May not happen - my grandmother has 4 kids. Two of them had two each, one had one, one is pushing 50 and hasn't even got a steady girlfriend. And now I'm being statistically 'odd' by being an only child having 3 of the buggers myself ...
gifts for grandkids
- Thread starter travelbug
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I don't understand the idea of wanting to give kids money for a car or to pay for a house deposit, as I think it destroys the work ethic.
I started working at age 13, for about $3-4 per hour. If I'd known that I had, say, $10K coming to me when I was 18, I'm sure I would have done the sums and figured out that that was way more than I was going to earn doing part-time work over the next 5 years, and wouldn't have felt anywhere near as motivated towards work.
I know that now I'm at a point where my work ethic (at least in the sense of being an employee) is totally destroyed
: I think "why get a job when I can get more money from a few per cent capital growth"? It's bad enough to have developed this attitude before 40 , it'd be terrible to have this attitude before you even start out on your working life. At least I developed my attitude through having invested 20 years in work, education, and investments. (Recognising that it takes many people longer than that, and some much less.)
And yes, I know some people are saying they won't tell the kids, and I think that's a good idea, but doesn't go far enough. They need their work ethic for a big longer than until age 18 or 21, IMHO.
I started working at age 13, for about $3-4 per hour. If I'd known that I had, say, $10K coming to me when I was 18, I'm sure I would have done the sums and figured out that that was way more than I was going to earn doing part-time work over the next 5 years, and wouldn't have felt anywhere near as motivated towards work.
I know that now I'm at a point where my work ethic (at least in the sense of being an employee) is totally destroyed
: I think "why get a job when I can get more money from a few per cent capital growth"? It's bad enough to have developed this attitude before 40 , it'd be terrible to have this attitude before you even start out on your working life. At least I developed my attitude through having invested 20 years in work, education, and investments. (Recognising that it takes many people longer than that, and some much less.)And yes, I know some people are saying they won't tell the kids, and I think that's a good idea, but doesn't go far enough. They need their work ethic for a big longer than until age 18 or 21, IMHO.
I agree but this is not giving children money to buy a car. The lesson to be learned her is that instead of getting useless toys, that they don't want after a few months, every birthday, they get money to be invested.
Later they see the benefit of this, when they have money to buy something useful (hopefully). Well that's the plan anyway. Some kids learn it, some will take it and waste it. That's the nature of the beast.
That is totally different to saying "honey here's the nice new car, Enjoy!")
I don't believe in that either. I saw my kids friends getting expensive cars at 16. They had no respect or appreciation for them.
Friend at work is going halves in a car for her 16 year old daughter. She's saved $10,000. I shake my head.
I've already told The Child she's getting the car later (by which time it will be a 16yo corolla), she absolutely hates the concept and the car, but then she's almost 9 and has no concept at all on the value of a car.
What age does this savings mentality/work ethic kick in? I pay The Child $5 for picking up all the toys and $2 for cleaning the bathroom floor on the proviso she buys her own snacks and other things she wants, and $7 a week covers a LOT of snacks and should leave some for savings too. Since we started this she's more interested in the fact that she can spend money and has burnt through all of her savings AND all the money she gets each week AND it is really hard to get her to actually do these things now she is being paid. She used to clean the house unpaid and chug down a $4 block of chocolate in a day and complain about it, which is why we instituted the pay-for-work and buy-your-own in the first place. I really don't understand why she is so reluctant to do the cleaning she's been doing for years now there's money in it, I've actually had to do it myself a few times since we started paying her, which is unheard of. I was quite used to our OCD cleaning fairy.
Well I don't know how much help this is to your question but it's just us.
We spend time with our family. We all bundled up and went and had a picnic bbq, hanging out together, having fun, laughs, discussions about nothing of great consequences.
Personally, I just take the stuff they love, my brilliant fresh fruit salad of which I am legendary for, and my chocolate cake.
And PLAY!!!
Play peek a boo, play chasey, anything that the kids love to have an adult participating, making a dill of herself. Toss frisbies, kick footballs, play cricket, drawing house plans/outlines on the ground with a stick, teach them kite flying...learning to be gentle with animals, I learn more about a child and "stuff" relevant to them in play.
The rest is coming with us to the odd auction, being with us going through OFI's, casing a neighborhood, finding the best icecream shop, a park to play on a swing.
It's all about fun. Learning and fun.
But that's just us.
