I will post a brief description of the issues and questions first and then a longer history to explain the situation better. We are due to move out in 4 weeks and I just want an idea of what sort of crap fight we are in for as we have never had to deal with VCAT before
In our current rental (Vic) there is damage to the tiles in the bathroom and laundry caused by a stump problem, there is a line of tiles (7 in total) that cracked when we had a run of hot days and you can now feel the floor movement underneath when you walk on them, the glass splashback in the kitchen also cracked at the same time, on the exterior wall behind the splashback there is a clear crack in the brickwork that runs from the ground until mid way up the house with a matching crack running from the ground to just beneath the bathroom window. The PM says the damage was not on the condition report therefore she believes we are liable, I reported the issue by phone when I first noticed the cracking tiles as it wasn’t really a maintenance request so there is no record of it. The LL has told me he does not have the money to fix the foundations so if he can get some or our entire bond he is willing to try as the PM has told him that VCAT will side with him as there is no record of the issue being reported.
If they apply to VCAT to keep our bond am I going to have to get a building inspection to prove the issue is with the house foundations or will photos of the exterior damage be sufficient?
Will VCAT hold it against us that there is no record of the issue being reported?
We were served a 60 day notice to vacate as the LL’s Aunt was supposed to move in, she is no longer moving in and the house is back up for lease (the long version is below). According to the Consumer Affairs website they are not supposed to re-let the property until they get a VCAT ruling or 6 months form the end of our lease, when I asked the PM about it she laughed it off and said there is no such rule and even if there was VCAT will do nothing as it is the LL’s right to ask tenants to leave. I have no problem with them serving the notice at the time his Aunt was supposed to move in and we had already planned to move, we were aware from the start that the notice was not really valid as the Aunt does not reside with the LL presently so if we wanted to fight it we could have but chose not to, but now with the PM making threats about VCAT and them seeking not only the bond but also compensation I am pretty annoyed and am wondering if we should pre-empt their claim with ours so that we don’t seem to be retaliating. On the other hand though I do not want to punish what has been a good LL just because the current PM is a cow.
Is there a way for the PM to get a kick in the pants without actually penalising the LL?
Should we wait to file until after we move out? If we do will VCAT see it as retaliation for them seeking the bond?
What could we seek compensation for if we chose to go ahead with the claim?
They want to bring prospective tenants through on Monday & Wednesday, I agreed even though to be honest it is a pain as we have relatives staying for the week and the house is a pig sty with the piles of items and clothes to be donated to the Salvos, go to the tip, boxes everywhere etc. I suggested that maybe we could agree on a time during the week that suited everybody so that both lots of tenants come through together, that was shrugged off with a comment as long as she gave us 24 hours notice they could enter anyway. I commented that when we last rented 12 years the PM and I agreed on a time during the week and all tenants were bought through in the same 30 min period each week in the 3 weeks leading up to us vacating. She told me that it is at the new tenants convenience to when they come through. Previously when we rented I thought the rule was that tenant were only shown through in the last 14 days of the tenancy.
Am I crazy or were new tenants only supposed to be shown through in the last 14 days? When did this change if it isn't a figment of my imagination?
Should written notice be served or is a message on the answering machine sufficient?
Is is unreasonable to suggest a time so all people come through together only once a week?
The more the PM pushes the boundaries the more I am pushing back and am at the stage where I am going to demand that all rules be followed to the letter of the law with no flexibility given, even if it to the detriment of getting our bond back.
Thanks in advance for any advice
From a newbie
**** HISTORY *****.
We have been tenants at our current property since June 2008, for the first 2 years we had a great relationship with the PM and LL. Any repairs that needed doing were scheduled straight away, the LL carried them all out himself so we saw and spoke to him a few times over the 2 years. Due to the good relationship we both had a bit of flexibility. When we moved in we were assured the property would not be put up for sale as our previous rental was placed on the market the day after we signed our lease and to be honest it was annoying as some sales agents do not care about the tenants’ rights and just ride roughshod over them. Anyway after 6 months our current rental was placed on the market the PM asked us to sign a 12 months lease as the house was being marketed as a IP, we spoke to the LL and said we would not sign again while the property was on the market as we wanted to leave if the sales agents were being a pain. He agreed to leave us on a month to month basis so we were all happy. To cut a long story short the sales agents (the principal agents wife) constantly breeched our rights the worst one showing up on our doorstep on a Saturday morning insisting that they needed to bring a buyer through in 3 hours as he only had one day in town and had travelled 400km to see a different property but our house was better suited. I agreed after a stern talking to the agent as I knew the LL was desperate to sell due to a change in work, they then came back 1 hour before the inspection as they did not have a key. Anyway after her going to get a key cut and returning my set we left and returned to the property after 1 hour only for the agent let herself in 2 hours after the agreed upon time and not see my issue even though we were clearly home as the car was on the driveway, TV on etc. The buyer walked in lounge room took a look asked me what I paid per week in rent, turned the agents and said you know this is not what we wanted why show me the property and walked out, all up he was here less than 2 mins. In the 2 years only 5 prospective buyers were shown through and they had 4 no shows so we stayed as we could leave with 28 days notice and were looking to buy ourselves so we were not tied into a fixed lease.
