Hang on to your wallets NSW

The rort is about to step up a notch or ten - so much so that Macquarie Bank is getting in on the act. And these will have no warning signs, just Got-You-Sucker! signs after the fact.

From an earlier article:

This year has already been a bad one for Victoria with the road toll standing at 146 - up from 129 at this time last year.
The cameras are having an impact in improving driver behaviour," he [Police Minister Bob Cameron] said.
If that's the impact of improved driver behaviour, then give me bad drivers any day!

And don't forget the few hundred combined red light and speed cameras being rolled out now. Locations can be found here, at least at the moment.

GP
 
And don't forget the few hundred combined red light and speed cameras being rolled out now.

Don't break the law, don't pay. :p

I'd rather they raise revenue on something I have a choice about, than increasing other taxes that I have no control over and am forced to pay.

Although if they were serious about cutting the road toll, I'd like to see harsher penalties for hoon drivers, even as far as crushing their car. A little 3 year old girl was killed just recently by a hoon driver here in Melbourne, he killed himself too (good riddance) so will never know what he's done. He was known to police for previous offences, probably with warning after warning, or at the most they take their car for 48 hours, woopdy doo!
 
speed is one thing, and isnt an issue ONLY in isolation, and I believe we weigh it too highly.

Crappy roads are another.

A far more consistent way to reduce the road toll is to spend some money on the roads.

Well over 20 years ago, the then gov of the day promised a dual carriage way from Sydney to the QLD border...............we are still way short.

Its not so much about raising revenue but an attempt at a band aid fix over a festering infection..........

Unmarked mobile make NO difference to driver behaviour................so why use them ?

ta
rolf
 
i find constantly checking my speed to be about as distracting as talking on a mobile.

govts really don't help either, with irritations such as poorly co-ordinated traffic lights, excessive speed limit variations etc
 
I agree - speed does NOT kill. If that were true then the Germans on their autobahns would be dropping like flies.

It is inappropriate speed that kills. Is 50kph too slow for some suburban roads? - certainly. But 50kph may be way too fast in the rain & fog on a dark night in an area where pedestrians are running across the road.
 
Rolled out to traffic blackspots. This was the justification for fixed speed cameras, how many traffic blackspots do we have? And what determines a traffic blackspot?

It's interesting to note that fixed speed cameras have signage as a reminder that the area is a blackspot. Yet the new safety cameras (speed & redlight) have no such signage nor these new contraptions.

If they do not want to 'advertise' their locations, perhaps they can give us a hint with signage to advise areas that are considered blackspots something along the lines of - Blackspot Area - Mobile Speed Cameras Operate in this Area.

People can bang on about, 'if you don't speed then you want get caught however I have driven in Melbourne and although they do not sign post their cameras the speed limits applied to most areas are consistent with the road and traffic conditions.

In NSW there appears to be a trend to slow down traffic. There are a plethora of speed signs over relatively short distances with no change to the road or traffic conditions. Uncertain of the speed limit some drivers dawdle along 20 or more k's under the limit while those behind get frustrated and end up taking risks to get past.

In addition the tollways are a joke, being little more than paid parking during peaks. As soon as there is any traffic flow you can be assured that one of these mobile speed cameras will be in place.

The state government can't get their act together to claim federal funding so they look for other methods of raising cashflow.

Regards

Andrew
 
I agree - speed does NOT kill. If that were true then the Germans on their autobahns would be dropping like flies.

It is inappropriate speed that kills. Is 50kph too slow for some suburban roads? - certainly. But 50kph may be way too fast in the rain & fog on a dark night in an area where pedestrians are running across the road.

As taken from a Top Gear ediition, I think Jeremy Clarkson said:

It is not speed that kills.....It is the coming to an almighty stop that gets you!.

F
 
AS for up on the Sunny Coast, the commute to Brisbane on some days for work is just a nightmare.

You have guys speeding passed you. You have guys up your butt, trying to get through.

One P Plate wan#er the other day actually slowed down to 80KM/h on the Bruce Highway in the overtaking lane (110km/hr zone), to keep the speed with another person doing 80 in the slow lane (Dual carriagew way area), building up a long line of pis4ed off people trying to do the speed limit.

For having worked on road projects, and also having a work colleague get hit by a car and die in roadworks, I think you either do the speed, or suffer the consequences.

The red and white speed signs on the side of the roads are regulatory signs, and as such should be obeyed.

If people want to say it is another revenue generator, well good on them. It should go to the increase in salary for police officers or pay for other police funding / campaigns, even setup up more police beats, etc, etc. The police are needing more resources to help keep this country a better and safer place to live.