We spend time with our family. We all bundled up and went and had a picnic bbq, hanging out together, having fun, laughs, discussions about nothing of great consequences.
Personally, I just take the stuff they love, my brilliant fresh fruit salad of which I am legendary for, and my chocolate cake.
And PLAY!!!
Play peek a boo, play chasey, anything that the kids love to have an adult participating, making a dill of herself. Toss frisbies, kick footballs, play cricket, drawing house plans/outlines on the ground with a stick
, teach them kite flying...learning to be gentle with animals, I learn more about a child and "stuff" relevant to them in play. The rest is coming with us to the odd auction, being with us going through OFI's, casing a neighborhood, finding the best icecream shop, a park to play on a swing.
It's all about fun. Learning and fun.
But that's just us.
This is a good point, however using the example of $10 000 this is only a deposit (small one), you would have to be working to obtain and keep a mortgage. I would like to think that a deposit would be the motivation to work to be able afford it.
In my perfect world in my head my kids will be great full for their head start rather then thinking that its a good reason to slack off (or buy a car or other useless junk). worked for me
We have decided that it is hers to do as she wishes. I just hope we do our job properly and she makes some great decisions.
This is where we differ... I think it is pretty much the same thing in terms of the impact on the child's money psychology, because the child's not choosing to invest the money. If you gave them cash each year and encouraged them to invest it, but didn't insist, then they may learn a lesson about delayed gratification (if they invest - which most won't). If you're just investing it without the child being involved in that decision, then the child has no sense of having sacrificed anything, because they didn't have the option of taking the cash as an alternative. They never think of it as "their" money, until they receive the huge lump sum - at which point, whether it was invested over the years, or dropped out of the sky as a gift, really makes no difference to their attitude to money. In both cases, without their contributing or sacrificing anything, they get a big bundle of cash.
Your experience supports the position I've heard several money/parenting educators take, that paying kids for participating in household work, actually devalues it in their eyes. The philosophy seems to be that everybody should participate in the household work (in an age-appropriate fashion), not because they want to earn money, but because they want to be contributing members of a co-operative household unit. The sense of self that they gain by feeling that they're contributing is worth a lot more to them than money - even if they won't admit it, or aren't aware of it.RumpledElf said:
Just as Mum doesn't get paid for cooking dinner or washing clothes, kids don't get paid for cleaning up after themselves. Consider the care that somebody puts in when cooking a meal for their family or a date, as opposed to their attitude to the work when cooking meals in a fast food restaurant in exchange for money. So how do you deal with the money, then? I've seen several advocate just giving the kids a fixed amount every week, much like (most) adults get a pay cheque. (If they're not contributing to the household, that's dealt with as a separate issue, unrelated to money.) Then you agree which "normal" expenses they have to cover from that money. You start out with a small amount, to cover small items, so perhaps $2 per week for a toddler, to cover a ride at the supermarket, for example. Then in lower primary school, it might be $5 per week, and has to cover computer games and comics. In upper primary, maybe $10 per week, and has to cover all their leisure, eg movies, tenpin bowling, computer games, etc. By age 17, provided they're still in full-time education, it may be up to $50 per week, for covering all their leisure activities, mobile phone, and fashion. In this system, anything they want beyond the living standard that the family is willing to provide (ie if that money isn't enough), they have to work to pay for - outside the home, ie get a job, or do odd jobs for other households.
I definitely don't have this all figured out, I must say, and the above is just some thoughts that I've absorbed from various educators, and which made sense to me, so I plan to take this approach, but I've been a bit slack about getting it put into practise so I'm purely a theoretician at this stage.
Cath, it sounds like you've instilled the right attitudes, but I guess what I'm uncertain about, is what motivates you to want to give your kids $10K? If they're equipped and motivated to work and earn their own money, what's the point in giving them any cash (in terms of a lump sum)?
Oh, she begs for work to do around the house for money but then doesn't do the big ticket $5 one. And then goes and spends $4 on bird seed which is still in the cupboard (no, we don't have birds). She's also prone to stopping 90% of the way through a job and deciding she doesn't need the money or need to finish.
But then this is no different to pre-money when she'd nag in her hint-but-not-ask way for something and then never use it. Thought it might make a difference if she wastes her own money on something she never uses, but apparently not. I'm well past the point of buying her things she hints for, she can just get her own now, I'm sick of all these packets of untouched food, unplayed with toys and unworn clothes. She 'hates' around 99% of the food in the house as is (complaining is now banned - and the other 1% she complains about the AMOUNT of food), only wants to wear her most hideous clothes (now confiscated), and she only gets books not toys now.