After that incident we rang the principal agent he brushed us off and the PM went into bat for us and told them it was not good enough etc and recommended for us to put it in writing. That of course soured ours and her relationship with the agency. So skip to Dec last year and we were due for our 6 monthly inspection, we received notice on Friday from a new PM (dated on Monday, post marked on Friday though) that they would be carrying out the inspection on the following Monday, I rang as said why we were happy for them to carry out the inspection but that more notice should have been given, she insisted that she had posted the letter on the Monday morning therefore she gave us enough notice to cover the 2 day mailing, I just let it roll as she is quite young and new to PMing.
The LL chose to attend the inspection and started topush that obviously we must like the property as we stayed so long so we should buy it and he would offer us a good deal. We declined and told them we were currently negotiating a contract of sale on another property and were due to settle in mid March but were planning on ending the tenancy at the start if April as we wanted to paint and sand floors etc before moving in. He then commented that he needed to take down the For Sale sign on his way out as the house had been off the market for 5 months now and he had asked the agent to remove the sign numerous times. When I pointed out that we had a buyer through about 6 weeks previously he was not happy and had a bit of a nark as at the PM, he then asked me how the sales agents treated us and I told him of a couple of the incidents and that was the first he had heard of them and he thought they were behaving. About 2 hours after the inspection both the PM and the principal agent rang to apologise for these incidents and I thought that was the end of it.
About a week later the PM rang us and told us that we needed to sign a new 6 months lease or we would be served notice to vacate. After about a week of back and forth between us with us saying we would not sign as we were now committed to buy in mid March, the PM served us a 60 day notice to vacate. Our tenancy was now due to terminate about 4 weeks before our settlement, we wrote to them and asked to be allowed to stay until 5 days after our settlement, the offer was refuted with we would be allowed to stay only if we signed the new 6 month lease. So we went back to our vendor and asked if we could settle earlier, the earliest they could bring settlement forward was 2 weeks with us agreeing to them not needing to clean the property and us hiring a cleaner to clean our rental on the day after we moved with this we got our leaving date down to 2 weeks after the end of the 60 day notice period. We asked for an extension again and were told that we needed to be out on the date or they would evict us the next day. By this time I was very annoyed by the lack of flexibility so sent a letter saying that we would be out 2 weeks late and we could not leave any earlier, they rang and told us they would apply to VCAT at our cost and seek compensation, I just said do whatever they wished, currently the wait for a VCAT hearing is about 6 weeks here and we would be out by then and if they applied they it would not cost us any fees. She told us they would seek lost rent, when I pointed out that they wouldn’t lose any as we would still be paying she huffed and hung up.
Now onto the notice, they 60 day notice was issued as his Aunt was due to move into the house, when I rang and queried where the Aunt currently resided she said the Aunts lease was due to end the second week of March when I pointed out that the Aunt had to actually reside with LL for the notice to be valid she told me I was wrong, I told her to check with Consumer Affairs and we would be happy to let the notice stand unchallenged if the LL agreed for us to stay the extra 2 weeks (I know it was blackmail) She rang back about an hour later and was insistent that her info was correct, she had checked with VCAT when I sent a link with the info she replied with an email stating that she was wrong and the Aunt did live with the LL so the notice was valid. Once again I stated that we would not be out until 2 weeks after the notice but as the Aunts lease ran out 6 days after we handed the keys back that it should be enough time for her to move in. The PM replied that she would no longer communicate with me as I did not listen, I was fine with that.
