Got a spare million for your old age?

[wylie]

Based on his assessment by ACAT. They do an assessment every now and then, and I gather he is moved slowly up some sort of list. I do know that when he first was assessed it was discussed that he was a long way from needing to be placed in a home, but that it was important that he is in some type of "holding pattern" and the assessments be kept up. He was re-assessed recently and we have noticed that he is getting more confused every week.

Because my mum is capable of caring for him and because he is physically fit, I believe he still is a long way from getting to the top of the list. We don't want him to be at the top of the list either because (in our opinion) he isn't ready to go anywhere, but the day will come when my mum cannot cope any more.

He has never been an aggressive man, but there are hints of aggression and if that happens, I feel sure he will be assessed differently, and possibly moved more quickly towards the top of the list.

He still knows who we are but cannot remember what he did five minutes ago, or yesterday.

He was a very clever man with a great analytical brain, and it is sad to see it slip away.

 

[Y33]

Wylie,

A lot can also be determined by other conditions/ailments, age factor and ADL's. If he is too active it can be a lot harder on your mum to keep things under control. Is he showing signs of anger or frustration which eventually leads to anger?

 

[wylie]

"Active" is an interesting thing. My dad used to walk for hours a few years ago when he was first diagnosed. His family is long lived with two of his siblings nearing 90 and one just died aged around 89 and one earlier with asbestos disease. He was a late baby, so his siblings are about 15 years older.

Because he walked so much, he was physically fit, and always has been fit and active.

Now he lies on a bed for days at a time. He is bored. He will not put in his hearing aids or his glasses, even when prompted. If he has something to look forward to, he will get up and dressed. Otherwise he will spend days on the bed, looking at the ceiling. It is hard for mum. When we have family together, he is usually quite sociable and chatty, but with just mum that all changes. I think he hides it from us a bit, so is in control still of his moods.

I think the little flashes of anger are probably his frustration. My mum was getting frustrated one day with my brother also there, and mother and son were discussing dad not putting in his hearing aids and he yelled at them "don't talk about me like that" or something similar. I understand his feeling, but he blankly refuses to help himself by using his hearing aid and glasses. When I ask him to put the hearing aid in or put his glasses on, he chooses not to, so it is not just him forgetting. It is a really stubborn streak coming out.

 

[Pushka]

Apparently Nursing Homes can take all but $29,000 in Assets for their use. We went through this a few years ago; and were shocked at how much can be taken. My mum has been gifting $10,000 a year for three years in five; and has divested much of her assets this way. Paid for her funeral, etc etc. She is on the full pension and they take a good proportion of this. She is not in aged care as such but bought an Independent living unit, and her estate will get a propotion of this back. For those who are super wealthy, I agree, it would be much better having home based nursing care, so at least a person, and not a business, gets the money.

I plan never to go into a nursing home.

 

[Y33]

70's is still an active age.

If he requires prompting to get out of bed then maybe a daily list of things to do for him might help. Your mum just wakes him up and reminds him he has to do some gardening or move some rubbish etc. Even something simple like watering the garden or raking the leaves can be enough.

A simple stimuli for anyone who use to be a handy man is too have a box that needs to be moved or even a suit case. The same routine or similar can be used day after day to get someone out of or off the bed.

If into sports and especially golf when younger it is very easy to make a mini putting course.

 

[wylie]

I added a little to my last post, Y33, and realised you had posted in the meantime. The problem with my mum giving dad instructions is twofold.

Firstly, I have been there when both are in the kitchen. Mum will want dad to put something in the bin. He cannot hold the thought long enough to walk to the bin. I can see in his eyes that he is confused and feeling hopeless for not being able to remember for even a few seconds.

Secondly, mum cannot seem to give him simple requests like "put the ham in the bin under the sink". She will instead say "I was thinking that I won't use this last bit of ham. It is a few days old. It needs to be thrown out. Could you go to the fridge, get the ham and put it in the bin. Don't put it in the bin if there is not a bin liner in it. If you need a liner, get one from the cupboard."

This is just an example, but I tell her she needs to make it short and concise. Love mum and dad, but he will not put his hearing aid in, and she will not (or more like CAN NOT) change her pattern of speech from a lifetime of speaking like that.

Sometimes the lead in to her "task" takes her three times as long as if she just did the task herself. It gets me so frustrated I sometimes cut across her with "what is the actual QUESTION". I can see my dad's confusion and frustration as he tries to process the waffle which surrounds the ACTUAL request.

She has always padded out her conversation like that, and it is something I grew up with, and have had to fight to stop myself doing it. I am a work in progress and realised a long time ago (thank you to my hubby) that the person I am speaking to does NOT need to know the long and usually dreary lead up to the main point of the story that I am telling.

Sometimes I tell them visiting them is like the "Itchy and Scratchy Show", or the three stooges. At least we can still laugh about it, but less so my mother, who just gets stressed and frustrated.

