Get paid to go to a NII property seminar...

G'day renzent,

I guess we all did a bit of learning with this one. Let me say that your latest post came across to me as far more honest than the first. Note that I don't necessarily think your first post was DIShonest, but more, that it didn't tell the WHOLE truth. At least, now, I understand where you are coming from.

My first thoughts had been that someone was paying someone far more than $25 per person to get people to go. I was kind of surprised that it was YOU that confirmed this (although Carmel - I think - had hinted at it). So, I stick with the fact that you have been far more honest with this post than previously. And all of the thread has been of immense benefit to those reading it. For that, I say "Thank you".

For now, I'll leave it to you to decide whether or not this thread should stay - you said
"Thinking about it, this probably wasn't the best forum to post this offer on considering the anti-HK sentiment, but again it's meant for starters looking for some free information at a good quality seminar."

Possibly you forgot (or didn't read) the "Rules" that say 7. If you don't want to have your deal ANALYSED, DISSECTED, and DISCUSSED extensively, then DON'T post it. - but then, maybe you also got something out of the replies too.......

In the absence of readers' requesting that this post be deleted, I will let it stand. However, you may chose to delete the whole thread by simply deleting your original post.

My thoughts are that this whole thread has been very illuminating.

Regards,

Les

Caveat Emptor Moderator
 
I am a seminar type of person. I enjoy them, and get a lot of value out of them.

I also enjoy reading information in books, magazines, and on this forum. Though I learn more from this forum than any other resource so far.

I have done the Peter Spann course. That cost me $3K for 5 days (10 hours + per days), and I learnt heaps. But I did not know a thing about investing then. I would not have had property if I had not gone there.

I’ve been to courses since- but I’ve been careful in choosing. They have been high value courses from high value people. There’s been two Spann “events” with some great value people at not a great cost; there’s been the Steve Navra weekend; and there’s been evening presentations by Michael Croft and Rick Otton, I’m looking forward to presentations by Michael Yardney and Dale Gatherum Goss.

If I had the cashflow now, I’d be looking at seminars from Michael Yardney, Geoff Doidge and Rick Otton. That’s just based on where I am now. These people present techniques backed by a lot of experience. Most are lower risk techniques.

My risk tolerance is mixed. On tax stuff, it’s extremely low (I’ve been bitten before). That’s why I like Dale’s approach- he gives very good ideas on dealing with tax- but based on solid experience.

There certainly are people who have done very well by higher risk techniques. Some are millionaires, probably many times over. My risk tolerance is rather much lower- and I don’t have that drive to be a multimillionaire.

HK probably has some very good techniques. But I get the impression that some of the techniques are higher risk. The risk is greater because of the cost of the course (I think it used to be $15K).

That risk I’ll leave to someone else.
 
I also enjoy reading information in books, magazines, and on this forum. Though I learn more from this forum than any other resource so far. - GeoffW
You raise an interesting point Geoff. There is a lot of good stuff presented at expensive seminars and people without any prior knowledge may think they are getting value for money. Now that you have been on the forum for awhile and have read a few books would you now pay $3,000+ for a Peter Spann seminar? I'm trying to guage whether it is better for newbies to pickup free knowledge from the forum and cheap knowledge from books before deciding to spend large sums on seminars upfront?

Regards, Mike
 
Thanks for the comment Mike.

I'm not sure ifI would now pay $3K (if I was a newie) for the Spann seminar (it actually would have cost a lost more before he stopped doing them).

Against- there's a lot of information around- either free or cheap.

For- Spann pulled together a lot of diverse concepts into a cohesive package. And the seminars motivated me- especially as a result of the package.

Most of the knowledge is available. But I would not have investigated it without the Spann factor.

I get value out of the forum because I took that first step. And followed up.

I post about problems with tenants, what to do about renos,etc. It's not a complaint- ever. I love it. It's a new adventure, a new field of expertise to be learnt.

As well as a source of income, I keep my mind stimulated with new ideas in a new area.
 