F
 
Enforcement of speed limits on suburban roads is one thing, but I believe that some of the speed limits on good standard, modern freeways (outside metro areas) are too low. The Hume should be 120 or 130kmh limit.

Roads safety campaigns should be targeted at bad driving practises such us tailgating, RH lane hogs, fatigue, mobile phone use etc, where they will make a difference to the road toll.
 
Regarding the comparison with German autobahns, here's an excerpt from
Common Urban Myths About Transport


"In a common variation on this myth, the road lobby points to the lower road toll per capita in Germany, a country generously provided with non-speed-restricted autobahns. It is certainly true that, according to the OECD's International Road Traffic and Accident Database (IRTAD), Germany's road toll of 8.5 per 100,000 population is lower than Australia's road toll of 9 per 100,000 population. But the real reason for this is that Germans simply do not drive as much as we do (even though they own just as many cars). Sure enough, if one goes to the IRTAD figures for deaths per billion vehicle kilometres (a better measure of actual exposure risk), one gets the opposite story: Germany's toll of 11.3 per billion veh-km actually exceeds Australia's toll of 9.1 per billion veh-km.

The only OECD countries with a lower fatality risk than Australia (whether per person or per vehicle kilometre) are the Scandinavian countries, the Netherlands and Britain - all of which have high use of public transport, walking and cycling, along with road safety policies that focus on driver behaviour rather than expansion of limited-access roads.

In summary, empirical evidence both from Melbourne and overseas confirms that road-building leads to higher traffic volumes and hence more crashes, while on the other hand countries with higher public transport use than Australia tend to have a lower per-capita road toll as well."
 
The state government can't get their act together to claim federal funding so they look for other methods of raising cashflow.

If you don't want the state govt to get this money DON'T SPEED. I for one are not at liberty to facts and figures of every state as to whether the volume of speed cameras is a direct link to reduction in deaths on roads, however what I do believe is that 1 death on our roads is one death to many. If this is a way of slowing people down then I don't care where they put them. There is such a thing as responsibility and although luckily I have never been directly effected by a speeding driver I wonder why we have so many people that want to break the law.

Laws and rules are in place for a reason, if you break them then there is a penalty. If the speed limit is 60kmh then you travel at or below this figure ( preferably below).

Jezza
 
Hi Jezza

Thats not the point of the argument

The point is that unmarked camers do not not change driver behaviour.................so why use them ?

ta
rolf

PS, im often accused of "driving Miss Daisy", so im not
 
Speeding vs Revenue Raising

The state government claims that the intention is to target blackspots. One must assume that they have identified blackspots, and that speed has been the major contributing factor as opposed to poor road quality, maintenance or other factors. If speed is not the major contributing factor then the other factors need to be the focus of any campaign.

If areas are known to be blackspots due to excessive speed then sure have speed cameras, but also advertise their presence. If road safety is the main concern then warning people to slow down will lower the risk here and now at the blackspot, not in three weeks when the fine appears.

Penalise people for speeding however if the road is safely travelled at 70 km/h then make the limit 70 km/h don't make it 50 km/h.

The accuracy of the new mobile speed cameras also bring into question the motives of the government as they have an accuracy higher than required by the Australian Standard. In essence you can be travelling 55 km/h while your speedo shows 50 km/h and you have no recourse.

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/LegislativeInstrumentCompilation1.nsf/0/F3E9920BE1FC56A5CA257257001E1849/$file/ADR1800comp1FINALFRLI.pdf

These are some of the reasons why people are skeptical about the motives for introducing more covert speed cameras.

Regards

Andrew
 
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Regarding the comparison with German autobahns, here's an excerpt from
Common Urban Myths About Transport


"In a common variation on this myth, the road lobby points to the lower road toll per capita in Germany, a country generously provided with non-speed-restricted autobahns. It is certainly true that, according to the OECD's International Road Traffic and Accident Database (IRTAD), Germany's road toll of 8.5 per 100,000 population is lower than Australia's road toll of 9 per 100,000 population. But the real reason for this is that Germans simply do not drive as much as we do (even though they own just as many cars). Sure enough, if one goes to the IRTAD figures for deaths per billion vehicle kilometres (a better measure of actual exposure risk), one gets the opposite story: Germany's toll of 11.3 per billion veh-km actually exceeds Australia's toll of 9.1 per billion veh-km.

The only OECD countries with a lower fatality risk than Australia (whether per person or per vehicle kilometre) are the Scandinavian countries, the Netherlands and Britain - all of which have high use of public transport, walking and cycling, along with road safety policies that focus on driver behaviour rather than expansion of limited-access roads.