 

[Y33]

Wylie,

Can see where your frustration comes from. Mum needs to readjust to having a 5yr old without using baby talk. Keep It Short Simple.

Not sure how to get around the hearing aid situation if he is just being stubborn. Short reverse psychology might work. Just take it away and have a conversation and see if he wants it.

 

[Tizzy]

It's such a horrible disease.

My FIL was moved into high care (nursing home) about 18 months ago. His Alzheimers progressed very rapidly from diagnosis in late 2005 Up until he moved into residential high care , he'd managed living independently in a retirement village with 4 days a week at day centres ( Alzheimers WA) and daily carers plus me checking in. Then his balance went as the plaques in the brain started to move around and he needed 24 hour care.

His care was and still is very expensive and is funded with income from shares he carefully invested in. He's now in a "special services" facility which costs an extra $30 a day ( yes a day) on top of the daily fee, Plus the $340K bond. He really gets no benefit from the extra services because it covers things like wine at dinner ( not a good idea), cloth serviettes)??? and I understand the rooms area are supposed to be little bigger. He has to be fed, walked around, fully dressed shaved and teeth brushed. He wears pull ups for double incontinence and he falls regularly because he is still mobile. The carers and nurses are very good with him and he is regarded as easy to care for because he is "pleasantly demented". He doesn't recognise us, can't ask questions, ( can't really respond to our questions either) but seems happy enough watching the world around him.

He would be mortified to know that he is in this state.

I was fortunate, my FIL did not get aggressive as no real frontal lobe damage. He also didn't seem to get depressed.

Depression is a big thing with the elderly and apart from medication, additional activity is useful to combat it.

Something ewlse to consider, if someone has always said I'll never go to a day centre, then they'll keep saying it simply because they always have in the past. Many people start attending and accept it as part of their routine simply because it is introduced into the daily routine and then they accept it. If you keep asking "would you like to go" then you'll keep getting "no I don't".

You just arrange a few sessions at a centre ( dementia specific centre only) where you stay as well and then slowly you back out over time. It's as much for the carers benefit (respite) as it is for the patient. It's actually better for them to attend day centre because the additional stimulation keeps the brain ticking over. Plus, the activities tire the person out so they are less likely to wander at night.

 

[Debt Junkie]

Divert divert divert ...

It's really the only way to deal with it, and much easier for me to say than it is for someone actually living within the situation to achieve.

A close family member of mine has worked for over twenty years hosting an Alzheimers group at a nursing home in Brisbane. The group runs from 4-8 pm every evening (during the 'sundowner' hours) and activities are scheduled to keep the residents calm and settled and stop them wandering (breakouts to return to home they lived in 50 years prior etc).

I don't know if it will help, but a strategy used is to play dvd's for them - obviously with the memory loss you can't play a movie with a plotline ... but they tend to play a lot of biographies - anything about the royal family - and music, such as Andre Rieu. For some reason they remember music for some time after it has finished playing.

Anyway, this post doesn't really add any value to the discussion of funding retirement, I just thought it might help ease the burden a little. It looks a lot like those who work to provide themselves with a financially stable future will always be supporting those who either cannot, or choose not to do the same. I choose to minimise the tax I pay as it's the closest option I have for objecting.

PS, they once put on a dvd about Anna Nicole Smith - the group was mesmerised for a solid hour

 

[Perp]

mum cannot seem to give him simple requests like "put the ham in the bin under the sink". She will instead say "I was thinking that I won't use this last bit of ham. It is a few days old. It needs to be thrown out. Could you go to the fridge, get the ham and put it in the bin. Don't put it in the bin if there is not a bin liner in it. If you need a liner, get one from the cupboard."

Oh wylie, ROTFLOL. This is my MIL to a T! She speaks in "stream of consciousness", and her specialty is never letting you answer the question she's trying to ask.

Example, enquiring about our travel plans (punctuation included for ease of reading, but she doesn't pause throughout any of this for you to be able to answer): "What time do you arrive? Guess it must be about 4, oh no, you don't have daylight savings, so does that mean it'll be about 3 or about 5, I can never remember which way that effects the time. Hang on, they've got bigger planes on for Christmas and they probably go faster so you might get in earlier. Do you have a hire car booked? I hope you made a booking because I heard they're terribly busy this Christmas. You would've used Europcar, I suppose, to get the Defence discount? Oh no, Europcar don't have the Defence contract anymore, who has it? Oh well it doesn't matter, you probably don't qualify for the discount anymore anyway, do you? Could you get the size of vehicle you wanted, oh well, doesn't matter, if they were booked out they probably would just give you a bigger one. I hope it's not too big to fit in the driveway with all the other cars we'll have here. You might be able to park at the neighbours, as their daughter's working on Christmas Day so they'll have one less car than usual. Actually, now that I think about it, his brother's visiting so he might have his car with him. [note: they live in a quiet neighbourhood with a zillion places to park anyway] I'll just pop over there now and find out if you can park your car there when you arrive, so you know whether to come to our house or go to theirs. But you may as well come to ours and have a drink and say hello first, you can always move your car over to their house afterwards...."

