Green Title or Strata Subdivision - WA

[beachsnow]

I’ve just bought a 1012m block to subdivide down the middle with 10m frontage for both lots.

I am unsure whether to do it green title or strata. I know that green is more expensive to do but if its going to come back in the resale im happy to do so.

I’ve heard mixed stories whether the sale of a green title has much more value than a house that’s been strata titled.

Any comments?

 

[Ausprop]

probly strata it... you are unlikey to recover your costs from green title. my opinion only

 

[gooram]

Not sure about resale value, I'm in the process of doing a battleaxe block myself, but I'm going with survey strata because of the cost involved in going green title.

I would prefer to green title because I would prefer to buy green title. But at the end of the day, survey strata with no common property is effectively the same as green title. Buyers may not appreciate this however.

For me, going battleaxe means I need to run the sewer to the front of both blocks which means thousands over and above the standard headworks fees of about 6.5K.

I haven't nailed down an exact figure on the additional cost, surveyor suggested upwards of 10k, which may or may not be clawed back in the value of green title vs strata.

 

[Aaron Sice]

Not sure about resale value, I'm in the process of doing a battleaxe block myself, but I'm going with survey strata because of the cost involved in going green title.

I would prefer to green title because I would prefer to buy green title. But at the end of the day, survey strata with no common property is effectively the same as green title. Buyers may not appreciate this however.

For me, going battleaxe means I need to run the sewer to the front of both blocks which means thousands over and above the standard headworks fees of about 6.5K.

I haven't nailed down an exact figure on the additional cost, surveyor suggested upwards of 10k, which may or may not be clawed back in the value of green title vs strata.

great post, clearly some experience here.

Green title means each lot has it's OWN sewer, power and water connection.

Strata title can share power and sewer.

so there's the cost outlline again.

an SSP or title plan will cost the same, as will your WAPC fees.

if there's no CP, there's no BC, there's no fees then where's the problem?

I'd strata it if it were me, but it's not, so do your own DD carefully. the market may react differently, but i've never seen the situation arise where a sale has fallen through because it's "not a green title", esp if they're both 10m streetfront lots.

A battleaxe shouldn't need any CP on a 1012sqm block as a rear battleaxe needs to be 540sqm and the front a 440sqm, so that's another green title/strata title option as well.

 

[gooram]

great post, clearly some experience here.

Green title means each lot has it's OWN sewer, power and water connection.

Strata title can share power and sewer.

so there's the cost outlline again.

an SSP or title plan will cost the same, as will your WAPC fees.

if there's no CP, there's no BC, there's no fees then where's the problem?

I'd strata it if it were me, but it's not, so do your own DD carefully. the market may react differently, but i've never seen the situation arise where a sale has fallen through because it's "not a green title", esp if they're both 10m streetfront lots.

A battleaxe shouldn't need any CP on a 1012sqm block as a rear battleaxe needs to be 540sqm and the front a 440sqm, so that's another green title/strata title option as well.

BC, do you know the exact dimensions required for R30? i.e. what size does the rear block in a battleaxe subdiv need to be such that you can get away without the driveway being common property?

Also, what are the implications of the driveway being common property? I understand you can create a clause to give the rear block exclusive access, are there any other reasons to avoid CP you can think of? Obviously no CP is better, but if it can't be avoided...

Cheers

 

[Aaron Sice]

R30 exclusive battleaxe lot needs to be 420 total.

Can come down to 270sqm with no portion of that being the 4m access leg (ie can go smaller than 420 but access leg needs to be CP).

so no shared access - 420.
shared access - 270.

Implications of driveway being CP is that the clause is not put in and/or signed from partyt to party (esp a prob when on-sold) and the front owner, even though NOT using the driveway at all, must lawfully pay for repairs and upgrades 50%.

 

[Ausprop]

BC what would it cost to convert an existing SSP to green title?

 

[gooram]

R30 exclusive battleaxe lot needs to be 420 total.

Can come down to 270sqm with no portion of that being the 4m access leg (ie can go smaller than 420 but access leg needs to be CP).

so no shared access - 420.
shared access - 270.

