Glued on shower screen! How ridiculous!

Got my 2 semi-frameless shower screens "professionally" installed last week by a large company.

It was falling off the wall yesterday. That's when I noticed the mounting bracket was glued on with I suspect liquid nail. Yep, you read it right- the mounting bracket were not screwed in.

Have contacted the company, they will get back to me tomorrow regarding re-installation.

However, I wish to have the other shower screen re-done properly even though it is not falling off the wall, yet!

Questions:

1. What are my rights in insisting that they take down the other shower screen and re-install with screws?

Both the shower screens were installed by the same guy so I reasonably believe that he took a shortcut with the other one too. And if so, the product was not installed with due skill and care and is unfit for the purpose as it could fall down and shatter and pose danger to the user.


2. Should I send them an email to document what has been communicated so far, as a means of record keeping (in case I wish to involve ACCC/Office of Fair Trading).


This is going to put a spanner in the works with regards to moving in date. :mad::mad::mad:


Going to take lots of pictures now.
 
1. What are my rights in insisting that they take down the other shower screen and re-install with screws?
I'd give the BSA in your state a call and ask for guidance. Here's the site for QLD.

At the end of the day the builder should have a licence and offer recourse for damages, as shower screens and their installation must comply with Aus standards, but following up after an accident has happened isn't nice to think about..
 
Hi,
I just had a look at AS2208:1996 and don't think it would be too much help to you, other than reading this part.. it's the manufacturer's responsibility to comply with Aus standards by;

APPENDIX A
MEANS FOR DEMONSTRATING COMPLIANCE WITH THIS STANDARD
(Informative)
A1 SCOPE This Appendix sets out the following different means by which compliance
with this Standard can be demonstrated by the manufacturer or supplier:
(a) Evaluation by means of statistical sampling.
(b) The use of a product certification scheme.
(c) Assurance using the acceptability of the supplier’s quality system.
(d) Other such means proposed by the manufacturer or supplier and acceptable to the
customer.

Long and short of it is the retailer/installer should be able to issue a certificate upon request stating that the screen complies with AS. Problem is they may give you this certificate, when in fact it doesn't comply. I'd ring "Building commision Victoria", for guidance. Perhaps they could recommend a certifier to check the screen, installer then rectifies at their cost.
 
Thanks again VBPlease.

I have contacted BCV and they will get back to me, I was able to get an architect to send me the code for glazing but it only had specific mentions about frameless shower screens.

I spoke with the company again, they said that they don't drill into porcelain tiles to secure the jamb/channel that the glass sits in, that they just glue it!! I shudder to think how many people have it in their property like that without knowing.

The installer who came to fix the problem today said that it can be done but need a diamond drill which he doesn't have. He said he would ask the company to buy one for him. He also said that they as subcontractors just glue it on because they get paid so little to install it and can't take too much that time drilling into porcelain. He also said that they do drill into ceramic because they have the equipment and it doesn't take long. He then said that the glue/silicone is strong enough on its on and that I don't need the screws!

So my rhetorical question is, why then do they screw the jamb in for ceramic but not porcelain tiles?

All rubbish talk, in my opinion...

Anyway, I have written a letter outlining the problem, my expectations

Either remove it then install properly by securing the jamb channel with screws, without damaging my tiles when drilling) OR, give me a refund and take the shower screens away (which I think I am entitled to because the product and installation is not doing what it is supposed to do, that is, stay securely attached to the wall!)

What do you think?

By the way, after the installer left, I noticed some chipped areas on the glass so I have asked them to replace it, I do not need the toughened glass breaking spontaneously and injuring people and damaging property! The question is, did the first installer install it when it was damaged because he couldn't be bothered or he didn't check, OR did it get damaged when it was taken down today? Anyway, the company agreed to change it straight away so that's ok.
 
lawyers or glazier advice?