Oh gosh, I'm so looking forward to our first Christmas at home in 6 years. My hubby didn't realise, having been accustomed to listening to it since birth, how exhausting it is. I feel like my brain is being invaded, and have to "rest" a lot when visiting there, just to soak up some quiet and free up some brainspace.

My FIL is going deaf - I think he's loving it, personally - but heaven forbid if he ever gets Alzheimer's... MIL talks a lot but is a good egg; FIL has a foul temper. Existing foul temper + Alzheimer's = not good, I suspect.

He has to be fed, walked around, fully dressed shaved and teeth brushed. He wears pull ups for double incontinence and he falls regularly because he is still mobile. The carers and nurses are very good with him and he is regarded as easy to care for because he is "pleasantly demented". He doesn't recognise us, can't ask questions, ( can't really respond to our questions either) but seems happy enough watching the world around him.

He would be mortified to know that he is in this state.

I just wanted to pipe in at this joyful time, and spare a thought for your families, and all the families who are dealing with this, and the many other challenges that life can throw our way. I hope the fact that your FIL isn't aware of his condition, Tizzy, brings you some comfort.

God bless those people who are caring for a disabled or ill family member; carers in our society truly are the unsung heroes of this world. I pray that we in Australia, who can so readily afford it, develop more substantial support for these families. In particular, I'm aware that the aging parents of adult disabled children (eg 80yo parents of a 50yo totally dependent disabled son/daughter) not only spend their retirement years continuing to care for their dependent child - bless them for that - but in addition, worry a lot about who will care for, and what will happen to, their son/daughter when they pass away, now that so many institutions have been closed.

This is one of the policy areas in which I feel that we can and should do a lot more.

 

[Y33]

Tracey,

Couldn't stop laughing reading your post. I know someone very very similar.

 

[Tizzy]

I will pick up my FIL tomorrow and take him to Christmas lunch with the family and he will hear Christmas noises around him and I hope there will be moments of "recognition" for him. It is nice when every now and again he lets go a little laugh or says something that we recognise.

Ozperp that was a very funny rendition of MIL's way of carrying on both sides of a conversation.

Happy Christmas everyone.

 

[wylie]

Oh Tracey. That is my mother all over. She gives a running commentary on what she is doing, mumbling to herself, changing her mind and mumbling her changed plans. I will be in the same room and hear her talking to herself, but not know if she was talking to me ....."What was that Mum?". "Oh, I was just saying ......." and I get the whole long story with the whole long lead up and background to the people in the story.

It is like her thought process is coming out of her mouth and she CANNOT stop it. We sometimes call her "Mumbles" and she takes it quite well, but cannot change at 72 years old (or at least doesn't seem to be willing to try).

Worst is when we are all in a house together renovating. She mumbles along and we might be in the next room, hear her muttering away, stop what we are doing, walk into her room and ask her what she said. She says "I was just saying I need to get bread and milk on the way home" or whatever was going through her head (and out her mouth) at the time.

When it gets too much, we ignore it and figure that if she wants and answer she will speak up .

My husband gets very frustrated, but he is a trooper and takes it well. He tells me if I EVER get like my mother he will kill me first . He gets on really well with my mum and they call each other quite rude names with a smile.

I grew up with my mother telling everyone what she was doing, why and when she would be finished and what she would do next. I had to try very hard not to do it, and even now, if we are watching TV or just together as a family, if I need to leave the room for any reason I feel compelled to tell everyone, just so they know where I am going, and when I will be back .

So your example of your MIL is scarily familiar .

Just remembered Christmas Day a few years ago, my place, with mum's older sister sitting in the lounge with my family, my brother's family and mum and dad. My aunt was in the middle of a story (bit long winded) and she fell asleep with her chin to her chest. We all waited.... waited.... realised she had fallen asleep and moved on to other subjects.

About 20 minutes later she opened her eyes, shook herself and continued on as if she had not had a little nap. We roared with laughter. It was priceless.

 

[pennyk]

An update from us... we moved mum into a low care dementia specific hostel today. Well, actually, my brothers did. I'm on holidays, and they said they could manage it. She was quite aggressive about it, not wanting to go in. She has already hit one of the nurses. So, I hope she settles down.
She is in on a respite basis initially, until we finalise getting guardianship. But we are not expecting any problems on that front. just the problem of settling her in!
So, respite is good, because you don't have to pay any of the extra daily fees, or bond.
But the bond where she is will be $350K. We may pay part of it with a lump sum, but most will be paid as interest payments only. She's in a single room with ensuite in a brand new facility, so we're very happy with that.
because the income on the family home is not means tested, we will probably not be paying quite the full daily rate for care. But it will be close. and her rent should cover both payments reasonably easily, hopefully!
Pen