Two weeks ago we a had major storm and the roof in our rental started to leak as it was after hours (approx 7pm) and I had no emergency contact details for the PM (only the previous PM and the phone number was out of service) I rang the principal agent and asked her to deal with it, the PM rang me back and was insistent that I should tarp the roof, I refused and said that I would place a bucket under the leak and she should contact the LL to see what he wanted to do with the roof. After about 30 mins the LL turned up to tarp the roof so we got to speaking. He asked why we were refusing to leave and when I said that we only wanted the extra 2 weeks he was astonished as the PM had told him that we flat out refused to leave and we were causing trouble. He said he would just double check when his Aunt needed to be out of her rental but 2 weeks should not be an issue. I then asked if it was so urgent that we got out why the PM kept insisting that we could stay if we signed a new 6 month lease and he commented that he was clear that he never offered us a further 6 months as he wanted to minimise the disruption to his Aunt.
Last week the switch in the switch board for the electric hot water started to act up, about every 3 days it would not heat overnight so I put in a repair request in person with the PM and the admin assistant standing guard (it was actually quite funny) on Friday arvo, along with a request to repair the dishwasher as the pump had burnt out that morning. When I did not hear back I just thought he would not fix the dishwasher as then he did not have to maintain it for his Aunt and as I could heat the water during the day it was not an urgent repair. Yesterday (Thursday) I still had not heard back so I rang and asked when the repairs would take place as the hot water was annoying as it would never fully heat unless I flipped it to day rate and I was now using more hot water as I no longer had a dishwasher, she denied that I had put a request in, after talking to the admin assistant she told me it must have been lost in shuffle between the admin desk and hers even though I handed the request directly to her, once again I just gritted my teeth and accepted it.
This afternoon I receive a phone call to say that the LL will repair the stuff on Monday I said fine and commented that I had noticed the house was now up for lease again and she must have received permission from VCAT fast to re tenant before the 6 month exclusion period, she told me that there was no such rule. Once again I sent her the relevant link and she says it does not apply as the aunt was going to move in when the notice was issued so they can re tenant the property without going through VCAT as the circumstances changed after the notice was server. Consumer Affairs has told us that they cannot even advertise the property until they get a ruling from VCAT that they can re-tenant the property, she then advised us that we can apply to VCAT to either stay (not interested) or seek compensation for the hassle of having to move.
The principal agent has stated that they are happy with the PM’s results and when I replied that she gets the results because she bullies and breeches tenant’s rights she just laughed it off and said well they are still results so I don’t see the PM getting a lecture from her boss. So in a nutshell 2 years of a great relationship between the LL and us has gone to crap because of a crap PM and now we are both annoyed with each other and unwilling to bend on the issues mentioned above.
In our current rental (Vic) there is damage to the tiles in the bathroom and laundry caused by a stump problem, there is a line of tiles (7 in total) that cracked when we had a run of hot days and you can now feel the floor movement underneath when you walk on them, the glass splashback in the kitchen also cracked at the same time, on the exterior wall behind the splashback there is a clear crack in the brickwork that runs from the ground until mid way up the house with a matching crack running from the ground to just beneath the bathroom window. The PM says the damage was not on the condition report therefore she believes we are liable, I reported the issue by phone when I first noticed the cracking tiles as it wasn’t really a maintenance request so there is no record of it. The LL has told me he does not have the money to fix the foundations so if he can get some or our entire bond he is willing to try as the PM has told him that VCAT will side with him as there is no record of the issue being reported.
If they apply to VCAT to keep our bond am I going to have to get a building inspection to prove the issue is with the house foundations or will photos of the exterior damage be sufficient?
Will VCAT hold it against us that there is no record of the issue being reported?
We were served a 60 day notice to vacate as the LL’s Aunt was supposed to move in, she is no longer moving in and the house is back up for lease (the long version is below). According to the Consumer Affairs website they are not supposed to re-let the property until they get a VCAT ruling or 6 months form the end of our lease, when I asked the PM about it she laughed it off and said there is no such rule and even if there was VCAT will do nothing as it is the LL’s right to ask tenants to leave. I have no problem with them serving the notice at the time his Aunt was supposed to move in and we had already planned to move, we were aware from the start that the notice was not really valid as the Aunt does not reside with the LL presently so if we wanted to fight it we could have but chose not to, but now with the PM making threats about VCAT and them seeking not only the bond but also compensation I am pretty annoyed and am wondering if we should pre-empt their claim with ours so that we don’t seem to be retaliating. On the other hand though I do not want to punish what has been a good LL just because the current PM is a cow.
Is there a way for the PM to get a kick in the pants without actually penalising the LL?
Should we wait to file until after we move out? If we do will VCAT see it as retaliation for them seeking the bond?
What could we seek compensation for if we chose to go ahead with the claim?
