Garage has to be set back by a meter rule

Discussion in 'Adding Value' started by Fisher, 23rd Jan, 2014.

  1. Fisher

    Fisher Member

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    Hi,

    I am planning to build a new house and a granny flat. They recently passed a new law requiring garages to be set back by 1 meter from the house frontage, so to make sure the garage door "does not dominate the building" and to improve the overall look of the new house. I am going through a DA, so I may be able to deviate from some rules if I manage to provide a good argument for it.

    What I want to do is to bring garage forward by 1 meter from the house frontage, not backwards. My reasons for that are:
    - I want to preserve more of the backyard
    - My lot is sloping away from the road, which makes it more expensive to build if I have to build further from the road.
    - I am on a corner block and my block is irregular shape (sometimes irregular shaped blocks allow you to get some "discounts" from the council)
    - It is a small quiet street with only 3 houses on this side of the street, so not many people will see it
    - There is very dense plantation on the side where the other two houses are, so even fewer people will see it
    - I am happy to use some shrubs to disguise the other side
    - Nearly all of the houses on the street have the garage either in line with the building or coming forward from the building line.
    - My lot is very wide and not very deep, so every meter of depth counts and given it is so wide, there is no way that the 6 meter wide garage door would dominate a 19 meter wide building
    - I simply believe it is a stupid law and the government should pay people compensation for intervening so much with the design of their houses.

    This is the link to the picture of my lot with the desired footprint of the building.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/roustam/12100202736/

    What do you think my chances are of getting to build it my way? What would be a valid reason to convince the council to make an exception from the rule? I am in Ryde, NSW

    Thanks.
     
  2. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates ...and people wonder why?

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    How big is your block fisher? & what are the dimensions?
     
  3. Fisher

    Fisher Member

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  4. neK

    neK Member

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    Can the house not be designed in a way that the house faces the primary street, while the garage and the granny flat face the secondary street?

    Btw, I think a detached 2 bedroom granny flat is preferable to a 1 bedder if you can do it.

    If the space is at a premium, perhaps a 2 bedroom, 2 storey attached granny flat.
     
  5. Fisher

    Fisher Member

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    I want more privacy, so I am trying to face everything for myself to the primary street and the granny flat to the secondary street. If I put the garage on the secondary street, this would mean, I would have to locate the garage near the side boundary, then put the granny flat near the corner, which would make it a bit messy. I don't think they would allow me to put the garage near the corner.

    I will most likely be building a 2br granny flat and I can make it one story attached to the house and facing the secondary street.
     
  6. mflying

    mflying Property Developer

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    Fisher,

    you will need a good building designer that can fit what you want on your block.

    it is doable.. just not what you drafted!

    being a corner block, you will need to build along with existing boundary line of neighbor's existing dwelling.

    in other words, you will need to start building from where existing fibro garage is.
     
  7. Fisher

    Fisher Member

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    On the secondary frontage I am allowed to build 2 meters from the boundary and my garage is 8 meters.
     
  8. Dazz

    Dazz Banned

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    This false assumption of you being in charge is the root cause of all of your troubles.

    Once you let go of this ridiculous notion that as the Owner of the property you have any say in what / where / how anything is allowed to be built on your land, everything will be smooth sailing from there on in.

    You're still clinging to this quaint notion that as the Owner of the land you have any say in the matter. I think you are slowly coming around to the fact that you don't.

    Embrace the fact that you aren't the decision maker, and all will be smooth sailing from thereon in.
     
  9. Fisher

    Fisher Member

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    I didn't get you, sorry. Are you saying that I should just accept the first CDC design the architect gave me even though it takes most of my backyard and does not achieve what I want to achieve from the new house?

    An architect wants the job done ASAP and just get his/her money. The owner wants the best design possible. I can easily fit what I want on my lot as it is pretty big, btw. It is fitting everything and having a large backyard what is the challenge.
     
  10. neK

    neK Member

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    Fisher, with everything you have said, I don't understand why you want to build a granny flat anyway.

    Theres a difference between PPR and investment. You are spending all this money to build a house to your liking... why would you then build a granny flat and be forced to live next to people that close to you?

    On top of that, there are complex taxation issues that will arise out of this (tax is much simpler if you rented both granny flat and house out).

    Don't get me wrong, I like granny flats, Ive built 2 for me, 1 for my dad. I think they are great. But I don't think I would ever build one on my PPR, especially if it affects the design for a house I want to live in. I would consider building a GF on my PPR if site was large enough and I could place it far away enough from me.
     
  11. Fisher

    Fisher Member

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    It is all about personal circumstances and preferences, isn't it?

    The granny flat is needed to lower the burden of the construction loan and get a new house sooner. I am on a corner block and the granny flat tenants will have separate entry and will not overlook the backyard, so privacy is not a big concern in my case.

    Complex taxation? So what?

    Long story short, given MY circumstances I am going to build a house and a granny flat and if you have something to say about my original question this would help more then trying to convince me to do something else.
     
