Getting a Uni degree

Long time readers know my views on going to University. So I've just started reading 'Choose Yourself' by James Altucher and came across this passage that I thought might be of interest to a few of the punters.

Note: excuse the formatting, I copypasta'd from a PDF and am not about to spend 15 minutes deleting double spacing, etc.

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I recently visited an investor who manages more than a trillion dollars. You might think a trillion dollars sounds impossible. I did. But there?s a lot more money out there than people let on. It?s squirreled away by families who have been hoarding and investing and reinvesting for
hundreds of years. And this trillion dollars I speak of belonged to just
one family.

We were high up in the vertical City of New York. His entire office was
surrounded by glass windows. He brought me over to one of them.
?What do you see?? he said.

I don?t know, I thought. Buildings.

?Empty floors!? he said. ?Look at that one. Some bank. All empty.? He
pointed at another building. His fingers scraping across his window
like?I don?t know?whatever a spider uses to weave its web. ?And that
one: an ad agency or a law firm or an accounting firm. Look at all the
empty desks. They used to be full, with full-time employees. Now
they?re empty and they will never fill up again.?

I spoke with several CEOs around that time and asked them point-blank,
?Did you fire people simply because this was a good excuse to get rid of
the people who were no longer useful??

Universally, the response was a nervous laugh and a ?Yeah, I guess that?s right!?

And because of the constant economic uncertainty, they told me, they
are never going to hire those people again. Recently I joined the board
of directors of a temporary staffing company with $700 million in
revenue. The year before they had $400 million. That growth occurred
in a flat economy. I now can see firsthand and immediately what parts of
the economy are hiring full-time and what parts of the economy are moving toward using more temporary workers.

I?ll tell you the answer: ZERO sectors in the economy are moving
toward more full-time workers. Everything is either being cut back,
moved toward outsourcing out of the country, or hiring temp workers.
And this goes not just for low-paid industrial workers, but middle managers, computer programmers, accountants, lawyers, and even senior executives.

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If you're smart, you will discourage your children from wasting their time and money going to Uni and encourage them to either go into a trade (you can't outsource plumbing, carpentry and electrical work to India) or get a job doing monkey work and save and invest as much as possible, so their futures are assured. Even better, encourage them from a young age to start businesses.
 
I completely disagree with bagging uni out of principle. University played a large part in helping me get to where I have financially.

It's worth remembering that although not all uni graduates go on to do well financially, they still outperform (on average) those with no formal tertiary study. The vast majority of non tertiary educated people that I know have done nothing remarkable at all.

There will always be exceptions to the rule. But exceptional people will succeed anyway. Unfortunately almost everyone is not exceptional.
 
VY, you're living in the past, man. The days where a Uni grad could walk out of the revered halls of higher education into a job related to their field are long gone.

In any given profession, employment opportunities are finite. In today's world, there are more graduates coming out of Uni's than there are jobs for those graduates. And that pool of jobs is shrinking as more and more work gets outsourced, either to temp workers or overseas.
 
Mr Fabulous what are your views on uni?

Unless you want to be a surgeon or something like that, it's a waste of time and money. My solution to Uni is to implement an 'apprenticeship' type program for the majority of positions that you supposedly need a degree for.

Let's say for instance someone wants to be an accountant or a lawyer. Then they finish high school and apply for an apprenticeship with firms that are offering them. If they don't get one, bad luck. They can try another time. A degree doesn't guarantee you a job anymore, either. It does guarantee you a nice big fat debt, though.

neK, I am very well aware that my views aren't popular. After all, we were all brought up to believe that getting a Uni education was the smart thing to do - you know, the whole 'go to school, get good grades, go to Uni, get a nice paying job' mantra. Most of the people I know that are financially successful didn't go to Uni. The Rich 200 and Young Rich lists are full of people that don't have degrees. In one of the first Young Rich lists, only 30% of the people on the list had a Uni education. Microsoft, Apple and Facebook were all established by dropouts.

I have pointed out before how someone who leaves school at 15 could be better off financially than someone who goes to Uni. Let me tell you, that went down on here like a lead balloon, lol. The numbers don't lie, but people hold onto their beliefs with an iron grip.
 
VY, you're living in the past, man. The days where a Uni grad could walk out of the revered halls of higher education into a job related to their field are long gone.

In any given profession, employment opportunities are finite. In today's world, there are more graduates coming out of Uni's than there are jobs for those graduates. And that pool of jobs is shrinking as more and more work gets outsourced, either to temp workers or overseas.


I didn't go to uni but I reckon your views are a bit silly. It's better to be a go getter above anything else but it is much better to be a go getter with that piece of paper in your hand than without.

