a bit caught up in this stuff.

This whole motivational/psycho babble thing is a massive money making industry. That's all it is.

Jim Rohn, Wayne Dyer, Jim Proctor, Dr Phil, Tony Robbins, Robert Anthon etc etc,...it goes on and on....and i've listened and/or read to quite a few of them...and my opinion is its best to get off this treadmill mate and just get on with it.

I disagree with the paragraph below especially. In my experience most successful people are strong individuals, slightly rebellious, possibly unorthodox and often non conformist.

They mostly don't care who they are around, don't care what people think, they just do what they do regardless.

There are a couple of notable examples on this forum.

Love it, Ev.

Tried to Kudos you, but I've done it too often apparently.

Yeah; when I hear words like "empower", "affirmation" etc, I run a mile.

It's all simple; think about becoming successful in whatever you want to do, and you will automatically and unconsciously move in that direction in action and words and deeds.

The people you need to help you go that way just seem to come into the picture as you go, I've found, and the people who hold you back disappear.

 

[Perp]

Yeah; when I hear words like "empower", "affirmation" etc, I run a mile.

Immediately followed by...

It's all simple; think about becoming successful in whatever you want to do, and you will automatically and unconsciously move in that direction in action and words and deeds.

A summary of exactly what those guys are selling... It amused me, anyway.

It's the "automatically" that I find so objectionable, and I would have thought that you'd agree that it's anything but automatic. You have to DO something, too. Like do due diligence on businesses, manage investments, and all the stuff that you do.

 

[Player]

Take yourself Evan. You're successful and have achieved a great deal. I assume you have many of the attributes you described above which are needed to excel and achieve something decent in life.

If someone who doesn't possess these qualities and hasn't achieved much, one day realised they were getting nowhere fast - should they continue on that path, or perhaps try and find out some of the reasons they may be where they are and what they could do about it?

Precisely Steve,

the post and the attributes I've alluded to have applied to me and helped me, especially through times of inertia. In my younger days when I started, I just did it. Then stuff happened, and I parked.

Evan, thanks for your response. I'm not rebellious at my stage of life right now and that's OK for me. We are all different and do what works for ourselves. How wonderful that we are all different so that we can be exposed to different strategies and ideas and inspirations.

My posts have resonated with some and become objectioned by some. Fantastic, healthy debate can ensue

That's what this forum's about.....it's a public space for public ideas and discussion.

Thanks for your input

 

[our obsession]

....great thread for temperament (study) differences in action.

Temperament being the observable traits, the communication habits, recurring patterns, characteristic attitudes, values, talents. Operative word: "observable".

What we say and what we do.

Brilliant little people study. Thankyou everyone.

 

[evand]

I get your point and yes they should change if they want to achieve something. But they would probably do it anyway, without buying endless products, listening to guru's audio books, paying for motivational seminars etc. Or they would not. Obviously, like everything, wealth and/or success is not for everyone. And its flogging a dead horse to think it is.

In my opinion, you either do or not do. That's it.

But i'm a pretty simple guy. LOL

If someone who doesn't possess these qualities and hasn't achieved much, one day realised they were getting nowhere fast - should they continue on that path, or perhaps try and find out some of the reasons they may be where they are and what they could do about it?

 

[evand]

And thank you... it is a very interesting thread. And i hope a few people took some mental notes.

It is a bit more entertaining than analysing the death out of depreciation schedules, HD trusts etc....

That's what this forum's about.....it's a public space for public ideas and discussion.

Thanks for your input

 

[BayView]

It's the "automatically" that I find so objectionable, and I would have thought that you'd agree that it's anything but automatic. You have to DO something, too. Like do due diligence on businesses, manage investments, and all the stuff that you do.

Just speaking from experience, Oz.

I agree; you have to DO something, but this has always happened for me.

Don't get me wrong; I've been as lazy as everyone else at times, but not for very long, and I prefer to be doing than dreaming.

All my life, I've found that if I have a thought about something that I wanted to do in the future - and I'm not talking about doing something wildly improbable to achieve such as become PM of Australia etc or richer than Kerry Packer etc.

I'm taking about normal life things such as; I want to make sure I pass VCE, or I want to paint the house, I want to buy an IP, I want to ride my bike for an hour today, and so on.

My hardest achievement was becoming a golf pro, but it never seemed hard; it was a target I had set in my head and suddenly I found myself going about doing what was needed to get there.

The thought then prompts the action; I think; "well...what do I need to do to get there?"

Then, the actions begin. This is what I mean by automatic. You look back and find you have unconsciously moved towards the goal you thought about through the actions that followed.

The diff between me and those life coach gurus is it's not a conscious thinking process, prompted by endless seminars and motivation sessions.

It's....automatic.