They want to bring prospective tenants through on Monday & Wednesday, I agreed even though to be honest it is a pain as we have relatives staying for the week and the house is a pig sty with the piles of items and clothes to be donated to the Salvos, go to the tip, boxes everywhere etc. I suggested that maybe we could agree on a time during the week that suited everybody so that both lots of tenants come through together, that was shrugged off with a comment as long as she gave us 24 hours notice they could enter anyway. I commented that when we last rented 12 years the PM and I agreed on a time during the week and all tenants were bought through in the same 30 min period each week in the 3 weeks leading up to us vacating. She told me that it is at the new tenants convenience to when they come through. Previously when we rented I thought the rule was that tenant were only shown through in the last 14 days of the tenancy.
Am I crazy or were new tenants only supposed to be shown through in the last 14 days? When did this change if it isn't a figment of my imagination?
Should written notice be served or is a message on the answering machine sufficient?
Is is unreasonable to suggest a time so all people come through together only once a week?
The more the PM pushes the boundaries the more I am pushing back and am at the stage where I am going to demand that all rules be followed to the letter of the law with no flexibility given, even if it to the detriment of getting our bond back.
Thanks in advance for any advice
From a newbie
**** HISTORY *****.
We have been tenants at our current property since June 2008, for the first 2 years we had a great relationship with the PM and LL. Any repairs that needed doing were scheduled straight away, the LL carried them all out himself so we saw and spoke to him a few times over the 2 years. Due to the good relationship we both had a bit of flexibility. When we moved in we were assured the property would not be put up for sale as our previous rental was placed on the market the day after we signed our lease and to be honest it was annoying as some sales agents do not care about the tenants’ rights and just ride roughshod over them. Anyway after 6 months our current rental was placed on the market the PM asked us to sign a 12 months lease as the house was being marketed as a IP, we spoke to the LL and said we would not sign again while the property was on the market as we wanted to leave if the sales agents were being a pain. He agreed to leave us on a month to month basis so we were all happy. To cut a long story short the sales agents (the principal agents wife) constantly breeched our rights the worst one showing up on our doorstep on a Saturday morning insisting that they needed to bring a buyer through in 3 hours as he only had one day in town and had travelled 400km to see a different property but our house was better suited. I agreed after a stern talking to the agent as I knew the LL was desperate to sell due to a change in work, they then came back 1 hour before the inspection as they did not have a key. Anyway after her going to get a key cut and returning my set we left and returned to the property after 1 hour only for the agent let herself in 2 hours after the agreed upon time and not see my issue even though we were clearly home as the car was on the driveway, TV on etc. The buyer walked in lounge room took a look asked me what I paid per week in rent, turned the agents and said you know this is not what we wanted why show me the property and walked out, all up he was here less than 2 mins. In the 2 years only 5 prospective buyers were shown through and they had 4 no shows so we stayed as we could leave with 28 days notice and were looking to buy ourselves so we were not tied into a fixed lease.
After that incident we rang the principal agent he brushed us off and the PM went into bat for us and told them it was not good enough etc and recommended for us to put it in writing. That of course soured ours and her relationship with the agency. So skip to Dec last year and we were due for our 6 monthly inspection, we received notice on Friday from a new PM (dated on Monday, post marked on Friday though) that they would be carrying out the inspection on the following Monday, I rang as said why we were happy for them to carry out the inspection but that more notice should have been given, she insisted that she had posted the letter on the Monday morning therefore she gave us enough notice to cover the 2 day mailing, I just let it roll as she is quite young and new to PMing.
The LL chose to attend the inspection and started topush that obviously we must like the property as we stayed so long so we should buy it and he would offer us a good deal. We declined and told them we were currently negotiating a contract of sale on another property and were due to settle in mid March but were planning on ending the tenancy at the start if April as we wanted to paint and sand floors etc before moving in. He then commented that he needed to take down the For Sale sign on his way out as the house had been off the market for 5 months now and he had asked the agent to remove the sign numerous times. When I pointed out that we had a buyer through about 6 weeks previously he was not happy and had a bit of a nark as at the PM, he then asked me how the sales agents treated us and I told him of a couple of the incidents and that was the first he had heard of them and he thought they were behaving. About 2 hours after the inspection both the PM and the principal agent rang to apologise for these incidents and I thought that was the end of it.
