Getting Started

[WebBoard]

From: Mike .


looking for my niche
From: Michelle R
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 07:56:58

I've read John Burley's book,listened to the tapes and participated in his forum. Others are successfully doing wraps. However, I don't think wrapping is for me. Personally speaking finding investors is a big turn off. Unless I'm prepared to do dozens of wraps (exhausting just thinking about it) I doubt whether buying a couple of houses is worth all headaches of wrapping.

I would prefer to take John's and Robert K's advice about negative gearing ie don't go there. Actually I've been there, partner wanted out so had to sell. I think at my age(40 something) it's a bit late for a negatively geared port folio. John B suggests buy and hold which in my area is really negative gearing. I cannot find a rental property in my booming area where I can generate a cash flow and CAPITAL GROWTH, believe me I have looked and made many offers.

Next suggestion is quick cash. Possible but not at all probable where I live. Once again it's a boom,no ones that desperate. I would challenge anyone to try and buy properties in my area for 20% less. That is properties so desirable that you can quickly off sell in 60-90 days.

The idea of fixer uppers appeals to me.I have a creative flare and would love to turn a drab place into a butterfly. This sounds good but once again in todays market most places are being sold with their potential in the price. I could go outside my area. It's a big country. The thought of buying unseen is not me. Don't have the time or the energy to trip all over the Australia, if I did wouldn't being looking to set up my retirement, I'd be there.

I'm trying to think laterally (in circles) as well as realistically. Rene Rivkin who was recently mentioned on this group said there are three types of people, negative, positive and the realist. Guess which one he is? All the positivity in the world cannot make figures add up.

I've seen this time and again in small business. People starting out with all the zest and enthusiasm in the world. In reality we know how many make it. I know the rave about failure being good. I think after a certain age the risk ratio stakes are much higher. Any feedback, tips, suggestions, info?

Cheers, Michelle

 

[WebBoard]

Gee Cee

Reply: 1
From: Mike .


Re: looking for my niche
From: Gee Cee [Now I am a REALLY OLD FART}
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 21:52:40

Hey Michelle

Never think that even the people that have done it for years get it right.

I am just 40 but went through the boom in 1978-81

I knew very little but in my early twenties it was big $ stuff & just luck. {Made my wage 4 times over in one yr]

In 1987 I held a lot of property but also thought I could make a lot more $. I nearly went broke as interest rates went through the roof. ( Do you know what it is like making the decision whether you can afford to buy the packet of No Frills chips when grocery shopping or not?) There was no way I would ever be able to afford to become a alcoholic. I never had $5 spare.

At that point of my life I HAD to work. A overtime shift was like Christmas!

I NEVER WANT TO BE THAT STRETCHED AGAIN!

My point is that I have run two booms and yes history does repeat itself.

There are a lot of people doing wonderful things at the moment. Do not feel you are inferior.

I am probably considered old hat because I stick to what I know I can do & make a buck as well as survive. I don't do wraps, I flip a property if I can find one. That of course becomes harder as the boom gets more & more velocity.

At present my forte is developments. Even that will be come oversupplied and it will be time to sit on the fence.

Like you at 40 + I am not going to put my shirt and undies up as loan collateral for some dream.

I like everything simplified. If I am even going to go into a deal it has to make a buck. Or at least not be a $ dragging noose around my neck.

As well I do not have the time, energy or patience to do little passive income deals.

At 40+ life is to short. Most of my day now is spent with family/ social & some business matters.


Hey right Just look at the FORUM each day lately.

Heaps of postings. New whizz bang ideas every day. All making a million bucks.

In 1988 there was no such thing as the Internet. But there was always social interaction. At work, sport and parties, etc.

Everyone talking property. All making a million over night.

I am conservative now. Life is finally quite good. The years of every day devotion have paid off.

Why risk it all?

Guess it gets down to what you want in life. To me it is Health, family life, a home of your own, $ aside, investments and no one telling you what you have to do each day.

Control!!!!!!!!!!!

In 2 to 3 years time, or at the end of this Boom, check how many experts we have posting each day with positive thoughts. Question how many have managed to retire before being either burnt out or bankrupted.

Only my thoughts

Gee Cee (YES "The Old Conservative ONE")

 

[WebBoard]

Pierre

Reply: 1.1
From: Mike .


Re: looking for my niche
From: Luxury !!!!!!!
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 07:17:24

Thanks to the Monty Python team for this gem ....


Four Yorkshiremen

Eric Idle: Very passable, isn't it? Very passable.

All: Right, all right.

Graham Chapman: Good glass of Chateau de Chasselet, ain't just that, sire?

Terry Jones: Oh, you're right there, Obadiah.

Graham Chapman: Right.

Eric Idle: Who would have thought, thirty years ago, we'd all be sitting here drinking Chateau de Chaselet, eh?

All: Aye, aye.