You read too many story books. Plenty of demand out there for university educated folks. Just recently I went on Seek to see what kind of jobs are available for people like myself paying over 100k, guess what, couldn't find one! All the good paying jobs requested a degree. Sure you could get in at the bottom and work your way up but the fact that they advertise for a qualification tells you something.
 
Uni is still required for a number of in-demand fields such as medicine and the sciences, teachers, etc.

But, unless you have a desire to do those fields, or are a study-junkie, then there are many other ways to earn a living without going to a Uni.

You might be able to walk out of Uni straight into a 6-figure career, but a lot of time has to be spent studying first, while other folks might have already started work when you started studying, and built up to the 6-figure gig when you hit the pavement with the paperwork....and; if they've been smart and done some investing along the way....
 
VY, you're living in the past, man. The days where a Uni grad could walk out of the revered halls of higher education into a job related to their field are long gone.

In any given profession, employment opportunities are finite. In today's world, there are more graduates coming out of Uni's than there are jobs for those graduates. And that pool of jobs is shrinking as more and more work gets outsourced, either to temp workers or overseas.

The problem is that you are generalising. There is a big, big difference between walking out of uni with a Bachelor of Engineering and a Bachelor of Arts majoring in interpretive dance.

Uni graduates with real, professional degrees easily outperform those who didn't go to uni on average. Uni grads who do some waste of time study don't, of course.

There is nothing wrong with joining a large or specialist employer with a degree and working your way up. With some brains and hard work it is possible to make $200k+ within 10 years of leaving uni, if you have a degree with in-demand skills. Very few small business owners make that kind of coin consistently and without crippling levels of work committment.

There's also the issue that for every successful small business, there are plenty that fail.

Going out on your own from day one is great if you:
a) are smart and motivated
b) have financial backing
c) get lucky

Going down the professional path is a far more consistent approach, with far more consistent results. For every success story who walked away from formal education I'll show you a hundred failures.
 
Uni is still required for a number of in-demand fields such as medicine and the sciences, teachers, etc.

But, unless you have a desire to do those fields, or are a study-junkie, then there are many other ways to earn a living without going to a Uni.

You might be able to walk out of Uni straight into a 6-figure career, but a lot of time has to be spent studying first, while other folks might have already started work when you started studying, and built up to the 6-figure gig when you hit the pavement with the paperwork....and; if they've been smart and done some investing along the way....

True but it benefits of a university education is not for graduates. Places that require that qualification wont let you in the door if you don't have it. If you're not in the door you're not climbing the ladder. You start to see the real benefits in your late 20's and early 30's.
 
Uni is still required for a number of in-demand fields such as medicine and the sciences, teachers, etc.
Apparently its all being outsourced.. We could teach kids using ipads with teachers in India.. Need a doctor? Skype a Chinese doctor (mind the engrish). Want some legal advice? Might get good advice on youtube? :rolleyes:
 
Going down the professional path is a far more consistent approach, with far more consistent results. For every success story who walked away from formal education I'll show you a hundred failures.

Yep, all true. My wife is university educated, some of the people she works with are extremely average but have stuck at it and are now on very good money, over 130k easy. If they didn't have a degree and were average they wouldn't be in a position to be on anywhere near that.

I have first hand experience of both approaches because I was brought up in a tradie family and am in small business. My wife got the degree. Far far easier to get ahead with a degree.
 
I agree that university has it's place - but not for everyone.

Out of three direct experiences I know in the last 5 years (hubby's older kids) - two landed great, well paying jobs because of their degrees, the third couldn't find any work in her chosen field and now is well paid in a call centre, and does contract work in her chosen field on the side.

I think university also matured all three significantly and made them more responsible and considerate adults - all three worked part time which was a major plus.

As for the outsourcing ... I also agree this, via casual employment and contracting, is the way of the future as hiring and shedding staff in such a rapidly evolving employment environment is to costly for most businesses.

This doesn't mean you don't need your software architect or teaching or engineering or nursing degree, and probably makes a degree in your field of employment even more important
 
Something interesting to also consider. The thinking you can get ahead without a degree is kind of unique to this country. I think it is because we have for a long time had a strong economy so business has been able to grow and our trades are paid extremely well.

Ask this question on an American forum and the responses you get will be vastly different.
 
I graduated from uni 2.5 years ago having completed a Civil Engineering and Finance double degree. I worked casual in a few different jobs while I was in uni and was fortunate to have my degree paid off before I entered the workforce full time.

Now that I reflect on whether uni was worth it or not, there's not a chance I would have got the job I have now without an engineering degree - it's expected and a requirement. There's a handful of other professions (medical, law, etc.) where you simply won't get a job in the field without having completed the degree, most other degrees including a lot of the business courses aren't really prerequisite for anything.

Had I not gone to uni, I probably would've gone straight into full time work and have been able to start my investing journey years sooner than I did. If I still hadn't paid off my uni degree like a lot of others still haven't, I'd be even further behind on starting.