Thanks, Geoff. It seems to me from your experience that many people who are looking for quality information seem to stumble across the expensive seminars first probably because they are widely marketed. They probably feel at the time they got a lot of value until they stumble across this forum and read a few good books. Then realize there is a lot of good info available cheap or free. It's a pity this forum isn't widely known about. Is it mentioned in Jan's latest book? Many people learn about it accidently when they see the link to it on the Somersoft website which they find after seeing it mentioned in Jan's book. I'm sure if the forum was advertised more widely, say in the API mag, for starters, that less people would end up using a lot of their savings on expensive seminars which could be better spent buying property.

The timing is the thing. The media reports about the market waken people that the market is rising and suddenly the rush to buy property and get information is on. So the savings which should be used to buy property is spent instead on expensive seminars leaving the person in the situation where they may find it difficult to scratch up the deposit necessary to buy a property.

I bought my first property after reading Jan's books and then bought my second property after reading Fred Johnson's book before I heard about the forum. So I don't think it is necessary to start your education with expensive seminars.

Regards, Mike
 
Originally posted by renzent
OK- that stirred up a bit of a hornets nest.
I repeat- I am not affiliated with NII.
As Carmel said, the company is willing to give out $250 for qualified leads. After tax, and splitting between my Platinum Club friend and myself it's worthwhile for me to offer people $15 to attend and $25 for their friends.
This MLM type thing has nothing to do with NII apart from the $250 referral fee. They have nothing to do with the $15/$25 'hooks'. That's just my attempt at being entrepreneurial.
It was intended for people who were interested in attending a NII property seminar anyway (I guess this wouldn't apply to XBenX) and this way could make a little money as well.

Aceyducey- It could be a bad way of keeping your aquaintances. Friends should appreciate a chance to gain knowledge at no cost.
Assuming they're newbies of course- this offer wan't really intended for experienced property people... presumably they've already carved a niche for themselves.

Thinking about it, this probably wasn't the best forum to post this offer on considering the anti-HK sentiment, but again it's meant for starters looking for some free information at a good quality seminar.

Geoffw- I see what you mean about it being a helluva ask. But I DO want to do the course, as soon as I have that kind of money lying around. If you're the kind of person who gets a lot out of seminars then I think it's worth doing. From what I've heard from the people who have done it, there's a lot of information, and a lot of graduates have gone on to make a lot of money. I didn't want to sound too enthusiastic before in case people thought I was associated with NII (which it seems they do, anyway, so... :rolleyes:)

Sim- not scam, maybe a bit spammy but mostly just trying to exercise my entrepreneurialship (that can't be a word).

Mike- ahhhh, no. Not rent-a-crowd. Maybe buy-a-prospect.

Thanks Les, for letting the post stand for the time being.

Cheers, James

PS Sorry about post length

i think this is one of the best replies from a person posting a deal on here... no need to be defensive - just explained away

good work (its not you i dont like its merely what I imagine HK would of presented that annoys me)
 
Originally posted by davy
Last year I was invited to their seminar.
Rather than turning down, I decided to turn up to see what it was all about.
Upon arriving they asked us to sign a declaration to say that we were not accountants or lawyers. I think they must have encountered problems with accountants and lawyers that these professions are allowed into their meetings.
The whole meeting was full of testimonies from the people who did the courses explaining how many properties they have purchased, etc. And a few minutes of video by HK showing us how many properties he has purchased recently and his mezzanine (secondary) mortgage concept. He spoke so fast that's enough to excite some and at the same time confuse others.
A few days later a couple of his sale guys called me up asking me to make appointments to see their staff. I refused.
Then a couple later another company called me up to sell me mezzanine fund that they claimed has been setup by NII.

thx davy - a good summary - doesnt seem like much was missed
 
Renzent:

Friends should appreciate a chance to gain knowledge at no cost.

Oh, they should, should they? There's no such thing as 'gaining knowledge at no cost'. There is always a cost - in energy and/or time, if not in actual money. You gets what you pays for.

