Granny flat at rear of duplex pair

Hi Everyone

I'm a long time lurker, first time poster with a crazy idea that I'd appreciate some feedback about.

I am about to settle on a 2x1 duplex pair in Yokine, and anticipate a gross rental return of $620/week. The units are in average condition (built ~1975). The block is 769sqm and zoned R30 (duplex potential). I had been considering holding for a few years and developing 2 side by side dwellings which I'd then continue to lease out. This will require a big (~500k?) outlay in the future.

With all the discussion about granny flats, I am now wondering about the feasibility of constructing a granny flat at the rear of the property. I understand (from reading the forum) that a granny flat can be erected for around $100k. What do you think this could rent for? I would also consider renovating the existing units to improve the the rental potential. I guess the idea behind all of the items in this paragraph is a view to turn the property cash flow neutral with minimal (~150K) outlay.

Has anyone else has experience in this regard? Do you think the granny flat idea is worthwhile, or should I continue with my original idea of a side by side development in the medium term future.

Thanks to everyone for your participation in this great forum.

Tim
 
So when you say develop later on, do you mean bulldoze the existing and build? Wouldn't it make more sense to keep the existing duplex pair?
 
With all the discussion about granny flats, I am now wondering about the feasibility of constructing a granny flat at the rear of the property.

Make sure you are not confusing SYDNEY granny flat regulations with other states!

I think, in NSW, dual occ. means there are two dwellings. Duplex is a dual occ. House and a granny flat is a dual occ. I don't think you can make a dual dual occ. :p
Is it possible be subdivide the duplex and then build a granny flat?!?
 
dtraeger2k - paid $675k

ThatBum - Yes, when I say develop, I mean bulldoze exisiting place. what I'm trying to understand is whether I'd realise more value if I bulldoze and develop, or retain, renovate and build a GF. I guess idea is about capital gain, and the other about cash flow.

devank - I'm not sure about the legalities. I think the rules in WA are such that if you have >450sqm, you can build 70sqm GF. I guess I was hoping the exisiting duplex pair (which is techincally a single building) could be retained and that I would still be able to build the GF. If I develop (bulldoze) and subdivide, I will not have enough space for a GF.
 
Curious as to why you bought a duplex pair if your plan was to bulldoze? I just imagine you had to pay an extra premium for the land + duplexes compared to say a single house or just land.

For my duplexes, they will be on 400sqm lots after subdivision, so I am seeking a variation to the deemed to comply minimum of 450sqm to fit in a granny flat on each.
 
You could bulldoze and build multiple dwellings. Or subdivide and build multiple dwellings on each new lot.

STCA ofcourse and your finances/timeframe.

Cheers
 
ThatBum - I bought the duplex pair as it seemed good value. I don't think I paid a premium, and it had the added benefit of 2 rentable units. I don't think single house would be able to derive the same rental income.

My plan had been to hold and rent out for as long as they were rentable. Bulldoze option would be 5-10 years down the track. If I went the GF option, I'd be looking to renovate the duplex and keep for income for the longer term. Problem is I don't know whether the GF option is valid..:confused:

Do you think you will be able to achieve the variation to the min size for a GF? Have there been any precedents?
 
I know the one you've bought as I thought about it too as the location is good.

I think because it's already 2 dwellings on a single title that you won't be allowed to put a granny flat on it. But it's worth a call to the council.

Once it's properly divided then it won't be big enough to do the granny flats.

I think Yokine is City of Stirling? They won't allow apartments on R30 as per HD_ACE's suggestion. They only allow it on R40 and above.
 
Westminster - Do you know if there's any particular department within the council that would be able to provide a meaningful/definitive answer?

Devank - That sounds like a really good idea! Is 300sqm within the bounds of an R30 zoning?
 
Can you divide unequally? Say 300 & 469 sqm? Then put one granny flat on one?



Yup he could especially as if it's the one I'm thinking of it's a corner block near a Uni.
Then all 3 could have street frontage if done cleverly. Thinking cap on - you could do this now instead of later by simply giving more backgarden to one if it's possible to strata it now with the current duplex

As to rent I think a GF would get anywhere between $200-300. It is big enough for 2 bedrooms in 70sqm.

Best to draw it up so that the block shapes can also work for future development.
 
looks like you paid around land value for the duplexes, well done. people are paying not a lot less/sqm in bloody spearwood although those are for R40 sites.

as mentioned before multis are out but an uneven subdivision+granny flat could work
 
ThatBum - I bought the duplex pair as it seemed good value. I don't think I paid a premium, and it had the added benefit of 2 rentable units. I don't think single house would be able to derive the same rental income.

My plan had been to hold and rent out for as long as they were rentable. Bulldoze option would be 5-10 years down the track. If I went the GF option, I'd be looking to renovate the duplex and keep for income for the longer term. Problem is I don't know whether the GF option is valid..:confused:

Do you think you will be able to achieve the variation to the min size for a GF? Have there been any precedents?

It just seems like a waste of a good existing duplex to bulldoze, especially if its not to increase the number of dwellings on the site. Obviously you have to do your own numbers, but I'd be surprised if bulldozing was a better option. My duplexes are tiny one bedders, and it was still far better value to renovate them rather than start again.

RE: Variations - No precedents that I know of, but my lots have plenty of open space, so I'll just argue the usual planning considerations. I've already had a chat to the council planners and they are pretty on board with the idea.
 
Westminster - Do you know if there's any particular department within the council that would be able to provide a meaningful/definitive answer?

within Stirling? turn it up!

the phrase about mammaries and male bovines comes to mind.

and uneven subby could work - sanj and devank are on the money as usual. smaller one at 300 and larger at 469, would allow a single dwelling on the 300 and a single dwelling plus ancillary acc on the 469.
 
Thanks for the great ideas everyone.

Westminster - mine is not a corner block, so we must not be talking about the same property.

My property is 20m wide at front, 18m at rear and 40m deep (one side is perpendicular). My hope was to get a side by side development, and that being the aim, 300sqm/40m is approx 7.5m width. Do you think 7.5m is sufficient to have a decent layout? Would 8m improve things?

ThatBum - the building is in poor-average condition for it's age and located toward the front of the block, but centered width-wise. The units are conjoined. I haven't run the numbers for a renovation, but previous discussions I have had lead to large-ish numbers for anything other than cosmetic improvements. I am however familiar with the cost of bulldoze and build developments. That's the reason I'm leaning towards the latter option.

From the sounds of it though, would it be worthwhile for me to look into getting drawings done? Survey strata or built strata or Green titled? I have two sewer points at the front of the property.

Sorry about the long posts...:eek:
 
Yup I was totally barking up the wrong tree - the one I saw was Menora, different zoning and WAY different price lol http://www.realestate.com.au/property-duplex+semi+detached-wa-menora-114199151

I think the money is on creating 2 nice side by side green title houses in 5-10 years with your block.

If you can get decent rent on it 'as is' or with perhaps a small cosmetic reno for bathroom/kitchen then do that.

If you want to look at an uneven development to do 300 + 469 then you use the same frontage at the front so they look good and are wide enough but the rear make it L shaped and shop off the some of the rear garden of the smaller one.
 
yeah these would be your subdivision options (attached).

can fit good 4x2 product on both, nothing wrong with tandem garages on the 7.5m block. (again, attached, 300sqm 7.5m wide.)
 

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