She has no savings goals - whatever big ticket item she wants, her dad gets her so she doesn't need to save a penny.
But then this is no different to pre-money when she'd nag in her hint-but-not-ask way for something and then never use it. Thought it might make a difference if she wastes her own money on something she never uses, but apparently not. I'm well past the point of buying her things she hints for, she can just get her own now, I'm sick of all these packets of untouched food, unplayed with toys and unworn clothes. She 'hates' around 99% of the food in the house as is (complaining is now banned - and the other 1% she complains about the AMOUNT of food), only wants to wear her most hideous clothes (now confiscated), and she only gets books not toys now.
She has no savings goals - whatever big ticket item she wants, her dad gets her so she doesn't need to save a penny.
Cath, it sounds like you've instilled the right attitudes, but I guess what I'm uncertain about, is what motivates you to want to give your kids $10K? If they're equipped and motivated to work and earn their own money, what's the point in giving them any cash (in terms of a lump sum)?
10K is just a random amount, I have no idea what it will be in 20 years.
My motivation is to give my kids a head start, nothing more nothing less. I think it stems from that i was given an amount that was enough for a small deposit for my first house. I was so great full for this. At a time when my friends were driving around in fancy cars and had huge credit card debts I was out looking for a house, then working my butt off to pay down my mortgage. My circumstances are a lot different now but had they stayed the same I would be out looking for my first IP while my friends are now just trying to save for a deposit for their first house. Now I don't mean that as a judgemental way, more of an example of how a little head start can go a long way. maybe this won't matter in the long run? I am not sure.
I do see your point and it's is something I need to take into consideration. My attitude may change as i gain more life experience both as a parent and in general. My intention is not to give my kids a free ride and will do my best to educate them on the potential of a little head start.
Sorry to get completely off topic, just trying to explain my motivation behind it.
RumpledElf, she sure sounds like a "challenge". I'm sure she's delightful, but I've heard it said that the temperaments of our children are especially designed to test us and bring up all our own issues, and I think there's something in that. What do you think that her behaviour can teach you?
I guess I feel that as a parent, the most valuable things you can give your kids are communication skills, an education, critical thinking abilities, relationship skills, and a healthy self-esteem (in no particular order). Granted, you could give them all this and give them money, too. But if you're going to give your kids one area of their life in which they can have a sense of accomplishment from having doing it all on their own, money seems like a good one to pick. You can set out in life as an adult without money, but I think it's much harder to set out without the others.
I'm sure she's delightful, but I've heard it said that the temperaments of our children are especially designed to test us and bring up all our own issues, and I think there's something in that. What do you think that her behaviour can teach you?I appreciate you sharing your views; I'm genuinely interested to try and understand this position more, as a lot of people have goals like "giving the kids a head start" - another one is "leaving an inheritance" - which I don't comprehend, and I'm always interested in trying to figure out what makes different people tick.My motivation is to give my kids a head start, nothing more nothing less. ... My intention is not to give my kids a free ride and will do my best to educate them on the potential of a little head start.
Sorry to get completely off topic, just trying to explain my motivation behind it.
I guess I feel that as a parent, the most valuable things you can give your kids are communication skills, an education, critical thinking abilities, relationship skills, and a healthy self-esteem (in no particular order). Granted, you could give them all this and give them money, too. But if you're going to give your kids one area of their life in which they can have a sense of accomplishment from having doing it all on their own, money seems like a good one to pick.
You can set out in life as an adult without money, but I think it's much harder to set out without the others.I guess I feel that as a parent, the most valuable things you can give your kids are communication skills, an education, critical thinking abilities, relationship skills, and a healthy self-esteem (in no particular order). Granted, you could give them all this and give them money, too. But if you're going to give your kids one area of their life in which they can have a sense of accomplishment from having doing it all on their own, money seems like a good one to pick.
Excellent point! Self accomplishment is not something you can "give". Something to ponder.
Now about leaving inheritence, from my own experiences its about being able to leave something for your kids. Once you are gone you are gone, they can't come to you for help (even if they didnt least there is the option) Its a peace of mind thing for many I imagine. I know a terminally ill family member took great comfort in knowing they had inheritance to leave. They can no longer be there to support in any other way and leaving inheritence is about the only support they can offer when they are gone. I know that if i were to be hit by a bus tommorrow my daughter would be well looked after if the worse were to happen. I think this ties in with the SANF. As I said, only my experience I could be way off on the general way of thinking.