Time is valuable. Mine is! It is NOT a free resource to be squandered.

When someone offers something 'free', they are in fact totally discounting the value of my time.

If I were your friend, and found out that you & your buddy were receiving $250 for my attendance, & that you hadn't told me this... I would feel pretty much as I do when my 'friends' ring up & tell me they have a wonderful opportunity for me to buy their brand new MLM product. Used.

This behaviour & attitude does not meet my criteria for genuine friendship. Entrepreneurial? Yes, perhaps so. Successful? Perhaps? Make money? Yes, also perhaps. Go for it. But don't tell me you're doing your friends favours. Why not be honest with them about what your doing?
 
mmmmmm...... only a matter of time wasn't it?

Ok, how many of our 'opinions' above, are based on actual attendance of the seminars?

I sat through 1/2 an evening with Henry Kaye

as opposed to

BTW, I haven’t been to a HK seminar and only know of him via this forum so it would be unfair for me to bag him as I know little of him but that’s good marketing regardless of what he sells.

Do you have an example of what you think is an attack on the NII here ?

As for ethics? Huh? Whady'a say again?

If you're gonna pontificate about the value of your time, consider the value AND expense of all those putting on the seminars, information night or whatever you go to, put in as well!

Squandering a valuable resource? That is why we all have a thing called a BRAIN. that enables us to make a CHOICE. if we CHOOSE to go and look at something in relation to an area we are interested in, we have made a DECISION to use our time and attention that way.

The purpose of the invitation was clearly stated...... you weren't being invited to a tupperware party so how can you say it was squandering valuable time, when there was no MISREPRESENTATION?????

Why not be honest with them about what your doing?

How many people doing network marketing for tupperware/enjo/nutrimetics etc etc etc reveal exactly what they are being paid? Yet we all know we are going along to buy something don't we? We either go along and make a choice not to purchase, or don't go at all because it doesn't interest us!

OK, so Renzent is making a little on the side....... personally I think if you are gonna sell something........ have the courage of your convictions and complete the course yourself. That is called CREDIBILITY............. and applies equally to slagging the same thing.
 
Please don't jump to conclusions, NDS. You are assuming that my statement 'sat through 1/2 an evening with Henry Kaye' is the only experience. Incorrect assumption. I've been to a number of evening events (before the 1/2 referred to), and have direct experience of several people who have attended. Including the one who spent SIX MONTHS, at least 50 hours, and over 35 phone calls trying to invoke the 'money back guarantee'.

Re. the'is it OK/should one tell the truth re, the $$ or not'? Interesting issue, I'm still thinking about it. I do expect honesty from my *friends*. It is not the issue that renzent is making money - it's the fact that one is essentially mining one's 'friends' & withholding some information. And as renzent said, he hasn't even been to the seminar, so he can't say it was wonderful and incredibly worthwhile... I just don't expect to make money out of friends, nor to have them make money out of me.

Admire entrepreneurship, but something about this feels a trifle like opportunism & definitely somewhat tacky to me still. Yes, people have a brain and it's their choice. But I think there's something a tad self-serving & justifying about effectively dismissing it all as 'their responsibility'. Perhaps we just have very different standards, ideals & principles re. friendship.
 
Originally posted by Carmel
Re. the'is it OK/should one tell the truth re, the $$ or not'? Interesting issue, I'm still thinking about it. I do expect honesty from my *friends*. It is not the issue that renzent is making money - it's the fact that one is essentially mining one's 'friends' & withholding some information. And as renzent said, he hasn't even been to the seminar, so he can't say it was wonderful and incredibly worthwhile... I just don't expect to make money out of friends, nor to have them make money out of me.
I was once somewhat miffed to be invited over to a friends place for an evening, only to find out that it was a "business opportunity"- as it turned out, an Amway sell.

I was somewhat more miffed sometime later when my parents invited me to investigate a business opportunity- at least I knew what it was that time around.