 

[steveadl]

But they would probably do it anyway, without buying endless products, listening to guru's audio books, paying for motivational seminars etc. Or they would not. Obviously, like everything, wealth and/or success is not for everyone. And its flogging a dead horse to think it is.

In my opinion, you either do or not do. That's it.

But i'm a pretty simple guy. LOL

Agree entirely. I think it does get taken too far by a lot of those seminars and promoters like Anthony Robbins etc (sorry to people who like him). I've never gone in for the "ra ra" stuff. I started on my path well before I started reading the occasional book on the subject - but I do still find it interesting. Never been to any seminars myself.

If "ra ra" is what it takes for some people to take action then it's worth it for them. Unfortunately I've also seen people get carried away with these seminars then still go nowhere - and that's where the attitude you're talking about has to come into play. All the seminars in the world won't help if you're not changing your thinking or taking action.

 

[joanmc]

Just speaking from experience, Oz.

The thought then prompts the action; I think; "well...what do I need to do to get there?"

that is what I call mindset. the THOUGHT propmting action. your body didn't just jump out of bed at 5 am and drive itself to the golf range with you still snoring ????

I think we are all talking about the same thing just looking at it from different sides. one looks at it with emphasis on the thought BEFORE the action and the others place the emphasis on the action AFTER the thought.

It is still thought=>action. the two together is what gets us where we are going. I can understand why you may want to bag seminars etc but I didn't player was extolling the benefits or otherwise of a seminar or particular guru, he was talking about mindset.

Yes, there are people who make money out of seminars about mindset but that doesn't make having a positive mindset a bad thing anymore than a seminar about investing makes investing a bad thing.

I am loving this thread
sorry I am not good at doing the quote thingy, I was quoting Bayview

 

[our obsession]

Steve:

Never been to any seminars myself.

Nor me, apart from seminars for work, uni stuff etc, but never done a wealth seminar as such. The funny thing is you know I am a doer...Initially I did learn (book J.Somers/S.McKnight) about investing, just to nail some basics, but never was in any doubt I was itchin' to get out there and buy and build my little heart out. I figured I'd learn the rest as I went.

I love to read, but probably do a lot of networking with ALL kinds of folks. From all streams and all walks of life/cultures.

From the concrete personality types I get good tips on practical stuff, they are usually older, wise, seen a thing or two...so kind and generous with their time, to not only talk about but SHOW how....

From the other abstractnoids we share the fuzzy wuzzies, again people so generous with time and stuff they have picked up over years.

It is self development for me, being the best I possibly can be, having so many interests in stuff I cannot begin to list here, creating my own wealth is just a small part of that, successful and fun, growing...but is one part of my life.

 

[BayView]

Yes, there are people who make money out of seminars about mindset but that doesn't make having a positive mindset a bad thing anymore than a seminar about investing makes investing a bad thing.

I am loving this thread
sorry I am not good at doing the quote thingy, I was quoting Bayview

I agree; it's all about mindset, and we were saying in our crude way that you don't need to spend thousands on a slick seminar with all the techno-babble words to find that out.

It all started in Yankville, and has spread to here, and they are the Universe champions at believing that they need to spend half their lives under therapy, or guidance of some sort to improve their lives and not have to do it themselves. Otherwise, why would Dr.Phil be a zillionaire?

Just reading "Think and Grow Rich" and "The Richest Man in Babylon" will get you there. A few RK and Jan Somers, or Marg Lomas books will help too if you want something more specific about r/e.

To do the quotes; hold down the left click on the mouse and highlight the section you want to quote, and then move the cursor up to the icons at the top of the post. The third one from the right is the quote tags icon - looks like a "speech bubble" with an arrow (like you see in comics) and is shaped like a sheet of paper with a bit of writing on it, coloured yellow.

After a bit of fiddling you'll get it.

 

[Perp]

To do the quotes; hold down the left click on the mouse and highlight the section you want to quote, and then move the cursor up to the icons at the top of the post. The third one from the right is the quote tags icon - looks like a "speech bubble" with an arrow (like you see in comics) and is shaped like a sheet of paper with a bit of writing on it, coloured yellow.

Or you could do it the easy way...

When you're looking at the list of posts - before you've done anything to post a reply - you'll see that there are three boxes to the bottom right of each message.

Select the first button, "Quote", and you will be able to reply to that particular message only. (You can trim the text between the quote tags to the bit that's relevant, instead of leaving the whole message in there - and I'd encourage you to do that.)

If you select the button immediately to the right - "Multi-quote this message", then you can select as many of the previous messages that you want to quote (just click this second button next to each message), then when you've finished selecting, hit the regular "Post reply" button and you'll see that all those messages are quoted, and you can then trim them (again, to the relevant bits) and add your own comments.

The third of those three boxes is "Quick reply" and allows you to reply in the same window, but without any formatting or smilies provided.