On the flipside, I probably wouldn't have been earning anywhere near as much as I am currently if I didn't go to uni, and I am in a position now to build up a portfolio/invest quicker and more often. Being expected to be mobile and moving between cities every so often creates personal challenges though.

It really depends what you really want to do, it's horses for courses. As I see it though, uni is for the minority.
 
I went to uni from 2005 and at one point in my early 20's had 4 masters lined up. I thought that was the way to get ahead.

Silly me. Dropped out when I learnt better. Most masters are just a way to suck money from international students.

Some fields do require a degree, for the most part, it's a complete waste of time towards true wealth creation.

Read the book Millionaire Next Door.

Sure you may earn more as a lawyer (not really), but most of your high (again, not really) income will go on looking the part, living the part, and socialising with others living a more consumerist lifestyle. Same as doctors.

Engineers had it sweet for a while, most of us dressed like bums, lived pretty cheap if you stayed away from the drinking aspect of the industry and until quite recently we earned double what they are offering now.

I can still pick up a 6 figure salary job, but I have to move back in to the country, the pros, I don't have anyone to impress so expenses are low, the cons, I don't have anyone...
 
There's nothing out there that guarantees you a job. Not a degree, not an apprenticeship. Bunnings is full of ex-tradies. There's also plenty of university educated admin staff as well.

If you want to talk about job stability, consider the blue collar and white collar workers at the various car manufacturers. It's the engineers, IT support, etc that are able to find alternate employment or adapt to new circumstances fairly quickly. The tradies on the production lines tend to be the ones crying on ACA, not the engineers.

Knowing what I know today I would probably do things a little differently, but based on what I knew 20 years ago I'm glad I made the decisions I made back then. Today I might do a different degree, but to land where I am today I would still get a higher education.

It's also a fair observation to make that most of my clients buying multiple properties are university educated. I've got a few blue collar clients who are incredibly successful investors, but the white collar types tend to have higher incomes which helps them build their IP portfolio.

Don't discount the 'institution' factor either. I've a friend who is brilliant in his specialist IT field but he never completed his IT degree. Even 18 years later he's having trouble getting the best jobs because he didn't complete a few subjects, employers want to see the piece of paper. Obviously this is limited thinking on their part, but they're the one offering the job, not him.

People can be very successful with or without a university education. To suggest that a uni education isn't worthwhile due to high student debt and outsourcing overseas is very limited thinking.

The better path would be to figure out what you want to do with your life then take the educational path that best gets you there. Uni isn't for everyone, neither is an apprenticeship. The really hard part is figuring out what you want to do with your life when you're 17.
 
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Everything is either being cut back,
moved toward outsourcing out of the country, or hiring temp workers.
And this goes not just for low-paid industrial workers, but middle managers, computer programmers, accountants, lawyers, and even senior executives.


If you're smart, you will discourage your children from wasting their time and money ...Even better, encourage them from a young age to start businesses.

Servicing a competitive market that outsourcers are creating means you need a competitive advantage, an education, mentorship, and experience are what you need to have that advantage.

The value of Uni, like most things, depends on your strategy. If you're off to Uni because you harbour a belief that you will stumble into a rock-star role the day after you graduate then I'd heartily agree with your assesment of it. If it forms part of a cunning plan then it is indeed valuable.

FWIW I haven't had a salaried job since 2001 and I couldn't be happier about that. Yes, I have a degree, no I haven't used it in more than 10 years because I didn't have a cunning plan back then BUT it did lead me to where I am now.
 
Read the book Millionaire Next Door.

It's been a long time since I read this, but wasn't the typical person in this book university qualified?

From here: http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/stanley-millionaire.html

"As a group, we are fairly well educated. Only about one in five are not college graduates. Many of us hold advanced degrees. Eighteen percent have master's degrees, 8 percent law degrees, 6 percent medical degrees, and 6 percent Ph.D.s."
 
VY, you're living in the past, man. The days where a Uni grad could walk out of the revered halls of higher education into a job related to their field are long gone.

In any given profession, employment opportunities are finite. In today's world, there are more graduates coming out of Uni's than there are jobs for those graduates. And that pool of jobs is shrinking as more and more work gets outsourced, either to temp workers or overseas.

So just imagine how much more bleak the prospects would be for someone who didn't go to uni or do a trade.

Like VY , uni has played a huge part in my financial success. I studied as a mature aged student. My motivation?...When doing a basic clerical payroll job in a large law firm in the 80's I asked myself .... How do I get the bosses job and earn that sort of income? That was enough motovation for me....That same firm paid for my education and I left there with CPA qualification in my back pocket in the late 90's after having spent a few years as their financial controller. Rest is history.
 
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