So I agree, Carmel. I do try to be open with people, and I do expect them to be open with me.
 
As has been noted, you pay for everything, whether with time or money.

My view on this was relayed in this thread .

I find it interesting when ppl say "I got it for free".. I just had to line up for 3 hours...

It's all a matter of perspective!

asy :D
 
mmmm...... when i did the Investmentsource course it was 4 days, Hannas 2 days etc etc.

A couple of preview nights does experience make...................??

not sure what standard to apply if I should go to an enjo/tupperware/nutrimetics presentation.......

should I require complete disclosure of their profits, motives and ethics? or should I feel used that my friend has asked me to attend

Isn't your point that something was being withheld? or misrepresented Geoffw?

PRIOR KNOWLEDGE is the difference, allowing an informed choice

so tell me what was withheld......... not the fact that Renzent hadn't completed the course

or misrepresented..... as many amway/mlm get you there mysteriously without telling you what it is about. Renzent did tell you, so like I said, a CHOICE can be made.
 
I have to say I wasn't really expecting to have this many postings about the offer. Reading through my original post I see I should have mentioned how much the referral fee was that my Platinum Club friend was getting. I didn't have any real reason for leaving it out... For the record, as Carmel said, it is $250. After tax, $175. $87.50 each to my friend and I, and I'm giving out to people $15 for going themselves and $25 for their referees.

Les- I made sure to read the rules before posting. I have no problem at all with having the offer dissected and diced. It is fairly experimental.

Cheers XBenX- there's no point in being defensive/aggressive. Besides I've learnt a lot from, and respect, the Somersoft forumites. I've been a (mostly) lurker for maybe 4 years.

Carmel- Time is indeed the most precious resource we have. But if someone knows little about property, and would gain a great deal from attending an introductory seminar, then they probably wouldn't consider it a waste of their time. It may be a waste of your time, and that is fine. Also 'free' is, by convention, used in a monetary sense. It would be hard to attend a seminar without spending some time to do so.
I had no intention of hiding the fact that I was receiving money for anyone attending, or how much that amount was. I was trying to create a win/win situation and I'm not sure why you think I'm not being honest. I don't see this seminar referral scheme in the same light as a MLM 'opportunity' such as the vitamin ones. (I've been prospected by some network marketers before and I always come away feeling like I need a long shower).

New Dad Soon-

OK, so Renzent is making a little on the side....... personally I think if you are gonna sell something........ have the courage of your convictions and complete the course yourself. That is called CREDIBILITY............. and applies equally to slagging the same thing.

Actually NDS I'm not trying to sell the course at all. I am just providing an opportunity for people to attend a seminar at no cost (apart from time of course, Carmel). If NII/HK think that their conversion rate is enough that they can make money even while paying a $250 referral fee then that is their business. (Note- they only pay the $250 if the person attends a meeting after the seminar, to see if they wish to fork out ~15K [I think] on their more expensive course.)
If someone wishes to come along for the free information but doesn't want to risk being sold to, then that's fine, just leave it at that. They won't get the $15 but they'll have learnt something at least. No skin off my nose.
And NDS, I have been to the introductory seminar and found it very interesting.

Carmel- again I had no intention of withholding any information, especially how much I was getting paid. Telling the truth is not an issue here- I abhor the way most Amway people don't let the words 'Amway' escape their lips until the very end of the meeting about the 'opportunity'. And you have to pry the price out of them. Not my intention at all.

Asy-
I find it interesting when ppl say "I got it for free".. I just had to line up for 3 hours...
That reminds me of when some of the independent Sydney petrol stations tried protesting about oil company control by lowering their pump prices, by 5 cents I think. Whole suburbs got gridlocked with hour-long jams because of people trying to save 5 cents/L. Comes out to a $2.50 saving on a 50L tank.

New Dad Soon-
should I require complete disclosure of their profits, motives and ethics? or should I feel used that my friend has asked me to attend

I wouldn't want to enter into a situation without full disclosure of profits, motives and ethics.