About a week later the PM rang us and told us that we needed to sign a new 6 months lease or we would be served notice to vacate. After about a week of back and forth between us with us saying we would not sign as we were now committed to buy in mid March, the PM served us a 60 day notice to vacate. Our tenancy was now due to terminate about 4 weeks before our settlement, we wrote to them and asked to be allowed to stay until 5 days after our settlement, the offer was refuted with we would be allowed to stay only if we signed the new 6 month lease. So we went back to our vendor and asked if we could settle earlier, the earliest they could bring settlement forward was 2 weeks with us agreeing to them not needing to clean the property and us hiring a cleaner to clean our rental on the day after we moved with this we got our leaving date down to 2 weeks after the end of the 60 day notice period. We asked for an extension again and were told that we needed to be out on the date or they would evict us the next day. By this time I was very annoyed by the lack of flexibility so sent a letter saying that we would be out 2 weeks late and we could not leave any earlier, they rang and told us they would apply to VCAT at our cost and seek compensation, I just said do whatever they wished, currently the wait for a VCAT hearing is about 6 weeks here and we would be out by then and if they applied they it would not cost us any fees. She told us they would seek lost rent, when I pointed out that they wouldn’t lose any as we would still be paying she huffed and hung up.
Now onto the notice, they 60 day notice was issued as his Aunt was due to move into the house, when I rang and queried where the Aunt currently resided she said the Aunts lease was due to end the second week of March when I pointed out that the Aunt had to actually reside with LL for the notice to be valid she told me I was wrong, I told her to check with Consumer Affairs and we would be happy to let the notice stand unchallenged if the LL agreed for us to stay the extra 2 weeks (I know it was blackmail) She rang back about an hour later and was insistent that her info was correct, she had checked with VCAT when I sent a link with the info she replied with an email stating that she was wrong and the Aunt did live with the LL so the notice was valid. Once again I stated that we would not be out until 2 weeks after the notice but as the Aunts lease ran out 6 days after we handed the keys back that it should be enough time for her to move in. The PM replied that she would no longer communicate with me as I did not listen, I was fine with that.
Two weeks ago we a had major storm and the roof in our rental started to leak as it was after hours (approx 7pm) and I had no emergency contact details for the PM (only the previous PM and the phone number was out of service) I rang the principal agent and asked her to deal with it, the PM rang me back and was insistent that I should tarp the roof, I refused and said that I would place a bucket under the leak and she should contact the LL to see what he wanted to do with the roof. After about 30 mins the LL turned up to tarp the roof so we got to speaking. He asked why we were refusing to leave and when I said that we only wanted the extra 2 weeks he was astonished as the PM had told him that we flat out refused to leave and we were causing trouble. He said he would just double check when his Aunt needed to be out of her rental but 2 weeks should not be an issue. I then asked if it was so urgent that we got out why the PM kept insisting that we could stay if we signed a new 6 month lease and he commented that he was clear that he never offered us a further 6 months as he wanted to minimise the disruption to his Aunt.
Last week the switch in the switch board for the electric hot water started to act up, about every 3 days it would not heat overnight so I put in a repair request in person with the PM and the admin assistant standing guard (it was actually quite funny) on Friday arvo, along with a request to repair the dishwasher as the pump had burnt out that morning. When I did not hear back I just thought he would not fix the dishwasher as then he did not have to maintain it for his Aunt and as I could heat the water during the day it was not an urgent repair. Yesterday (Thursday) I still had not heard back so I rang and asked when the repairs would take place as the hot water was annoying as it would never fully heat unless I flipped it to day rate and I was now using more hot water as I no longer had a dishwasher, she denied that I had put a request in, after talking to the admin assistant she told me it must have been lost in shuffle between the admin desk and hers even though I handed the request directly to her, once again I just gritted my teeth and accepted it.
This afternoon I receive a phone call to say that the LL will repair the stuff on Monday I said fine and commented that I had noticed the house was now up for lease again and she must have received permission from VCAT fast to re tenant before the 6 month exclusion period, she told me that there was no such rule. Once again I sent her the relevant link and she says it does not apply as the aunt was going to move in when the notice was issued so they can re tenant the property without going through VCAT as the circumstances changed after the notice was server. Consumer Affairs has told us that they cannot even advertise the property until they get a ruling from VCAT that they can re-tenant the property, she then advised us that we can apply to VCAT to either stay (not interested) or seek compensation for the hassle of having to move.
The principal agent has stated that they are happy with the PM’s results and when I replied that she gets the results because she bullies and breeches tenant’s rights she just laughed it off and said well they are still results so I don’t see the PM getting a lecture from her boss. So in a nutshell 2 years of a great relationship between the LL and us has gone to crap because of a crap PM and now we are both annoyed with each other and unwilling to bend on the issues mentioned above.
. If the agent is being a cow, I would do nothing to assist her.