The patience of a saint and how to effectively resist strangling small children
Also makes internet trolls seem like nice, sane people in comparison. We have some children playing on one of our servers and its the parents and grandparents that do the best keeping the peace, the ones without kids get terribly flustered. Parenting definitely teaches you something.She actually cleaned the house today ("I'm booooooooooooored. There's nothing to dooooooo." "Clean the house then." "Oh! Ok ... can I sort all the baby's drawers too?"). Said I'd put up the Christmas tree when she's done. She didn't want the tree up because its not my birthday and we only put the tree up on my birthday and take it down on hers
This is where we differ... I think it is pretty much the same thing in terms of the impact on the child's money psychology, because the child's not choosing to invest the money. If you gave them cash each year and encouraged them to invest it, but didn't insist, then they may learn a lesson about delayed gratification (if they invest - which most won't). If you're just investing it without the child being involved in that decision, then the child has no sense of having sacrificed anything, because they didn't have the option of taking the cash as an alternative. They never think of it as "their" money, until they receive the huge lump sum - at which point, whether it was invested over the years, or dropped out of the sky as a gift, really makes no difference to their attitude to money. In both cases, without their contributing or sacrificing anything, they get a big bundle of cash.
Your experience supports the position I've heard several money/parenting educators take, that paying kids for participating in household work, actually devalues it in their eyes. The philosophy seems to be that everybody should participate in the household work (in an age-appropriate fashion), not because they want to earn money, but because they want to be contributing members of a co-operative household unit. The sense of self that they gain by feeling that they're contributing is worth a lot more to them than money - even if they won't admit it, or aren't aware of it.
So how do you deal with the money, then? I've seen several advocate just giving the kids a fixed amount every week, much like (most) adults get a pay cheque. (If they're not contributing to the household, that's dealt with as a separate issue, unrelated to money.) Then you agree which "normal" expenses they have to cover from that money. You start out with a small amount, to cover small items, so perhaps $2 per week for a toddler, to cover a ride at the supermarket, for example. Then in lower primary school, it might be $5 per week, and has to cover computer games and comics. In upper primary, maybe $10 per week, and has to cover all their leisure, eg movies, tenpin bowling, computer games, etc. By age 17, provided they're still in full-time education, it may be up to $50 per week, for covering all their leisure activities, mobile phone, and fashion. In this system, anything they want beyond the living standard that the family is willing to provide (ie if that money isn't enough), they have to work to pay for - outside the home, ie get a job, or do odd jobs for other households.
I definitely don't have this all figured out, I must say, and the above is just some thoughts that I've absorbed from various educators, and which made sense to me, so I plan to take this approach, but I've been a bit slack about getting it put into practise so I'm purely a theoretician at this stage.
Cath, it sounds like you've instilled the right attitudes, but I guess what I'm uncertain about, is what motivates you to want to give your kids $10K? If they're equipped and motivated to work and earn their own money, what's the point in giving them any cash (in terms of a lump sum)?
Good points. I didn't think of it like that.
I agreee with the paying kids for jobs. I made that mistake. Not so much paying for jobs but gave them pocket money on the proviso that jobs are done (same thing I guess). Problem was when my daughter got a part time job she didn't want to do the jobs (and I didn't want to give her pocket money). Arguements ensued.
I think, as you said, everyone should contribute. And pocket money should be non conditional. Maybe pay for extra jobs that are not part of their responsibility to the household.
Being a teacher it's interesting to see different parenting styles. Some kids can't even put their own shoes on.
I teach 5-6 yr olds. We had a class performance and kids had to get changed back into their school uniform. Some parents came to help. Most kids dressed themselves (some needed help with zippers, laces). But one child lay on the floor and lifted his legs in the air while his mother slid his pants off and put his shorts on.
The other kids and parents just stared.