Again, apologies for post length...
 
Carmel,

I would feel pretty much as I do when my 'friends' ring up & tell me they have a wonderful opportunity for me to buy their brand new MLM product. Used.

Used? That's an interesting way to put it! A successful MLMer once described it this way. I thought it was good wisdom...

Imagine you're walking around in a paddock one day, and you discover gold - LOTS of it! You don't have the equipment to take it all there and then, so you go back home to get help. Who would you call to help you get the gold out of the ground and share in the profits? Would you enlist a bunch of total strangers that you don't even know, or would you ask your family, friends and loved ones to help you? They will after all, get a share of the profits. I know I would ask the people I respected most and wanted the best for!

It's the same deal with MLM. The people involved in MLM honestly believe they are onto a winner - and sometimes they are. Next time your 'friends' ring you with their next MLM offer, think yourself lucky that they thought of you at all. They have something good (in their eyes) that they want to share with you.

I am not an MLMer myself (I prefer real estate), but I personally know at least a dozen people/couples who have become self-made millionaires through legal MLM in Australia.

I know this post is somewhat off the NII track, but I thought this needed saying.
 
Originally posted by hobgoblin
Carmel,



Imagine you're walking around in a paddock one day, and you discover gold - LOTS of it! You don't have the equipment to take it all there and then, so you go back home to get help. Who would you call to help you get the gold out of the ground and share in the profits? Would you enlist a bunch of total strangers that you don't even know, or would you ask your family, friends and loved ones to help you? They will after all, get a share of the profits. I know I would ask the people I respected most and wanted the best for!


Hi Hob,

I have been reading all your posts and enjoyed every one of them but this one is complete bulldust. For over 15 years I have continually been hounded and had more of my own time wasted than I care to think about by those selling MLM. I HAVE had "friends" who I have decided to completely disregard because of the efforts to make money from me without being completely open and honest upfront. There is a big difference between finding gold in the backyard and having to move it to a "business opportunity". Not comparible. This is just a anecdote to suit the MLM "scammers". You don't receive an on going trail to start with by someone moving your gold.


I am not an MLMer myself (I prefer real estate), but I personally know at least a dozen people/couples who have become self-made millionaires through legal MLM in Australia.

Last time I heard this I told the guy I had a friend selling a similar MLM scheme. He had told me how rich he was and was going to be. He ended up talking to my friend and we all found out just how little he was doing. Every time I ask - Name them and how much HAVE they made - there is always reasons why it can't be done. I'm yet to see one of these "self-made millionairres" and don't expect to either.

I, like Carmel, do not like my time wasted. It is wasted because I'm not interested and I am not given the opportunity to make that decision upfront. I have never solicited a friend for a listing and never will. If they approach me, well and good.

Just a minute now while I step down off my high horse.:D

Kev

www.nundahrealestate.com.au
 
They will after all, get a share of the profits. I know I would ask the people I respected most and wanted the best for! - hobgoblin
Hob, how much of the profits would you be willing to share with your family and friends in this scenario? Are you just paying them an hourly rate or a fixed percentage of all the gold they can dig up?

Isn't this scenario different to the financial arrangement with MLM? Yes, you're right, that someone gave you the opportunity to build a business with which to attain financial independence and possibly alot of wealth but I was also afforded that opportunity when I read Jan Somers' books but she isn't taking a profit of my investments for the rest of my life, is she? So, how noble is the MLM concept? Not as noble as you are making out with your "paddock of gold" scenario.

With MLM, from the moment you join the person who signed you up will get a percentage of your income. In exchange they may mentor you to help build your business and, while some of this mentoring is free, there are usually strings attached. For example, you will need to demonstrate your willingness to "plug into the system". That means large expenses on your part to attend numerous motivational seminars, buy wealth creation books and tape sets. This is as far removed from the gold-digging arrangement as you can get.

Regards, Mike
 
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