In summary, empirical evidence both from Melbourne and overseas confirms that road-building leads to higher traffic volumes and hence more crashes, while on the other hand countries with higher public transport use than Australia tend to have a lower per-capita road toll as well."

As always there are "facts" but what meanings we can attribute them are variable due to context

I suppose if we had Indonesia, PNG, NZ, China, Malaysia driving on our roads to get to each other countries our figures would be a little different.

ta
rolf
 
Rolf

The point of them is wherever you are and there is another car within 1km ( this is there maximum radar detection) of you, then you are not to know whether it is a speed camera car or not. If it doesn't change driver behavior then those whos bahavior it does not change can continue proping up the coffers of the state govt when they pay there fines or worse still be a problem on our roads. I feel for the other family members when someone dies due to a accident and especially I feel for the other they may injure or worse still kill. I feel very little simpathy for the driver themselves.

Jezza
 
Hi Jezza

I thinkwe both want the same thing, but have a different idea as to how the people shouldgo about it

The said driver receiving a ticket 3 weeks will not change their behaviour during those 3 weeks.................

A camera booking someone for 140 ks in a 60 zone is just plain dumb and morally wrong. The majority fatal crash stats where speed is the major factor dont come from ma and pa doing a "bit" over the limit, which is the target fodder for the camera crowd.

A marked or unmarked car with a human writing the ticket more likely will change that drivers behaviour and in fact get them off the road there and then.

If the govs are serious about reducing SPEED related incidents then they should (MUST ??) use the most effective detterent, not the most cost effective.

See, when I was a young fella, Highway partol cars, marked an unmarked where common place. You would generally see a car every 20 or 30 ks on the road

These days................I suspect the relative numbers of kilometres of patrol car vs other road users is likely one tenth that if not worse. Would make for very interesting statistics

ta
rolf
 
Germany, a country generously provided with non-speed-restricted autobahns ... if one goes to the IRTAD figures for deaths per billion vehicle kilometres (a better measure of actual exposure risk), one gets the opposite story: Germany's toll of 11.3 per billion veh-km actually exceeds Australia's toll of 9.1 per billion veh-km.
A nice misrepresentation of the real situation: talk specifically about autobahns then give figures for all roads. But then, what would you expect from an organisation with a barrow to push.

Also, those figures appear to be from around 2000, when the figures were 11.3 and 9.3 respectively. For 2008 they were 6.49 (Germany) and 6.51 (Australia). Source here (PDF), table 4, page 13.

And if we look a bit closer at figures from 2005, as given on Wikipedia:

Autobahn Death Rate: 3.0
Other Road Death Rate: 10.0
Total Death Rate: 7.8

It's also noted there:

A 2005 study by the German Federal Interior Ministry (Bundesministerium des Innern) indicated that Autobahn sections with unrestricted speed have the same crash record as sections with speed limits.
Assuming the above figures have decreased on all roads by a similar percentage up to 2008, then the figure for autobahn deaths in 2008 would be about 2.5.

So maybe Germany really is blessed with non-speed-restricted autobahns.

GP
 
those whos bahavior it does not change can ... still be a problem on our roads.
On the gross assumption that they were ever a problem in the first place.

I feel for the other family members when someone dies due to a accident and especially I feel for the other they may injure or worse still kill.
Totally irrelevant emotional propaganda. No one likes deaths on the roads or anywhere else, but this sort of rubbish doesn't add anything constructive to the debate.

GP
 
Penalise people for speeding however if the road is safely travelled at 70 km/h then make the limit 70 km/h don't make it 50 km/h.

Generally, you don't increase road speeds on existing carriageways, apart from highways and freeways, after considerable testing has been carried out.

Road speeds are a factor of the geometry of the road, the sighting distance, curvature and super elevation, and even road surface, and will be designed at a certain regulatory road speed in the conceptual and preliminary stages of a design / project.

Too many factors involved to simply increase speeds......Just think if this is the case, the local authority increases the speed of a particular section of road......one day someone has an accident. Who would be responsible. The government would get sued, especially if the design was to cater for a lower speed.

In saying this, however, I do know some roads that have had there speeds increased, but this resulted in realignment and increasing super elevation on slight bend. (all at the tax payers cost)

Cheers,

F
 
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For everyone that's whinging about getting done speeding, here's an idea...how about you all live in the one city, we'll have no road rules what so ever and you can go nuts...oh, and you will not have any emergency services to pick your body parts after your inevitable crashes...:mad:
 
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