Hehe. The big one stands around when she can't/won't try to do something either looking morose and incompetant (anywhere but home someone will come up and offer help when she does this) or saying "this is tooooooo haaaaaaaaaard, I can't dooooooooooooooo this" in a whining voice. And then the baby spots her, kind of herds her up, shoves the things she needs into her hands and makes her do it. Hilarious
Absolutely staggering differences between the one who watches, notices, observes, mimics and copies and the one with the helpless princess syndrome. The big one would make a really good supermodel. Then I won't need to pay pocket money
Hehe. The big one stands around when she can't/won't try to do something either looking morose and incompetant (anywhere but home someone will come up and offer help when she does this) or saying "this is tooooooo haaaaaaaaaard, I can't dooooooooooooooo this" in a whining voice. And then the baby spots her, kind of herds her up, shoves the things she needs into her hands and makes her do it. Hilarious
Absolutely staggering differences between the one who watches, notices, observes, mimics and copies and the one with the helpless princess syndrome. The big one would make a really good supermodel. Then I won't need to pay pocket money
Funnily enough, I have an oldest child a bit like this. Asked me today, where does paper money come from, is it special paper... um, ah, what am I getting at, dont' want to stretch the brain too much.
So I said, I'm not sure what you're asking. Oh, he says, is money special paper. Yep, I say, is that what you wanted to know? Er, yeah, he says.
But you know what else he wanted to know, and if it's special, how to do you not just photocopy it, how do you get the special paper, why is it special (he's lazy, but still curious). But would he flex the brain enough to string those questions together? hell no
On the other hand, child No2, who is five years younger, will start to run rings around him because he's not afraid to ask questions and doesn't care what the answer is - stupid, clever or otherwise. Also, he loves to wow a crowd, and do them older folk love a cute blond boy with a question? You bet!
I gotta say I would have LOVED a bit of a helping hand when I left home. I left home at 16 and a half to work 8.00am till 5.30 in the city (so I moved out of the country home and into a share flat in Bentleigh) and worked my teeny tush off. Paying rent, train tickets and eating vegemite toast and baked beans. I then grew up enough to get driving lessons and had to pay for every single one of them. My parents weren't in a position to give me lessons.
The point being I had a good work ethic, head screwed on, happy, confident yada yada yada but NO money!!!! Oh the things I could have done... Husband, same story, we are still playing 'catch up' due to early financial difficulties.
My kids will be good people. If we want to give them a head-start we will and they will appreciate every cent because they will know the background. So many of the stories in the books and magazines on investing, property etc start with
"Jeff started his portfolio at just 21 when his parents helped him out with a deposit".
With pocketmoney I agree, it's just pocketmoney ie. in the pocket for those little extras they might like. Not payment for jobs.
The point being I had a good work ethic, head screwed on, happy, confident yada yada yada but NO money!!!! Oh the things I could have done...
Husband, same story, we are still playing 'catch up' due to early financial difficulties.My kids will be good people. If we want to give them a head-start we will and they will appreciate every cent because they will know the background. So many of the stories in the books and magazines on investing, property etc start with
"Jeff started his portfolio at just 21 when his parents helped him out with a deposit".
With pocketmoney I agree, it's just pocketmoney ie. in the pocket for those little extras they might like. Not payment for jobs.
That's a brilliant idea. I wish all grand parents were like you.
I'm so sick of toys.
I agree you can teach your kids good values and still give them gifts and money. The reason why Josh is so spoilt isn't because he's an only child but because he's really such a great kid. He's so well behaved and so respectful.
But It's still nice to give gifts once inawhile, just to see the look on their face when they unwrap it.
I'm so sick of toys.
I agree you can teach your kids good values and still give them gifts and money. The reason why Josh is so spoilt isn't because he's an only child but because he's really such a great kid. He's so well behaved and so respectful.
But It's still nice to give gifts once inawhile, just to see the look on their face when they unwrap it.
I don't understand the idea of wanting to give kids money for a car or to pay for a house deposit, as I think it destroys the work ethic.
I started working at age 13, for about $3-4 per hour. If I'd known that I had, say, $10K coming to me when I was 18, I'm sure I would have done the sums and figured out that that was way more than I was going to earn doing part-time work over the next 5 years, and wouldn't have felt anywhere near as motivated towards work.
I know that now I'm at a point where my work ethic (at least in the sense of being an employee) is totally destroyed
And yes, I know some people are saying they won't tell the kids, and I think that's a good idea, but doesn't go far enough. They need their work ethic for a big longer than until age 18 or 21, IMHO.
You're saying in a way that other people say "I'd rather be happy than rich"
There's a lot of shades of grey either side of that blck line you've drawn. I dont think it's always just that simple.
Um, I didn't say anything like that, actually.
I was talking about how I think it's important to have a work ethic. I didn't draw any black line. 