Michael Palin: Them days we were glad to have the price of a cup of tea.

Graham Chapman: Right! A cup of cold tea!

Michael Palin: Right!

Eric Idle: Without milk or sugar!

Terry Jones: Or tea!

Michael Palin: In a cracked cup and all.

Eric Idle: Oh, we never used to have a cup! We used to have to drink out of a rolled-up newspaper!

Graham Chapman: The best we could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.

Terry Jones: But you know, we were happy in those days, although we were poor.

Michael Palin: Because we were poor!

Terry Jones: Right!

Michael Palin: My old dad used to say to me: "Money doesn't bring you happiness, son!"

Eric Idle: He was right!

Michael Palin: Right!

Eric Idle: I was happier then and I had nothing! We used to live in this tiny old tumbled-down house with great big holes in the roof.

Graham Chapman: House! You were lucky to live in a house! We used to live in one room, all twenty-six of us, no furniture, half the floor was missing, we were all huddled together in one corner for fear of falling.

Terry Jones: You were lucky to have a room! We used to have to live in the corridor!

Michael Palin: Oh, we used to dream of living in a corridor! Would have been a palace to us! We used to live in an old watertank on a rubbish tip. We'd all woke up every morning by having a load of rotten fish dumped all over us! House, huh!

Eric Idle: Well, when I say a house, it was just a hole in the ground, covered by a sheet of tarpaulin, but it was a house to us!

Graham Chapman: We were evicted from our hole in the ground. We had to go and live in a lake!

Terry Jones: You were lucky to have a lake! There were 150 of us living in a shoebox in the middle of the road!

Michael Palin: A cardboard box?

Terry Jones: Aye!

Michael Palin: You were lucky! We lived for three months in a rolled-up newspaper in a septic tank! We used to have to get up every morning, at six o'clock and clean the newspaper, go to work down the mill, fourteen hours a day, week in, week out, for six pence a week, and when we got home, our dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt!

Graham Chapman: Luxury! We used to have to get up out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, work twenty hours a day at mill, for two pence a month, come home, and dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!

Terry Jones: Well, of course, we had it tough! We used to have to get up out of the shoebox in the middle of the night, and lick the road clean with our tongues! We had to eat half a handful of freezing cold gravel, work twenty-four hours a day at mill for four pence every six years, and when we got home, our dad would slice us in two with a breadknife!

Eric Idle: Right! I had to get up in the morning, at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill and pay millowner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our dad would kill us and dance about on our graves, singing Hallelujah!

Michael Palin: Aah. And you trying to tell the young people of today that, and they won't believe you!

All: No, no they won't!


I just love this skit,

Pierre

 

[WebBoard]

Michelle R

Reply: 1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: looking for my niche
From: Michelle R
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 08:32:01

Thanks Gee Cee, If you're an old fart then I'm an older one, I'll be 45 in the spring.

I appreciate that you can understand where I'm at. I'm at a place in my life where I don't have to work too hard. I have a small retail business. I've had this business for over ten years. Mostly I enjoy what I do. I've owned a few houses over the years and each time I've sold I've decided later that I shouldn't have.

I believe apart from buying my first home I've made some poor real estate decisions. These properties were my home so I never went in with the view of making money, hence I never did. In fact the idea that I could making money from real estate did not really interest me until a couple of years ago. I'm running out of time to make mistakes and need to get my retirement plan into gear.

Recently I lost money in wholesaling. It was more than I could afford to lose. Last year my partner encouraged me to sell my unit, I had built two and sold one off. He felt it didn't have good capital growth because of the heavy unit development in my street. I was just about mortgage free. Luckily it sold for the advertised price for the unit (I think I have okay taste).

I bought a block of land and found out after the plans were drawn up just how much building costs had increased. I've got a great house but I'm in more debt over it. I could sell and scale down but I won't. It's really nice here, ocean views. Thanks for listening. I think you can see where I'm at. I realise not all real estate stories are good ones. Life can be like that, people often only tell you about the good ones. I'm watching, listening, asking a few questions and hopefully learning.

Cheers Michelle

 

[WebBoard]

Sim

Reply: 1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: looking for my niche
From: Sim'
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 21:29:08

Good to hear your story !

I found Jan Somers book "Building Wealth, Story by Story" to be full of very interesting anecdotes, both good and bad, about property investing. Tells a lot about the mistakes some people make... I learned a lot !

Sim'

 

[WebBoard]

Gee Cee

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: looking for my niche
From: Gee Cee
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 09:55:55

Did ya read story 13?

 

[WebBoard]

Robert

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: looking for my niche
From: Robert
Date: 15 Feb 2001
Time: 14:10:51

Hiya

Story 13 and 97 in Jans book is Gee Cee.....

 

[WebBoard]

The Wife

Reply: 2
From: Mike .