Implications of driveway being CP is that the clause is not put in and/or signed from partyt to party (esp a prob when on-sold) and the front owner, even though NOT using the driveway at all, must lawfully pay for repairs and upgrades 50%.

Right, I can imagine that being an issue for future sale of the front home. I assume exclusive access clause exempts the front block owner from any costs to common property?

I've got a slight dilemma atm where by to go to 420 (incl driveway) I need to bring the rear fence line to the back door of the front house, so the door and any windows need to be bricked in and a new door put in.

Otherwise I go to 270 with common driveway.

Any thoughts on whether its worth going for no common property and doing a minor reno to accommodate? Main concern would be disruption to tenants, and cost to relocate back door.

 

[Aaron Sice]

doesn't sound like a major reno, but you'll need to fireproof the wall as well, along with noting it on your SSP for consideration.

if it's already tenanted though...well, maybe just pop a metre off the back door, label "minor openings" on the SSP and try and pinch a tiny bit of driveway with a large truncation to make up the lost area inside the 1.0m setback....

 

[Jebb]

BC, I'll have to give you a call one of these days as I want to get my butt into gear and start the development process rolling. Just been too busy.

Loads of interesting points here, I assume I will be going strata survey side-by-side, no CP, 11.5m frontage each.

 

[mdesai]

Headworks cost

I've existing house on 1012sm block, the existing house is situated such I don't need to touch it and I can put new house at rear in battleaxe format so that it can be subdivided in future either as SSP or green title.

Basically, I'm putting new house as a grouped dwelling under single owner (no subdivision at this stage). Do I still need to pay headworks fees for new house or new house can be connected to existing power, Water/Sewer connection?

 

[Ausprop]

i believe you are up for all the fees. Allow $20-30k for the subdivision

 

[mdesai]

Headworks cost

I'm not subdividing at this stage. However, you seems right that I might have to put aside more than 10K for fees.

Watercorp is asking $7,125 (126.55 Redevelopment, 6,547.00 headworks and 450.00 for cut-in junction). Alinta and WP have nt yet asked any such fees yet (I received account numbers for rear property connections).

The question I have are a) Is Water corp charging only for rear new house connection? b) Do I really need to incur this cost now (grouped dwelling) or only when I subdivide in the future?

 

[Steve Fitz]

You only pay headworks on each additional property you're putting on the block, basically meaning you pay headworks for each home extra to the 1st.

Headworks is only payable when you go to build and they add the new services.

 

[Ausprop]

Headworks is only payable when you go to build and they add the new services.

Unless they plan to create a vacant strata lot. in which case you get stung for everything such as green domes, surveyors, valuers, government xmas parties etc

 

[Aaron Sice]

you can't create an unserviced parcel of land.

no title will be issued without WAPC clearance conditions being met - being water, power, sewer and any other local govt requirements on top of that.

in fact, you can't even apply for a title without them being met.

 

[gooram]

you can't create an unserviced parcel of land.

no title will be issued without WAPC clearance conditions being met - being water, power, sewer and any other local govt requirements on top of that.

in fact, you can't even apply for a title without them being met.

Yep I'm currently doing one in the city of canning and have a number of conditions from council over and above the standard water/power/sewer.

Some of the curlier ones:
Geotech survey completed to ensure land is fit to be built on.
Removal of any old sewerage pits
Driveway had to be 5 metres wide where possible
Driveway needs to be completed (or pay a driveway bond which is returned to you when its completed by the new owner of the block)

 

[Ausprop]

or one i am doing down south...

contribution to the public road upgrade that the block is located on
contribution to mosquito control in the area
arborists report for the trees
clearance from FESA
clearance from some environmental govt dept to make sure the possums are happy
valuers reports for unit enititlements
survey before, during and after the process
convert overhead powerlines to underground

- it's a long and expensive journey

 

[gooram]

Yikes! I feel a bit better about mine now.

Moving to underground power is pretty standard and not overly expensive.

 

[mdesai]

Headworks cost

Steve and Ausprop, So you are saying that I pay headworks evenif I'm not subdividing the lot (i.e grouped dwellings ).