On second thoughts, maybe I should just insist on the refund because it is not doing what it is supposed to do (stay on the wall). As I understand it, the consumer laws regarding returns states that I am entitled to refund if it is my choice, when a product is not doing what it is supposed to do, even if I am offered a repair/exchange or credit note.

Seeing that the panel was damaged after being taken down today, I am worried that more panels will be damaged when moved around during the repair process.....

any lawyers or glaziers out there able to offer advice?
 
Frameless shower screens are the worst that you could install. They are extremely flimsy and often leak water.

The only positive is that they look good.

The person who came out to quote should have advised you of same.
 
Shouldn't you give them a chance to rectify first?


Thank you for commenting, evand. I appreciate all replies.
I take your point.

But what I am concerned about is that

1. the second fitter damaged the glass panel when taking it down, so now I have to wait for replacement

2. I will have be there to ensure that all glass panels are intact when taken down otherwise risk of spontaneous breakage later on

3, installer doesn't even have equipment to drill into porcelain wall and has to ask the company to buy him one, so he may not have due skill to do so. This then poses a damage risk to my property. If this happens, the company will have to pay for repairs, and I can't use my showers. So I can't move in, so I have to keep paying mortgage for the house while repairs are being done, and pay my rent (if my landlord allows me to stay on, movign date is 17 days away).... etc etc...




I think it might be more cost effective for them to just refund me. Then I can get on with it and arrange for another company to install the shower.

I actually see this as a major fault rather than minor, because if the glass panel falls down and shatters, the glass could cause cuts/grazes or lodge in the eye causing damage.


Sorry, venting now.... have had a sleepless night thinking how to deal with it all.....

Again, i appreciate everyone commenting. Feels like people care!

Gizmopb1
 
have had a sleepless night thinking how to deal with it all........

I think you're worrying too much over a small issue.
The silicone when used against clean ceramic tiles has a very strong bond and won't come off.
If you don't like the frameless shower screen you can remove it and install one with a frame or use a curtain but are those better options?
I'd stick with what you've got
 
I think you're worrying too much over a small issue.
The silicone when used against clean ceramic tiles has a very strong bond and won't come off.
If you don't like the frameless shower screen you can remove it and install one with a frame or use a curtain but are those better options?
I'd stick with what you've got

Thank you for responding BV. Appreciate your input.

What I am worried about is that the silicone will fail again, as it already has this time, and then the semi-frameless shower screen, with the only anchor to the wall being just the glue, will fall and shatter. I have porcelain walls by the way but don't know if this is different to ceramic.

Safety glass shatters into relatively blunt small pieces and may just cause cuts and grazes or they could go into the eyes and cause real damage there. I have worked in the healthcare setting and saw patients who have been showered with safety glass (automobile) - fragments imbedded everywhere. It was a painful experience for them and the time it took to pick out those pieces from various body parts- just takes too long. When showering, one is not clothed so the places that these fragments can go into may amount to some, ah hummm, discomfort and embarrassment!

Yes BV, I do agree with you, losing sleep over this, is ..... well, very stupid. Much better to come onto the forum and get collective advice! :)
 
Safety glass shatters into relatively blunt small pieces and may just cause cuts and grazes or they could go into the eyes and cause real damage there. I have worked in the healthcare setting and saw patients who have been showered with safety glass (automobile) - fragments imbedded everywhere. It was a painful experience for them and the time it took to pick out those pieces from various body parts- just takes too long. When showering, one is not clothed so the places that these fragments can go into may amount to some, ah hummm, discomfort and embarrassment!

I think you are being optimistic to think that a refund will be offered without huge delays as they will try anything and everything to avoid giving it.

Comparing safety glass injuries suffered in a car accident where speed is involved and a static situation such as would be the case in a bathroom is somewhat unrealistic. We have had a screen break and apart from some minor scratches no damage was suffered apart from shock that the screen shattered.:eek:

Don't get me wrong I agree that the channel should have been attached with screws. We use porcelain tiles all the time and drilling through the porcelain is no different than drilling through glazed tiles. In both cases we use tungsten tipped drill bits. In both cases you need to make a indentation in the tile for the drill bit to start in or else you will be sliding the drill bit all over the wall of floor scratching the tiles.