Re: looking for my niche
From: TW
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 08:51:27

Hi Michelle,

You are sounding a little tired, and battle weary.

Sometimes when you are "houseburnt" you need to stop looking at houses, stop making offers, have nothing to do with it for a while, and just have a change of scene.

You answered all your own questions, and you know what you want to do, which is the reno's, but you're sounding too houseburnt to even start a new search for the cheap renovater.

Have a break, then when your feeling a little bit better, buy yourself some house renovation type mags, and re-ignite your enthusiasm. People who can do their own reno's are very clever and artistic, and they make a lot of money.

When your feeling refreshed, you will be able to see the cheaper priced homes, maybe in a different area than you are used to.

I know a lady who is renovating a "weekend house" its 2 hours drive from her, she is loving it, and she will fetch a high price for the work she is doing, it is an inconvenience for her at times, but the point is, she believes in what she is doing, and she is enjoying it, and the figures stack up, she will make money.

She is also very confident in her ability and her new niche. What's the point of doing property investment and having a miserable time at it? She could make a lot more money if she did it inner city, but she is ENJOYING herself while investing, you only live once, you may not make as much money as the next person, but you had a hell of a fun time, doing what you did.

It's not the destination, it's the ride!

 

[WebBoard]

Gee Cee

Reply: 2.1
From: Mike .


Re: looking for my niche
From: Gee Cee Know The Feeling Tis only Money
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 21:05:56

God you can get that way.

Past six months re-financed everything to save around $20k in cashflow.

Built 2 developments and sold. Negotiated the new car.

Lined up some blocks to build on & flog) (Cashflow Bread & Butter stuff but better than climbing power poles at 2am in the middle of August)

Charting when to dump some of the lower properties and go into cash.

Ready for a buying spree at a future date. Pick up some places that have been bought on the peak of the boom.

And in between nappie changes & playgroup.

Just as well we have mobile phones.


Gee Cee

P.S. Think I need a week or two on the Whitsundays

 

[WebBoard]

Michelle R

Reply: 2.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: looking for my niche
From: Michelle R
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 14:57:26

Thanks TW, "houseburnt" you could be right. I do appreciate your encouraging feedback. Reno's do appear the most likely choice. Cheers Michelle

 

[WebBoard]

Sim

Reply: 2.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: looking for my niche
From: Sim'
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 09:39:44

Maybe we should start calling you "The Mother" (of members of the forum that is)... such thoughtful, caring advice could only come from one's mother. Brings a tear to my eye!

What would we do without your voice of reason, TW ? You are an inspiration to us all.

Thankyou. Sim'

 

[WebBoard]

Jeanette

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: looking for my niche
From: Jeanette
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 08:18:35

What state/city are you in ?

 

[WebBoard]

Michelle R

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: looking for my niche
From: Michelle R
Date: 13 Feb 2001
Time: 15:08:32

Hi Jeanette, Coastal Northern N.S.W.Not far from the border.

 

[WebBoard]

Jeanette

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: looking for my niche
From: Jeanette
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 06:57:53

Hi Michelle

Some months ago a friend went to do a course at Armidale University and I told her to bring back some local newspapers so I could see what was happening there. In the newspapers were a few small blocks of ground floor units that were being used as student accommodation and were cashflow positive. From memory, they were VERY cheap - something like 5 bedsitter units for under $200,000. That might be an idea for you.

The trouble is I've found, that I can't find any of these properties for sale on the internet. It seems to be that they are only actually advertised in the local papers up there. But you might be close enough to order the papers from that area in to your local newsagent. This was an idea I had for myself at one stage but I thought 'No - too lazy to drive up there and have a look'.

 

[WebBoard]

Michelle R

Reply: 2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: looking for my niche
From: Michelle R
Date: 14 Feb 2001
Time: 11:40:57

Hi Jeanette, I'm actually in Byron Bay. Most people know it's a fantastic place. It's boom time at present. Every town in the Byron area. Lennox Head, Bangalow, Mullumbimby, Brunswick Heads, Ocean Shores have all gone up, it's a sellers market.

The first home buyers and investors grabbed just about everything in the lower end of the market. Now the middle is the bottom! In Byron the lower end of the market is $200,000 for a house. That's not in town. An old place in town is $400,000, big blocks for future development. There is NO land.

No trouble negative gearing (is there ever?). Excellent capital growth, always has been. I cannot find a rental property that will give a positive cash return. Know a couple of guys who bought older houses before they hit the market, paid a bit of cash and got a good deal. This is fine if you can spend $350,000.

Lismore is about 45 minutes away. It's uni town with a small working population (unlike Byron). I could buy(borrowed funds), a few small places there receive a very small cash flow for few potential headaches. Hardly anything to get exited about.

There is practically no capital growth in that town. Every area is different. Byron is different anyway. As we all say there is only one Byron! I'll just keep looking and have the calculator handy.

Cheers Michelle