  12. neK

    neK Member

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    Rules are there for a reason, concessions are made where people can compromise. Doesn't sound like you are willing to change your design.
    Your property, your choice to do what you like... provided council allows it. Best of luck.
     
  13. geoffw

    geoffw Untitled

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    Talk to your local council planners before doing anything. They will tell you what is possible and what is not. To get permission to vary regulations will cost you in terms of money and time. It may be possible- I'm going through some issues myself- but check first.

    Complex taxation means that you could potentially lose a heap of money in tax when you sell the place. If you sell a PPOR you don't pay any tax on the profit UNLESS you use a portion of the property to produce income. It's worth getting advice.

    People here are trying to give good advice. Sometimes advice is not what people want to hear. Sometimes the advice is of no value, at other times it's extremely valuable. It's not always a good thing to get upset with people who have given taken the time to share their own experience.
     
  14. Fisher

    Fisher Member

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    Thanks for the advice, but I am aware of the tax, besides at some point, when I was single I was renting out a room in my house, so it will attract tax when sold anyway. I am hoping to hold it for a long time, perhaps until I we retire and cash flow is more important to me at the moment then the tax in the future. Thanks again.
     
    Last edited: 30th Jan, 2014
  15. Fisher

    Fisher Member

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    Already did, and they said, that the best way to get a concession is to take the purpose of the regulation and try to satisfy it some other way, which I think I can.
     
  16. Fisher

    Fisher Member

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    Yep, and the stupid rules are there for a stupid reason. I doubt, that thousands of people took to the streets to demand garages to be set back by a meter. It was some government bureaucrat, who decided to push through his or her understanding of beauty. Why do we need those bureaucrats, who keep doing what they want and so out of touch with people?
    That reminds me:

    Welcome to Duloc
    Such a perfect town
    Here we have some rules
    Let us lay them down
    http://shrek.wikia.com/wiki/Song:Welcome_to_Duloc

    The reason for this rule is not to have garage doors dominating the building and to improve the overall look. We have dozens of houses with garages moved forward and they look pretty good. Besides this rule does not consider all possible situations, e.g. wide lots, where the garage door would look very small and would not dominate the building.

    Few years ago Ryde council allowed 24!!! storey buildings on a site next to 1 or 2 storey houses so they could sell the land for profit. Therefore they can bend the rules when it comes to their interests. It was only the elections which changed the majority in the council that stopped this stupidity. I doubt that my DA will attract 3000 objections and people would be coming to council meetings and do passionate speeches against my DA. If they could approve those 24 storey towers, they would sound pretty hypocritical if they say that "rules are there for a reason".
     
    wylie likes this.
  17. Ideo

    Ideo Member

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    Nonsense.

    The original design was based on Complying Development Certificate controls. This is a set of controls that are simple and do not allow any room for deviation. But, this means if you comply with the controls it is a simple process of approval. 10 days, no notification, no refusal as long as you comply. You do not have to go down this path.

    They were designed to provide controls for the average house on the average block of land and are easily complied with.

    The standards were developed based on extensive community consultation, and many of the submissions received specified the setback for a garage as being a major factor in ensuring that the streetscape of an area was protected.

    If you want something different, then you can go down a the development application route. Because you are varying controls this requires merit assessment. This means a council planner has to get involved as you are no longer meeting the controls under CDC. If there is justification for the proposed development not meeting the development standards under the DCP or LEP then it won't be an issue - e.g. I just got approval for a granny flat in an environmental living zone that had a setback of 2m instead of the minimum 6m under council controls because of the argument about the site constraints and characteristics.

    But that is the point of the DA process. CDC is for simple applications that comply. You don't want to comply, then get a DA.

    As for the rant about height of buildings, it would have been set out in the LEP under the height of building maps. Transitional areas might have a 1 storey house next to a 20m high building. That is the way things work. The Sydney skyline did not suddenly develop over night.

    Yes, as a property owner you do not have the right to do whatever the hell you want - because if you go down that path you get situations like the fertiliser factory explosion in Texas last year. The controls put in place are at times a bit over zealous, but there does need to be some form of controls put in place.
     
  18. Dazz

    Dazz Banned

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    Thank you. You've just proven my point.
     
  19. Fisher

    Fisher Member

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    This is the situation when the majority doesn't care and the minority is ignored. My neighbor across the road has his garage put forward by 1 meter. Most of the garages on the street are either put forward or in line with the building. Would they care about council banning this type of design? Probably not, because they have already built. In fact this makes their homes unique, because you can no longer build like that. This is how the politicians push through things they want simply because most people don't care.

    When you build one/two storey house, you are required to provide shadow diagrams and they will shoot you where you stand if you violate the privacy of your neighbors when your window overlooks their backyard. Imagine the shadows of a 24 storey building and the number of windows overlooking someones backyard! But any objections to a high rise development is a rant! Let me guess why: #developer interests #big money.
     
  20. ok180

    ok180 zip zip zip

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    Do you really want your tenants living right next to you in that granny flat???


    *1:30am Sunday morning.


    Oi! Fisher! FISSSHHHHEEERRRRR The dunny is blocked mate. Can you come over and have a squizz?

    You get my drift.