Cheers
 
And make sure they turn the hammer action of the drill off.

As for centering the drill bit, you can put a piece of tape over the spot and start there.

Don't get me wrong I agree that the channel should have been attached with screws. We use porcelain tiles all the time and drilling through the porcelain is no different than drilling through glazed tiles. In both cases we use tungsten tipped drill bits. In both cases you need to make a indentation in the tile for the drill bit to start in or else you will be sliding the drill bit all over the wall of floor scratching the tiles.

Cheers
 
What I am worried about is that the silicone will fail again
It won't, you probably didn't give it enough time to cure properly.
At this time of the year and depending on what type of silicon they used and the sectional area it could take days for proper bonding to occur.
Try to keep it dry and use warm air from a hair dryer on it to speed up the curring process.
Once set you won't be able to take the screen off.
You'll have to cut the silicon all around, and even then you'll struggle to remove it.
 
hey thanks guys. All very helpful advice!

The company has agreed to re-install properly, but now are saying that the chipped toughened glass can be "buffed" out.

Oh no.... no.... no....

I got a copy of the Glazing Handbook, courtesy of my architect relative and the recommendation is for replacement! Also talked to the Glass and Glazier Association of Australia and the bloke in charge said to insist on replacement....

saga continues but I am feeling a whole lot better.... thanks to all the helpful advice you and the relevant authorities have given me

Appreciate all your input!
 
It won't, you probably didn't give it enough time to cure properly.
At this time of the year and depending on what type of silicon they used and the sectional area it could take days for proper bonding to occur.
Try to keep it dry and use warm air from a hair dryer on it to speed up the curring process.
Once set you won't be able to take the screen off.
You'll have to cut the silicon all around, and even then you'll struggle to remove it.

Yes, the time to cure is critical as you mentioned. The entire renovated bathroom was never used, the shower screen never opened by us and the channel and the door still fell off. I suspect the installer should have installed just the channel, waited for it to cure, then put the panels of glass in, if he intended to just glue it. So yes, the installer didn't give it enough time to cure. Cutting corners I reckon. He as a subcontractor apparently got paid $25 to install that screen by the big company. I can understand why he didn't want to come back a few days later to complete the job. But that's not my problem. He needed to take up the pay issue with the big company. The second installer who came to "fix" the problem said that they didn't drill for porcelain because "we get paid peanuts and we are not going to stand around drilling porcelain when it takes so long". Not my problem again, take it up with the big company.

We might have to delay moving in until shower issue fixed. At the moment they have just left the glass panels leaning against the wall. I am not touching it, lest they break, and with kids I won't risk them running around and smashing the glass and injuring themselves.
 
Is this installed on a floor that's all one level? I hope you have properly installed metal angles that the frame slots over the top of, otherwise welcome to leak city.
 
These guys have covered it all pretty well. The only thing I might add, is that if these guys are sub-contractors, (which they sould like they are because if you're any employee you get paid per hour, not per job), then they should pay for their own drill bits.

You you probably find it hard to be awarded a refund if contested, because they havn't had the chance to rectify their work. If you are not satisfied with the end result, then call someone independently assess the job to see if it performs as promised.

By the way, silicone shouldn't fail as described unless they put it on a wet or dusty surface, i.e. grout dust.

good luck.
 
Thanks for your responses Orbitor and Wayfarer

I have a shower base. Really wanted a walk in / level entry shower but in the end decided that the risk was too great.

It's reassuring to know that properly applied silicone will be alright.

The installer said he was a subcontractor, but doesn't want to pay for his own equipment.

The company is sending someone tomorrow to fix it. I hope it all goes well.

Thanks again for all your responses. I do appreciate them.

Gizmopb1
 
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